K
Kaninchen
Guest
Keep playing the Nazi card over each and every thing you don’t like and you just appear to be bonkers.
Ninth Circuit Decision Supporting Board’s Resolution Against Catholics Promotes Policy of Gleichschaltung
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S
Scoobyshme
Guest
Katy,
Code:
Unfortunately, I think the seeds are already sprouting. We see it as anti-Catholic, anti-God forces are getting bolder and bolder in their attacks on the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ.
Most Americans are so unfocused on God that, like Nazi Germany, most of us will never see it coming until it's too late. We are SO ripe for a dictatorship, it's not funny.
J
JSSebastianoP
Guest
I wasn’t necessarily saying we should use the nazi card here; I was mereley making the case for the author’s use of gleichschaltung - that it gets his meaning across better, not necessarily mine. Personally, I would say that the comparison to the early nazi state (or even the early soviet state) for that matter is warranted - we have not yet reached a comparison to nazism at its zenith, say, but this is the first step up the mountain. “Even the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.”
Pax.
E
E.E.N.S
Guest
Personally I think America has slipped lower than Nazi Germany, it’s just more subtle.
I was showing houses yesterday and came across a sticker on a door that said, “Proud to be an American”…I felt nauseous.
I am not a foreigner; I was born and raised in a suburb of Chicago, IL, and I have spent the last 22 years of my life in Phoenix, AZ; my brother and one of my best friends are in the Army; I am white, I pay my taxes and I am a citizen. I am NOT proud to be an American.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Let’s see.
San Francisco police did not arrest any homosexual activists for lewd behavior or anti-Catholic hate crimes:
conservativeoutpost.com/miller_beer_funding_gay_parade_san_francisco
San Francisco says no free speech for pro-life protesters (who also are Catholic)
catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2003&month=October&read=1652
Churches are vandalized and San Francisco does nothing to stop it.
catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1538
This is just the latest in a pattern of intolerance, bigotry and hatred of Catholics and the Catholic Church. Go to the Catholic League’s website and search for San Francisco.
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* COURT TO HEAR SAN FRANCISCO CASE
- The Catholic League, represented by the Thomas More Law Center, has sued the City and County of San Francisco ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2006&month=October&read=2119](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2006&month=October&read=2119)
* CENSORING PROLIFE SPEECH IN SAN FRANCISCO
- San Francisco's Board of Supervisors has voted to curtail the free-speech rights of prolife protesters. Previously, before the police could cite ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2003&month=October&read=1652](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2003&month=October&read=1652)
* SAN FRANCISCO SHOWDOWN
- An anti-Catholic group, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence, held a public celebration in San Francisco on Easter Sunday. It did so with the ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=1999&month=May&read=778](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=1999&month=May&read=778)
* WHY WE WILL NOT SUE SAN FRANCISCO
- On May 10, the San Francisco board of supervisors unanimously passed a gag rule that violates the First Amendment guarantee of freedom of speech. ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2005&month=June&read=1894](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2005&month=June&read=1894)
* GAYS VANDALIZE SAN FRANCISCO CHURCH
- Opponents of Proposition 8 vandalized Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church, in the heart of San Francisco’s gay Castro community, during the first ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2009&month=March&read=2558](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2009&month=March&read=2558)
* AN APPEAL TO MAYOR BROWN OF SAN FRANCISCO
- The Catholic League has asked Mayor Willie Brown of San Francisco to intervene in a matter that is of great interest to ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=167](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=167)
* CENSORING PROLIFE SPEECH IN SAN FRANCISCO
- San Francisco’s Board of Supervisors will soon decide whether to curtail the free-speech rights of ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=703](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=703)
* BOYCOTT OF SAN FRANCISCO PROCEEDS
- On Monday, March 29, the Catholic League is taking out a half-page ad in the San Francisco Chronicle asking all ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=170](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=170)
* GAYS VANDALIZE SAN FRANCISCO CHURCH
- Most Holy Redeemer Catholic Church, in the heart of San Francisco’s gay Castro community, was vandalized over the weekend by opponents of Proposition ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1538](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1538)
* SAN FRANCISCO SUED; ANTI-CATHOLICISM CITED
- On April 4, the Thomas More Law Center sued the City and County of San Francisco, and two local officials, on behalf of the 6,000 members of ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2006&month=May&read=2031](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2006&month=May&read=2031)
* IRS ASKED TO PROBE SAN FRANCISCO "SISTERS"
- The Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights has petitioned the Internal Revenue Service to revoke the tax-exempt status of the Sisters ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2001&month=December&read=1332](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2001&month=December&read=1332)
* WHY WE WILL NOT SUE SAN FRANCISCO
- Catholic League president William Donohue explained today why the Catholic League has decided not to sue the city of San ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=966](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=966)
* SAN FRANCISCO MAYOR SHOWS INTOLERANCE FOR CATHOLICISM
- Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, is at war with the city's archdiocese. By forcing Catholic Charities to abide ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=3](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=3)
* SAN FRANCISCO MAYOR SHOWS INTOLERANCE FOR CATHOLICISM
- Willie Brown, the mayor of San Francisco, is at war with the city’s archdiocese. Showing his intolerance for Catholicism, Brown is trying to ...
[www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=1997&month=March&read=268](www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=1997&month=March&read=268)
* SAN FRANCISCO POLS ATTACK FIRST AMENDMENT
- Catholic League president William Donohue commented today on a unanimous vote by the San Francisco Board of Supervisors ...
[www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1103](www.catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1103)Well?
If the San Francisco board were praising the Catholic faith and encouraging people to hold to it, citing a “secular purpose” I know that the ACLU, “people for the american way” and other fringe groups would be filing 20,000 lawsuits stopping such resolutions.
But when the government starts declaring the Catholic Church evil…that’s OK.
I see.
More proof that SOCAS is only one way. The State is free to promote bigotry against the Catholic Church, equal protection be damned.
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Dale_M
Guest
Are you serious? No crimes were committed. It was a legal public celebration. You may find it distasteful, as do I, but that doesn’t make it a crime.
Laws preventing the harassment of women seeking abortion are commonplace. Besides, the laws was passed before the Board of Supervisors resolution which is the topic of this thread.
Yes, some Catholic churches were vandalized in the wake of the Prop 8 decision, but you offer no evidence for your contention that the San Francisco Police Department ignored the matter. Nor any evidence of a link to the SF Board of Supervisors resolution.
Your link concerns the Thomas More Law Center argument with the SF Board of Supervisors. That is the topic of this thread, and they lost their case. Your link offers no evidence of persecution of the Catholic Church because of the resolution
That is the exact same point you made earlier. Again, the law was passed before the Board of Supervisors resolution, and the law doesn’t seem to be out of line with similar rules in other cities.
They do this every year. Your citiation is from 1999, which is many years before the Board of Supervisors resolution. And there is zero reason to think that the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence are operating in league with the San Franciso city government.
Look, if the Catholic League wants to sue someone for dressing up as the pope in a parody race, its their right. But the fact that some individual chose to do this doesn’t indicate a conspiracy on the part of the SF Board of Supervisors. Besides, the race took place a year before the SF Board of Supervisors passed the resolution in question.
Yes, it is very sad that some vandals attacked the church. But that doesn’t relate to the SF Board of Supervisors resolution. If you think it does, please provide some proof.
Oh, for crying out loud. Again, this took place seven years before the SF Board of Supervisors passed their resolution. It has absolutely no connection to their decision.
I’m just going to ignore everything else you posted, because obviously it is simply boilerplate which you copied and pasted without any thought about relevance or logic.
O Rly? In the infamous Kristallnacht of Germany, Jewish homes and businesses were attacked en-masse. What is your evidence that such an event took place in San Francisco, with Catholics being targetted?
I think you should gather some relevant facts instead of making wild claims.
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BobCatholic
Guest
Actually I have gathered some relevant facts, but I guess hatred of Catholics by the San Francisco government meets with your approval, so nothing I say will convince you otherwise.
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LRThunder
Guest
Bingo. San Francisco may not have committed any actual “crime” or measurable “offensive action,” but no city should be allowed to express open hostility to any religion. If this is allowed to stand, citywide discrimination of Catholics (loss of jobs, physical assaults) will be next.
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Dale_M
Guest
No, actually I posted earlier in the thread that the San Francisco resolution was wrong. Apparently you didn’t see that.
I later in the thread asked whether the resolution had any practical effects, and you gave me a laundry list of events which had nothing to do with the resolution.
Okay, I will ask you the same question: its been three years since the SF Board of Supervisors passed their resolution. Where is the the citywide discrimination against Catholics (loss of jobs, physical assaults) which you claim is to be expected?
K
Kaninchen
Guest
Using this sort terminology is like money, produce too much of it and it becomes worthless.
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JSSebastianoP
Guest
Right. But every journal starts with a single step. One might start by choosing north or south then east or west et cetera… This first step is the same one the nazis took, although many others have taken it as well. The other thing is that with words, unlike with money, the more you say it, the more it spreads. By spreading awareness now, maybe we can avert calamity in the future… Or maybe the comparison will enliven someone who is lukewarm to fight. Especially in the case in which we find ourselves now, the term and comparison should be warranted. Nobody seemed to mind the comparisons of the Bush administration to nazism (some of which is warranted, some of which is not). We saw the effects of nazism too late - let us now not repeat that path, upon which we have tread the first step unaware that the path has led us in a circle back to the spot whence we originally started upon it. Let us put up a signpost to those to come after to warn of the perils that lie on that path…
Pax.
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tcm22
Guest
“Practical effect” is a red herring sort of argument. This is about principle and the guarantees given US citizens in the Bill of Rights. While there needs to be actual damages for someone to seek redress in court, this sort of thing will only embolden anti-religious elements in government and society. This strikes me as the perfect “chilling effect” on free speech.
It’s almost funny how the political left in the US went apoplectic during the Bush years over the so-called “warrentless wiretaps” (which consisted of intercepts of adversary communications that merely passed through US telecommunications systems) as a “shredding of the constitution” while there is no outcry at all about something like this that goes against the basic principles of our Republic.
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Dale_M
Guest
No, its not a red herring. It is an attempt to put the resolution into context. Yes, the resolution was insulting, ill-conceived and wrong. But how important is it really?
You mention the risk of a chilling effect on free speech, but three years have gone by since the resolution has passed. Wouldn’t some of the dire effects have begun by now?
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tcm22
Guest
Now that it’s been affirmed by the 9th Circuit, it will only serve to embolden those who’s goals are to discredit the Church and religion in general.
What’s frightening is the complete lack of response by those who have made an industry of championing 1st amendment rights such as the ACLU.
I’m not sure what constitutes “dire” effects, but the fact that the municipal government of one of the most prominent cities in the United States now has judicial approval to promote an overt anti-Catholic policy path is pretty dire in my opinion. Are you saying we should wait until Priests and Bishops are arrested for preaching the Faith? I certainly wouldn’t want to be a Catholic in San Francisco, knowing the elected government has come out officially against my Faith despite Constitutional guarantees. That’s pretty dire in a representative democracy. I have no doubt in my mind that Parishes in San Francisco have modified their message and actions as a result of the political climate.
I’d love to hear from any Catholics in San Francisco, assuming there are any left.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
The first thing the Nazis did? I seem to have missed the Congress fire, the thousands of arrests of socialists and communists, the end of habeas corpus, the banning of trades unions, the banning of the Republican Party . . . . sorry for having failed to pay attention.
As Hitler - how appropriate for once - pointed out, of course.
J
JSSebastianoP
Guest
What do you think is happening in the United States? Our individual liberties are consistently being curtailed. What about the “gun control” crowd which wants to have Americans forget about a right guaranteed to us be the second amendment, the right to bear arms (only because the ones smart enough to bear arms are smart enough to know when their liberties are being curtailed). Or most of all, the right to life? The supposed ‘right to life’ that we are all supposed to have apparently now doesn’t apply to the elderly or the sick or the unborn does it? Just like the nazis, silencing opponents while killing off those useless to your plot… And the only reason Hitler had abortion outlawed and encouraged traditional marriages (good thing for an unjust cause) was to have more children to support his third reich and the Hitler youth.
Hitler, as I think we can all agree was a smart man, unwise and insane, but smart. The more you say something, the more people become aware of it, for better or for worse.
Pax.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
A great flowering of the art of hyperbole.
If you knew more about Hitler, you’d know that it wasn’t quite what he said so you missed the implication of what I was saying.
J
JSSebastianoP
Guest
Care to back that up by refuting the claims I made?
No, I did get what you said; that’s why I was very careful when wording my response: “for better or for worse”.
Pax.
K
Kaninchen
Guest
The claims you made were along the lines of ‘what about the naughty people who want to . . .’. which doesn’t actually add up to actually arresting thousands of socialists and communists, banning trades unions, banning the Republican Party . . . .
Actually, he was talking about the great advantage of repeating lies.
J
JSSebastianoP
Guest
Those people are now making their dreams a reality. And what about the over 800,000 innocents that die every year just in America in the name of what the democratic party has become?
Yes; and I am talking about the great advantage of repeating anything whether it be truth or lie and whether or not you think it be truth or lie. As someone who studies languages and have been the victim of more modern methods before finally figuring it out myself, I can vouch for the usefulness of repetition first-hand. Repetition is a useful but double edged sword - if the wrong act is repeated it could be catastrophic; it is for this reason that we must not allow the lies and downplaying of truth to pervade our society and we must repeat the truth as faithful beacons, casting light on the shadows and leading to safety those on the stormy seas.
Pax.
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