Nicolas Coppola, gay catholic who married, is banned from church duties, was this right?

[Mariem2]

Oh for goodness sake. If you feel that strongly about it, start your own religion, appoint yourself pope and make all the rules you want. Your first converts can be the LGBT or whatever they call themselves and you can all be happy as pigs in the proverbial.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Oh for goodness sake. If you feel that strongly about it, start your own religion, appoint yourself pope and make all the rules you want. Your first converts can be the LGBT or whatever they call themselves and you can all be happy as pigs in the proverbial.

Yes because thats exactly what I am advocating.

 

[Mariem2]

It looks that way. That’s usually what happens when people think they know more than the Pope. You can even declare yourself infallible and talk about yourself and your fellow homosexuals for the rest of your life.

 

[stlcatholic86]

It looks that way. That’s usually what happens when people think they know more than the Pope. You can even declare yourself infallible and talk about yourself and your fellow homosexuals for the rest of your life.

Thanks for reducing me to my sexuality. Much appreciated.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

stlcatholic86:

The Church is hurting for Eucharist Ministers and Lectors and to condemn people because they don’t always follow the tenets of the faith is just silly and sends the message that these people are welcome to attend but must be silent. Is that really the message our Church should send?

It is better to have a smaller Church than a Church that countenances sin in its leaders. This isn’t a numbers game. It’s a matter of right and wrong.

The Church teaches that homosexual sex acts are wrong. Period.

Period.

Oh, just in case you don’t get it… Period.

Guess what I’m going to say next?

 

[Mariem2]

I didn’t reduce you to anything. You refuse to accept Church teaching on homosexual practices. We all sin from time to time but we don’t expect the Church to change the rules to turn sin into a virtue.

Nobody told us that getting to Heaven would be easy. We all are expected to carry our cross and enter by the narrow gate. Consider yourself lucky if same sex attraction is your biggest cross.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

I didn’t reduce you to anything. You refuse to accept Church teaching on homosexual practices. We all sin from time to time but we don’t expect the Church to change the rules to turn sin into a virtue.

This.

 

[stlcatholic86]

I didn’t reduce you to anything. You refuse to accept Church teaching on homosexual practices. We all sin from time to time but we don’t expect the Church to change the rules to turn sin into a virtue.

Nobody told us that getting to Heaven would be easy. We all are expected to carry our cross and enter by the narrow gate. Consider yourself lucky if same sex attraction is your biggest cross.

Actually you did, but no worries I’m not offended.

It’s only a burden as so much as society makes it one. It’s harder on some than others. I would also be careful using language such as “lucky” when discussing life burdens you don’t what people go through so suggesting homosexuality is a lesser burden than others might be true for some, but might not be for others just as any life burden.

 

[stlcatholic86]

It is better to have a smaller Church than a Church that countenances sin in its leaders. This isn’t a numbers game. It’s a matter of right and wrong.

The Church teaches that homosexual sex acts are wrong. Period.

Period.

Oh, just in case you don’t get it… Period.

Guess what I’m going to say next?

Yeah well you let me know how that works our for you having a smaller church not hearing the message of The Lord. I myself would subscribe to the large umbrella philosophy that its better for people to be in the circle hearing the message even if not all agree. Plus, things can change.

 

[Mariem2]

The bottom line is that you aren’t Pope and can’t change the rules. You can’t claim to be ignorant of the rules, so it’s down to you whether you follow them or not.

If you think the Church is ever going to allow same sex marriage, dream on.

 

[stlcatholic86]

The bottom line is that you aren’t Pope and can’t change the rules. You can’t claim to be ignorant of the rules, so it’s down to you whether you follow them or not.

If you think the Church is ever going to allow same sex marriage, dream on.

“You may say that I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.”

Truthfully I do not let rules get in the way of my relationship with Jesus Christ and God.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, stlcatholic, we’ll be saying some prayers for you. When I first started reading your posts I was not aware that you had a kind of ‘vested interest’ in that you yourself are ‘gay’, and so you are more sensitive to perceiving ‘criticism’ because you internalize comments and see them as ‘personal attacks’ when somebody does not agree with you. Certainly nobody here wishes you any ill (really) and nobody REJOICES at the idea that you’re suffering. . .but what more can we do? It is not “The Church” who 'makes up rules" but God who creates us and in His vision for loving us and helping us to love Him has given us guidance, and gives us the Church to keep on telling us what He KNOWS will lead us to Him. You really can’t expect God, who knows and loves you and has given you HIS authoritative HELP which comes THROUGH the Church, to suddenly declare that His judgment and help apply to everybody else ‘except gay people’, or ‘except stlcatholic’, who can totally disregard Him and be ‘better’ than the people who actually DO follow God?

It just doesn’t work that way. . .

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah well you let me know how that works our for you having a smaller church not hearing the message of The Lord. I myself would subscribe to the large umbrella philosophy that its better for people to be in the circle hearing the message even if not all agree. Plus, things can change.

If the alternative is to have a larger Church because the Church abdicates her duty and authority to teach and defend the truth and acts as if the truth is an opinion and respect means abandoning the teaching of right from wrong, then what kind of Church has been preserved? The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world…what sin is that? Who can sin, when there is no binding moral law? If there is no sin and no need of repentance, then what need is there of a Cross or baptism or any of the rest?

There are certain trade-offs that defeat the whole raison d’être of the Church, and selling off morality in order to please this interest group or that interest group–and do not think that only those with an inclination to homosexuality make the arguments you are making in defense of what some exception that some class of individuals want–is a trade-off not to be made. Let us face it, there are other mainstream denominations who have tried just that strategy, and it isn’t much working out for them. Even if it were “working” for them in terms of attracting bodies, it would be a lie and a betrayal of a trust.

An umbrella, however large, is only an umbrella if it does not let the rain through. When the rain comes, people want something that will keep them dry, as promised, and that is why the Church exists. If she does not give her children a place out of the rain of sin, then the umbrella may as well be folded up.

 

[EasterJoy]

“You may say that I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one.”

Truthfully I do not let rules get in the way of my relationship with Jesus Christ and God.

Full lyrics include:

*Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…

Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…*

You are not dreaming. You are deceived.

 

[EasterJoy]

The bottom line is that you aren’t Pope and can’t change the rules. You can’t claim to be ignorant of the rules, so it’s down to you whether you follow them or not.

If you think the Church is ever going to allow same sex marriage, dream on.

Let us be clear, though: The Pope does not have the authority to change moral law, either.

 

[stlcatholic86]

You are not dreaming. You are deceived.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.

 

[Soren_Itenu]

I’m sorry to say this, but stlcatholic86 has now joined several other recent posters who have made their heresies known on these forums, have obstinately refused in their pride to obey the Church’s moral teachings, and so now we must ignore them. It seems like a lot of heretics have made their way onto these forums recently. Let’s deal with them charitably, but once they start spreading their poison of heresy around, we must ignore them. They are trying to discourage others, and more importantly, they’re trying to undermine the teaching authority of the Church on moral matters. It’s time to ignore those who spout heresy on these forums. It’s time to stop arguing with them. It’s time to stop feeding them.

I recommend responding to all heretical posts by quoting the heretical matter and writing, “This is heresy. This is against the moral teaching of the Church.”

That’s all we can do, or these heretics will argue with orthodoxy forever as long as they have people feeding them.

Time to ignore them.

If we don’t point out their heresies, then other members who might not understand the Church’s teachings might think that these heretics are preaching actual Truth. It is therefore the charitable thing to the Body of Christ to point out very clearly when these members are saying heretical, Satanic things.

 

[stlcatholic86]

Well, stlcatholic, we’ll be saying some prayers for you. When I first started reading your posts I was not aware that you had a kind of ‘vested interest’ in that you yourself are ‘gay’, and so you are more sensitive to perceiving ‘criticism’ because you internalize comments and see them as ‘personal attacks’ when somebody does not agree with you. Certainly nobody here wishes you any ill (really) and nobody REJOICES at the idea that you’re suffering. . .but what more can we do? It is not “The Church” who 'makes up rules" but God who creates us and in His vision for loving us and helping us to love Him has given us guidance, and gives us the Church to keep on telling us what He KNOWS will lead us to Him. You really can’t expect God, who knows and loves you and has given you HIS authoritative HELP which comes THROUGH the Church, to suddenly declare that His judgment and help apply to everybody else ‘except gay people’, or ‘except stlcatholic’, who can totally disregard Him and be ‘better’ than the people who actually DO follow God?

It just doesn’t work that way. . .

Actually I’m not really internalizing comments as personally attacks. Compared to popular belief I don’t come on this forum as some sort of self loathing gay Catholic looking for a pity party. The only offense I’ve talking is people trying to reduce my identity to my sexual orientation. However, I can see how people might see my “vested interest” as cause that I would automatically take “as personal attacks.” I can assure you that is not the case of course you don’t see it in that regard because I don’t agree with your position on the matter.

I would caution though I don’t think I’m disregarding God at all. I am no doubt disregarding the Church. However in neither of these instances am I disregarding in totality. I belief strongly that I am following God and Jesus just as much as anyone on this forum we all fall, but we must get back up. We just disagree theologically whether homosexuality and homosexual acts are a “fall.”

I do appreciate the prayers though.

 

[Mariem2]

Let us be clear, though: The Pope does not have the authority to change moral law, either.

Correct. I didn’t want to drag the topic out any further by telling stlcatholic86 that if his dream comes true we’ll be examining hands and foreheads for the dreaded 666 while waiting for the cross to appear from the heavens. I had typed in that post (and then changed it) that the type of comments we have seen on this thread (I’m sure they are popping up all over the internet) should be a warning to the Church to be aware and very careful about the young men being admitted to seminaries.

The “This is heresy” response appeals to me.

 

[90Domer]

Well I agree we ought to look at God for questions of morality and I often look to the Church to set the standard. However, I’m not defining morality on my own just because I happen to be affected by it. There are certain moral truths like one should not kill, hence why regardless of the Catholic position on Capital Punishment I am against it. I do not believe the Church’s position on homosexuality is unequivocal and therefore I have serious doubts about God’s condemnation of it.

Finally no is suggesting this man become Pope. The Church is hurting for Eucharist Ministers and Lectors and to condemn people because they don’t always follow the tenets of the faith is just silly and sends the message that these people are welcome to attend but must be silent. Is that really the message our Church should send?

Where did you get the idea that the Church is hurting for Extraordinary Ministers (the correct terminology) and lectors? Even so, that is no reason to place a person who can cause scandal in one of these positions. Personally, I would not receive communion from an EM if I knew he/she was in grave sin. My in-laws were open supporters of SSM and members of a dissident anti-Catholic/pro-SSM organization, and members in their parish reported them and would not receive communion from them either. They made no efforts to hide their SSM advocacy. Dissenters in visible volunteer positions further weaken the Church.

And I still do not understand why those who do not follow the teachings of the Church still continue to call themselves Catholic. Those who have thought out a position and disagree with it are, quite frankly, saying they know better than God. That is prideful, isn’t it?