NJ Cardinal Offers Historic Welcome to LGBTQ Community

[Fiasco]

It’s natural that some would convert as death approached. And Mother Teresa and her spiritual daughters cared for the dying AIDS sufferers in the same way as did the ones you mentioned. But that has nothing to do with those who insist on continuing with a depraved life.

Of course AIDs is not a ‘gay plague’ but given that there were quite a lot of homosexual patients amongst those suffering which would you suggest was a better approach, to witness for Christ by caring for them or** to start calling them sinners in their hospital beds?**

A red herring. But inferring that i might take the latter course is an insult. i’m too old for that sort of treatment!

If you go back and re-read my first post, i said that they should be spoken to with charity, BUT NOT TO BE ENCOURAGED IN THEIR ACTS! And far too often, that’s what’s happening.
Ever heard of “Courage” and related orthodox outreaches?

[You even say that the case of the dying AIDS sufferers is not the same as with these ones, so why even bring it up?]

i’m fed up with the way the “LGBTQ ETC” members are being CONFIRMED in their “lifestyles”, especially by those who should be trying to CHARITABLY extricate them from this horror. More or less what i said in the first place.

“Courage” versus “Acceptance”:
“Courage” is true charity.
“Acceptance” is false charity, and it’s hellbound.

Can’t you see the difference???

Political correctness can go to hell! (where it belongs)

Idiotic software glitches aren’t helping…

 

[Don_Ruggero]

What wonderful memories you relate.

As I said above, we can be very grateful for the gift that Cardinal Tobin will be to the Church In the United States and beyond.

 

[Peter_J]

That would just be the logical application of the “liberal” interpretation of Amoris Laetitia and its supposed “innovative teaching” on conscience and culpability. Their culpability is reduced because they’re subject to an addiction, or because adopted children are involved and to split up would harm them, or because of whatever other justification can be thought up to arrive at the desired conclusion.

Well, if someone has an addiction I’d suggest they join a 12-step program. But I think the question should be asked: is a person who happens to be homosexual more likely to have an addiction than a person who happens to be heterosexual?

 

[Peter_J]

It’s natural that some would convert as death approached. And Mother Teresa and her spiritual daughters cared for the dying AIDS sufferers in the same way as did the ones you mentioned. But that has nothing to do with those who insist on continuing with a depraved life.

Would Mother Theresa even ask an AIDS patient if he (or she) planned on continuing with a depraved life before helping him (or her)?

I don’t know but I strongly doubt it. Granted, you might have known her a lot better than I did.

 

[Stat_Crux]

Would Mother Theresa even ask an AIDS patient if he (or she) planned on continuing with a depraved life before helping him (or her)?

I don’t know but I strongly doubt it. Granted, you might have known her a lot better than I did.

I don’t think anyone has proposed we withhold medical assistance, or any other kind of charity, until people amend their lifestyles.

 

[Fiasco]

Would Mother Theresa even ask an AIDS patient if he (or she) planned on continuing with a depraved life before helping him (or her)?

I don’t know but I strongly doubt it. Granted, you might have known her a lot better than I did.

The part you highlighted was aimed at the current “LGBTQ ETC” bunch, not at the unfortunates who were dying of AIDS!
Putting words into someone’s mouth, or at least inferring.
Grabbing the bull by the tail.

 

[pnewton]

Man, I am so confused. I am all for welcoming all, and recognizing that their sinful habits many not be worse than my own, but goodness people, if you want to welcome these people in to the hospital, you wouldn’t do it by telling them to keep bleeding all over the place and cut themselves some more. Surely there is some common ground where on can avoid excessive personal judgmentalism without condoning sin or dissenting from Church teaching. Lest we forget, this is the Catholic Church:

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

This teaching is not optional for anyone.

A bishop blessing nuclear weapons would not shock me more. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that and given anyone any ideas.

 

[Fiasco]

How extremely fortunate the Church in the United States is to have both Cardinal Tobin and Cardinal Cupich.

Pray that God feels the same.

This teaching is not optional for anyone.

Except for the following select groups…

A bishop blessing nuclear weapons would not shock me more. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that and given anyone any ideas.

Apart from a bishop who’s sick of this world, and wants to be lynched…can you think of one who might regard it as a martyr’s death?

 

[Randolph]

Agreed. I don’t think anyone is suggesting the “hammer” approach. One does not have to resort to condemnation of the individual when discussing the dangers of the action.

We don’t throw smokers in jail or those who drink alcohol but governments give public health warnings about cigarettes and alcohol being dangerous to our temporal health. In the same way we shouldn’t abandon our Christian duty to warn of the spiritual risks in certain behaviour. Christ commissioned us to be the salt in the world. In but apart from, not part of the world.

It is not mercy to see a brother or sister in danger and leave them in that situation. It’s a very delicate balance to strike in how the subject is approached with the individual (which many get wrong) and needs to be done with sensitivity, mercy and charity but the central issue is whether or not we have the courage to help in the first place, or whether we turn a blind eye because of our own imperfect faith in Christ’s redemptive power or our own lack of courage to give a Christian witness.

Well said, thank you. False mercy leads us in the wrong path, and only does harms in the end.

As taught in Scriptures, the good shepherd went out to find the lost sheep. But what is the shepherd to do if the sheep, in their own free will, don’t want to be found, nor want to be part of the herd? Does the shepherd now stop shepherding and feeding the rest of the herd in order to accommodate the lost sheep? Or the shepherd knows his responsibility and continues to shepherd his herd while patiently hoping for the lost sheep to come back like the father waiting for the prodigal son to come home.

As I reflect on my own life, it is in the mercy, laws and love of Christ that help me to be aware of my own sins and imperfections. As a result, I am able to resolve to amend my life. My pastor once told me. If one is sick, one needs to get the proper and correct diagnose so that the sickness itself can be properly treated. Pretending the sickness is not there, it would not go away. In fact, it will get worse.

 

[fin]

we should also give a special welcome for those who are tempted to commit murder and engage in adultery, then? I mean, for those who have given in to these temptations, they still deserve a warm welcome, you know Why should only those with SSA and who give in to these temptations without remorse should be given a special welcome?

 

[Pulvis]

To be painfully honest, after the last couple of years nothing surprises me any more.

 

[ARSpade]

A bishop blessing nuclear weapons would not shock me more. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned that and given anyone any ideas.

Would that be bad? Who would we be to judge?

I mean, lots of good people think that having a nuke capability and even using them (such as against Japan) is just fine. They have looked at the issue and their conscience says it is okay. And, as the good Cardinal Cupich has so wisely told us, it is utterly wrong for us to violate somebody’s conscience on a moral issue.

(I post this just to highlight how this moral flexibility the Church is suddenly showing to sexual issues can be used for so very many things. Despite the kinda creepy focus on sex.)

 

[edwest2]

Well said, thank you. False mercy leads us in the wrong path, and only does harms in the end.

As taught in Scriptures, the good shepherd went out to find the lost sheep. But what is the shepherd to do if the sheep, in their own free will, don’t want to be found, nor want to be part of the herd? Does the shepherd now stop shepherding and feeding the rest of the herd in order to accommodate the lost sheep? Or the shepherd knows his responsibility and continues to shepherd his herd while patiently hoping for the lost sheep to come back like the father waiting for the prodigal son to come home.

As I reflect on my own life, it is in the mercy, laws and love of Christ that help me to be aware of my own sins and imperfections. As a result, I am able to resolve to amend my life. My pastor once told me. If one is sick, one needs to get the proper and correct diagnose so that the sickness itself can be properly treated. Pretending the sickness is not there, it would not go away. In fact, it will get worse.

I agree.

Ed

 

[Stat_Crux]

To be painfully honest, after the last couple of years nothing surprises me any more.

Indeed. A real kick in the stomach after a blissfully happy conversion three years ago, which I largely credit to Pope Benedict XVI’s attitude and outlook. I thought I’d spend my life facing outwards teaching non-Catholics about the faith, instead I’m finding myself facing inwards trying to hold everything together in the face of these constant onslaughts, crises and the general lack of confidence in the Church’s identity and mission. I’ve had friends in floods of tears over stories like the one reported here.

I’m committed to endure it, and confident of God’s love for His Church, but it’s a very different way of life to what I was expecting.

 

[Peter_J]

I imagine Jesus of Nazareth would be proud.

Actually he was very humble.

 

[Peter_J]

How is it a language issue?
There is indeed a “new level of acceptance” when it comes to welcoming gay people into churches–the pope and other religious leaders are trying to encourage gay people to not leave churches and/or to join them in the pews.

The church still makes it very,* very* loud and clear they find these actions “wrong” by not allowing same-sex marriage and by calling sex between two people of the same gender a “sin” and so on, and so forth.

But what about two persons-of-opposite-gender who aren’t married to each other? Many people seem to have the impression that it is only people of the same gender who cannot lawfully have sex.