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BoomBoomMancini
Guest
And no more settlements with our money, ever, that preclude identifying the priest or shield him from liability.
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philipl
Guest
Once the church gets the message and starts to come down on the side of those being raped and makes are real effort to allow the rule of law to punish those rapist then we can open up the pocket books.
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Inquisitor85
Guest
Not a Catholic, but what about an internal ‘Inquistion’. Have clergy teamed with secular investigators and when accusations come to light turn over the case to the appropriate authorities along with any internal intelligence, if the accused is guilty immediately show what was turned up and excommunicate the guilty party. Also keep it as open to public scrutiny as possible to try and improve the churches image.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
Well it’s a lame article to begin with. I’ll sum it up for anyone who hasn’t read it:
Liberal bad. Conservative Latin Mass lovers good. Author takes a shot at Pope Francis. Author essentially says any clergy who’s not a Traditional (secret handshake) Catholic is part of the problem.
Yes the article is that bad. It doesn’t even address it’s own title.
As for the premise of your posts along with the CCC references…apparently the Catholic Church teaches that the laity are irrelevant, or so I’ve been told.
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twf
Guest
They would be HANGED by the neck until dead.
If you’re going to disagree with the Holy Father on the issue of capital punishment, at least get your terminology right!
If you’re going to disagree with the Holy Father on the issue of capital punishment, at least get your terminology right!
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philipl
Guest
It is attitudes such as this that has allowed priest to rape little boys without any worry. Theodore McCarrick, is a rapist. Period. He has been in a position to protect himself and other rapist.
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anon64350612
Guest
I would like to see the laity hold the the hierarchy more accountable before it gets to the point of criminal charges for theft, sex assault, fraud, and etc. I agree vigilance is very important, but I wonder what is the best way to do it…
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anon64350612
Guest
I guess you either did not read the article or you do not care that high-ranking church officials are notorious serial sex offenders. Or maybe you agree with Bishop Tobin, who thinks this is no big deal. Quote from the article, emphasis mine:
"“If you find a perfect church out there somewhere, by all means, join it. But remember, the moment you join it, it will cease being perfect.”
— Thomas J. Tobin (@bishoptjt) July 19, 2018
Tobin’s reaction would be appropriate if it had just come to light that an archbishop had been a scofflaw on his parking tickets. It is utterly perverse when applied to the revelation that his nation’s leading Catholic official — the public face of the Church’s response to the abuse crisis — turns out to have been a pederast well-known within the Church as a serial sexual harasser and groomer of seminarians. Bishops should not be fearing and tamping down the feeling of scandal and anger among the laity; they should be promising to boldly and angrily confront the injustice, immorality, and crime in their own ranks. Tobin’s tweets read as the shrug of a man who long since gave up on the idea of actually protecting the flock from the wolves, and has taken to telling the surviving sheep not to be too disheartened that their friends and children continue to be devoured by his colleagues."
"“If you find a perfect church out there somewhere, by all means, join it. But remember, the moment you join it, it will cease being perfect.”
— Thomas J. Tobin (@bishoptjt) July 19, 2018
Tobin’s reaction would be appropriate if it had just come to light that an archbishop had been a scofflaw on his parking tickets. It is utterly perverse when applied to the revelation that his nation’s leading Catholic official — the public face of the Church’s response to the abuse crisis — turns out to have been a pederast well-known within the Church as a serial sexual harasser and groomer of seminarians. Bishops should not be fearing and tamping down the feeling of scandal and anger among the laity; they should be promising to boldly and angrily confront the injustice, immorality, and crime in their own ranks. Tobin’s tweets read as the shrug of a man who long since gave up on the idea of actually protecting the flock from the wolves, and has taken to telling the surviving sheep not to be too disheartened that their friends and children continue to be devoured by his colleagues."
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philipl
Guest
You cant say that, after all it is up to the Holy spirit to fix the church, the laity should count on prayer and let the church leaders do their thing.
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anon64350612
Guest
I beg to differ. Just like I will not send money to Planned Parenthood to promote abortion, nor to Catholic Relief Services to promote contraception, neither do I want my money supporting criminal priests and modernist seminaries (modernism has been condemned by Pope Pius X who called it the synthesis of all heresies).
I can pray AND do something about this.
I can pray AND do something about this.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
This does not work with the funding structure of the church. You will only succeed in shutting down your local parish. Unless your local parish is the problem, you won’t have addressed anything.
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anon64350612
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Canon Law allows us to direct our donations. Yes, there is a way to pay the parish bills without supporting a corrupt Bishop.
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Theo2
Guest
I guess it depends on the diocese but there are many eyes watching now.
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JHFamily
Guest
Except each and every parish gets “taxed” by the diocese for each and every collection. I had a pastor once that used to announce before Mass, “Today, the diocese is taking a collection for x. I’m going to write a check for that, and if you want to contribute something extra, just put it in the collection basket.” His only exception was Peter’s Pence. It is impossible to support “just” the parish unless you are paying the bill directly.
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anon64350612
Guest
One can write “for Parish Use Only” on a donation and it would have to be honored. My fear is that if enough people did that the Bishop would punish the parish priest. Hopefully we can work through this somehow. I just don’t see “waiting until all the bad people die” as the best approach to ridding ourselves of a corrupt hierarchy.
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mrsdizzyd
Guest
Yes, but canon law also requires you to support your parish and respond to appeals as you are able. Canon law also allows the bishop to assess parishes a certain amount as necessary.
So, again I say, the financial structure of the church means that financial protest will ultimately harm the parish more than it will the diocese.
So, again I say, the financial structure of the church means that financial protest will ultimately harm the parish more than it will the diocese.
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anon64350612
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And on that we disagree. Prudence is a factor, I agree, but I disagree with your blanket conclusion that a financial protest will always harm the parish.
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JHFamily
Guest
That’s interesting. But I think you would be right about the bishop punishing the priest. Like I said, I don’t think there is a way of keeping your money from the diocese without hurting the parish.
Waiting until all the bad people die is certainly not an option. Like recruits like, and many good men get turned away from the priesthood for being too rigid. That’s happening in my diocese, and it automatically makes me suspect the bishop.
A newspaper attempted to expose Cardinal McCarrick in 2002, I think it was. No one would pay attention. I’ve seen another article now, this week, in which the author claims he knows of “other secrets” but will not print it because there is no one who will go on record. This is the same thing that happened with Cardinal McCarrick. Hang on, folks, the ride is far from over.
Waiting until all the bad people die is certainly not an option. Like recruits like, and many good men get turned away from the priesthood for being too rigid. That’s happening in my diocese, and it automatically makes me suspect the bishop.
A newspaper attempted to expose Cardinal McCarrick in 2002, I think it was. No one would pay attention. I’ve seen another article now, this week, in which the author claims he knows of “other secrets” but will not print it because there is no one who will go on record. This is the same thing that happened with Cardinal McCarrick. Hang on, folks, the ride is far from over.
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Joe_5859
Guest
Financial protests are fine, but they need to be targeted at the right entity if we want it to effect change. Refusing to give money to our own parish because of what a retired bishop on the other side of the country has done is not going to have an impact because our own parish is too far removed.
I understand being upset by all this. I’m upset by it. It is a very upsetting thing. And certainly we want to see that concrete action is being taken so that these types of things do not continue to happen. But we also need to focus our anger at the right targets. Getting angry at “the Church” in general, is not helpful.
I understand being upset by all this. I’m upset by it. It is a very upsetting thing. And certainly we want to see that concrete action is being taken so that these types of things do not continue to happen. But we also need to focus our anger at the right targets. Getting angry at “the Church” in general, is not helpful.
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Joe_5859
Guest
I thought it did, though I’ll grant it could have done a better job. I think the central point is that we cannot just rest on our laurels expecting “time” to take care of the problem for us.
Maybe it depends what circles you run in. I know that I have known a great number of young Catholics and young priests over the past 20 years who have somewhat relied on “the waiting game” to just wait for the older generation to retire so that we can swoop in and right the ship.
Even though the sex abuse crisis hit the forefront in 2002, many Catholics have been quick to point out that the incidents were almost all from the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. And most of the perpetrators are now older priests. So, again, the prevailing wisdom for many was that, if we just wait it out a bit longer, all those abuser priests will be dead gone and this will all be behind us.
The author is pointing out that this is a bad strategy, and I can’t really say he’s wrong on that front.
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