Nicolas Coppola, gay catholic who married, is banned from church duties, was this right?

[Soren_Itenu]

The problem with homosexuality is that it’s rooted in misunderstood filia, not eros.

Men don’t know how to be friends anymore.

I tell my best friend I love him, because I do. That’s filia. But men have lost that, so they don’t know how to love other men without bringing sex into it.

Real manlove is David and Jonathan, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Damon and Pithious, Darmok and Jalaad.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Are you being sarcastic? Of course any “partnership” that involves two people of the same sex holding themselves out to society as a couple is sinful. The word “domestic” means that they have set up a joint household.

Why is a joint household between two people of the same sex?

Define “couple”

The vast majority of sexual abuse cases by priests involves homosexual pedophilia, boys between 8 and 18. It is a homosexual issue primarily.

If you think an adult sexually abusing/raping an 18 year old is paedophilia you have no idea what paedophilia is.

I think you are right. I always think of SSA as something like a “thirst” for alcohol. It too has a psychological basis Maybe loneliness, or a feeling of deprivation. Alcoholism is frequently found among priests. Maybe homosexuality is as much owing to an inability to connect, except on a superficial basis, with the opposite sex as a lack of physical attraction. But many homosexuals–perhaps the majority–are bisexual, are maybe they have the need to find persons with certain qualities. But life is hard. We forget that most people suffer deeps traumas at some point in their lives , and they will do whatever gives them a sense of healing.

Alcoholism is the result of psychological not biological need almost invariably stemming from stress and I think we can agree the priesthood is a rather stressful job, same reason why so many celebrities can hooked on drugs, they just can’t cope with the stress.

Yes, clearly the stereotypical gays with tons of girl friends are gay because they have no idea how to connect with women.

Bisexuality is rarer amongst men than homosexuality however the oppose is true for women.

Have you ever considered that some are lonely because they want to be loved just like heterosexuals for the same reasons except by the same sex instead of the opposite sex?

The problem with homosexuality is that it’s rooted in misunderstood filia, not eros.

Men don’t know how to be friends anymore.

I tell my best friend I love him, because I do. That’s filia. But men have lost that, so they don’t know how to love other men without bringing sex into it.

Real manlove is David and Jonathan, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Damon and Pithious, Darmok and Jalaad.

It is clear that there were in fact homosexuals even when men actually knew men can love men in a non-sexual manner.

Hey man, no love for Blessed Newman and Ambrose St. John?

 

[Soren_Itenu]

Yeah, those two, too!

Btw, philia and Pythious. Misspelled! Derp.

Yeah, the sodomy of Sodom was still misunderstood philia. Just because some men understand proper manlove doesn’t mean all men do.

Today or in the past, it’s the same. It’s perverse.

 

[Mariem2]

OK, I’m convinced that God, in hindsight, regrets destroying Sodom because the LGBT lobby have convinced Him that Lot didn’t pass on the message that the poor Sodomites were only following His advice to love one another.

I suppose we should expect a Voice from Heaven instructing us that everything we’ve been told thus far is wrong and from now on each parish should have at least one priest of homosexual, bisexual, transexual and whatever other sexual orientation that’s hasn’t yet emerged from the closet? Will the Voice tell us that all these priests should be married as an example to us of the true meaning of love? Should they have designer babies with however many sperm/egg donors it takes to make them feel fulfilled? Will the Voice tell us that Paradise is meant for this world because Heaven isn’t worth the wait? Can anyone give me a hint as to when we might expect this new Revelation because I wouldn’t want to miss it?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Yeah, those two, too!

Btw, philia and Pythious. Misspelled! Derp.

Yeah, the sodomy of Sodom was still misunderstood philia. Just because some men understand proper manlove doesn’t mean all men do.

Today or in the past, it’s the same. It’s perverse.

Forcibly sodomizing males back then was a very common way to dehumanize males and in parts of the world are still used the same way. Sexual violence is a way of establish dominance and as much as we want to pretend it doesn’t happen in the US it does happen, even in the military. The word inhospitality can’t begin to describe the things that happened in Sodom, words like sadism and brutality describe it better.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

 

[90Domer]

Most seems to prefer older boys, so pedophile is not the right term. My guess is that most of the pedophiles are the boy friends of mothers with very young children.

You are correct that most of the sex abuse cases were with pubescent or especially post- pubescent boys and known as Ephebophilia.

With the recent Vatileaks, the Church acknowledged it had a homosexual priest problem. The book Good Bye Good Men** as detailed the problem. And as seen recently in Scotland, bishops and cardinals were involved in an elaborate network of protecting homosexual priests.

I think the 900 lb gorilla that few want to say is that there seems to be a large correlation between SSA men and Ephebophilia. There are countless examples of SSA men who have had sex with minors. Kevin Clash and Mia Farrow’s brother come to mind as two of the more recent. The group NAMBLA exists just for this purpose–and there is a reason for its existence.

I wish we could deny it was a homosexual priest problem, but nothing else explains it.

 

[90Domer]

I need to apologize here because I don’t have the foggiest idea of what SSA or its temptations entail, especially given the sex crazed world we live in. Thank you for pointing that out as a temptation. Honestly, we have mostly been immune to that because of our son. We rarely watch TV except for some favorite sports events (Notre Dame football gets prime billing), and most of what we do involves some type of therapy for my son.

So, I want to say is that, if I come off harsh, it is due to my personal flaws. But I will never compromise hoping that everyone gets to Heaven, and I will still strive to help as many people get there as I could.

God bless.

 

[Corki]

Why is a joint household between two people of the same sex?

Do you know of any proposed domestic partnership laws that involve a number different than 2 or that do** not **involve setting up a joint household?

Define “couple”

For the purposes of this thread, it would be two people who are involved in a personal or romantic relationship who identify themselves as such.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Do you know of any proposed domestic partnership laws that involve a number different than 2 or that do** not **involve setting up a joint household?

For the purposes of this thread, it would be two people who are involved in a personal or romantic relationship who identify themselves as such.

Why is two people of the same sex having a joint household immoral? I honestly don’t recall any Church teaching saying two men having a joint bank account is immoral.

 

[estesbob]

I disagree with this assessment completely. This relegates homosexuals to pedophiles this simply isn’t the case. There were plenty of cases of priests molesting little girls, but should we ban heterosexuals from the priesthood? No instead we should ban pedophiles from the priesthood. It’s unfortunate that the two completely unrelated concepts have become intertwined in this debate.

88% of the abuse was homosexual rape of post pubsecent boys.To deny the overwhelming homosexual element of the abuse its absurd .

 

[estesbob]

Why is two people of the same sex having a joint household immoral? I honestly don’t recall any Church teaching saying two men having a joint bank account is immoral.

It’s not They don’t. Nobody made such a claim. Now can we move back to the topic at hand.?

 

[stlcatholic86]

Rather than trying to post a response to each individual person I will try to clarify some misconceptions.

1. Statistically speaking most incidents of child molestation are a result of opposite sex relations and are often related.
2. This fact is further misleading because child molesters and those that are predispositioned to children as sex objects don’t have a specific sexual orientation. Thus these child molesting priests are inappropriately labeled as homosexual, because they simply aren’t.
3. The main reason there is a higher incident of child molestation among what appears to be homosexual type relations has more to do with church function than any perceived sexuality. Meaning child molesting priests usually have easier access to boys than girls. Even in the early 90s when I attended Catholic school the girls weren’t nearly involved in church activities as the boys were. In fact many times when we had to go in sex based groups the girls would go with the nuns and the boys would go with the deacon or priest.
4. Thus, one really should conclude that what the church should ban from the priesthood are people who are predispositioned to pedophillia or child molestors not homosexuals. Conflating the two is essentially suggesting that homosexuals are child molesters or at least more likely to be when this simply isn’t the case.

One other argument I will dispel is the concept that homosexuality is somehow based on the idea of previous trauma in life. It’s not, at least not that modern research would suggest. I have many friends that I have known for years that come from great households. My upbringing was pretty good as well. It just so happens that when other boys or girls started liking the other sex we had those same feelings only to our own sex.

 

[achmafooma]

Real manlove is David and Jonathan, Gilgamesh and Enkidu, Damon and Pithious, Darmok and Jalaad.

Off-topic, I know, but I have to applaud your sneaky TNG reference .

 

[adrift]

Priest molestation consisted of teenage males inappropriately labeled pediophilia. There is no evidence that these priest would molest females. hosemonkey is right to say it is homosexual.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Priest molestation consisted of teenage males inappropriately labeled pediophilia. There is no evidence that these priest would molest females. hosemonkey is right to say it is homosexual.

Yes you are correct pedophillia is the wrong term. It’s a child molestation problem NOT a homosexual problem. While not nearly as published there are many cases of priests molesting females as well. Please tell me how that is not a heterosexual problem, but priests molesting males is a homosexual problem? Simple its not a sexuality problem, but a molestation problem.

 

[jonathan_hili]

It’s certainly a difficult situation, especially since Mr Coppola seems very devout and loving in many ways. However, when a member of the Church not only publicly sins, but through his actions denies the teachings of the Church and encourages others to do so and cause scandal, I think some form of excommunication is necessary. It would be different if he were doing a lot of this in private and still upholding in public what the Church teaches regarding sexuality but in this situation, the bishop was certainly right to act.

In the early Church, sinners were made to confess and perform acts of penance in a very public and humiliating way, not because the Church wanted to make them feel bad but because sin was taken quite seriously.

I’m sure many will feel great pity for Mr Coppola; I do, and for his parish. It must be difficult to feel same-sex attraction and love for Christ and his Church at the same time, and wish to fulfill both fully. However, we need to control our desires as best as possible to conform to the Church’s teachings. I have great desires which I’m sure would make Mr Coppola blush, but I’m hardly going to commit them publicly (and if privately, God help me!) and then expect my standing in the Church to be a-okay.

This is the kind of story that makes me want to quote Chesterton:

The modern world is not evil; in some ways the modern world is far too good. It is full of wild and wasted virtues. When a religious scheme is shattered (as Christianity was shattered at the Reformation), it is not merely the vices that are let loose. The vices are, indeed, let loose, and they wander and do damage. But the virtues are let loose also; and the virtues wander more wildly, and the virtues do more terrible damage. The modern world is full of the old Christian virtues gone mad. The virtues have gone mad because they have been isolated from each other and are wandering alone. Thus some scientists care for truth; and their truth is pitiless. Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful.

 

[estesbob]

Yes you are correct pedophillia is the wrong term. It’s a child molestation problem NOT a homosexual problem. While not nearly as published there are many cases of priests molesting females as well. Please tell me how that is not a heterosexual problem, but priests molesting males is a homosexual problem? Simple its not a sexuality problem, but a molestation problem.

Actuay there werent Only about 10% of those molested were girls.

 

[Corki]

Why is two people of the same sex having a joint household immoral? I honestly don’t recall any Church teaching saying two men having a joint bank account is immoral.

You are losing me. Your original question was whether calling it a “domestic partnership” instead of a “marriage” would make it less immoral for two men to live together. That has nothing to do two men or women who are housemates or have joint finances.

There are no Church teachings against having same-sex room/housemates, sharing finances, etc. No one ever implied that.

 

[jonathan_hili]

I’m not going to get into a who’s life is harder. My point is as Christians we should lighten the burden for everyone together not add to it.

Yes, I agree.

What did Christ say: “For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” (Matt 11:30 RSV)

However, this means that we do have a yoke to bear - and this is Christ’s yoke: the commands of his Church.

The Church should definitely help to lighten burdens, but this is done through love, not through ignoring or neglecting the moral law. Ideally, the situation with Mr Coppola should have included a talk between himself, his pastor and the bishop, and the bishop explaining that he must separate from his partner and seek reconciliation, and that the Church would be there to help him by providing counselling and any other assistance.