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CMatt25
Guest
Guan, thanks but if someone is “on fire” for Christ while they walk their spiritual journey, I don’t judge that to be lukewarm. I’ll leave the judging to Him who knows the heart.
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guanophore
Guest
I agree. It is not possible to be “lukewarm” while one is on fire. But then again, a person who is on fire with their faith will speak the truth in love, won’t they?
Would an “on fire” person fail to warn a person who is about to go off a precipice?
C
CMatt25
Guest
What they might speak with love Guan is what they believe in faith. For instance it is with love and in faith that I speak peace to you. :hug1: God bless!
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Esdra
Guest
Hi,
honestly, not really. - I am sorry to say that, as I know that for you and most others here that’s really important.
You see, I never have been a “real Catholic”. And, actually, I think I’ve also never believed in the sacraments.
This starts with confession (I have been last to confession when I was 14 years old or so - just before Confirmation…)
And I think I’ve also never really believed in the RP that the bread and the wine are the real, literal, body and blood of Christ. - I guess for me this always has been symbollic, even long before I came in contact with the Baptist Church or the Lutheran Evangelical Church (I think I already told you, rinnie, right?).
I mean, grandma has told me when I was a child that here in the tabernacle Jesus is living. - I didn’t really understand what she meant, but as a child I somehow believed it full of reverence.
My parents never really talked about religion with me… And before I’ve become a Baptist, I actually also wasn’t interested. - Similar to my sister, who still isn’t.
I remember my mom explaining us in the preparation classes before First Communion the Eucharist. But I also didn’t have the feeling that we were talking about the literal flesh and blood of Jesus… (And you remember me telling you that my mom never has really been a 100% faithful woman? 'Though at that time she certainly was more faithful than she is now!) I can’t remember more from those preperation classes.
In R.I. (which was at that time when I attended school obligatory), I didn’t keep anything. We had a laity teacher (in former times it was always a priest!!) and noone payed attention and the teacher couldn’t do anything about it.
From the Confirmation classes I didn’t keep anything. Honestly, I’ve no idea what we were talking about there and I even can’t remember who our teacher was…
Well, some few years after Confirmation, I already began studying the Holy Bible and built together my own Church (which was more or less Baptist; At that time I called myself “non-denominational Christian”, very proudly I tell you!
)Well, and how it went on, you can read in many posts of mine here on CAF.
(And you rinnie, already know, because we’ve been PMing already about that also!)Well, and the remaining sacraments: Marriage, (naturally) ordination to the priesthood
and Anointing of the sick I haven’t recieved yet!
So, actually, nearly everything I know about the CC and her doctrine I know here from CAF.
It’s amazing how much I’ve really learned here.
Thank you to all of you!
in Christ,
G
guanophore
Guest
Yes, I agree. But failing to speak is not loving. We have a duty to warn others about the eternal effects of sin. Sin separates us from God, and causes damnation of the soul (failure to be united with the heavenly inheritance). It is not effective to warn people about sin if one cannot discern what constitues sin. If one is waiting for “100% absolute proof” about what constitutes sin, and one believes it cannot be known in this life, then such a one would not be effective in warning others about it, would you not agree?
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CMatt25
Guest
I might agree Guan if all faiths and all believers in good faith agreed on what constitutes sin. But that’s why we call it faith. Peace.
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guanophore
Guest
Somehow I knew we were going to end up on this dead end road of moral relativism, CM. I was listening to Mother Angelica on Immaculate Heart Radio this morning, and she was talking about how it is the duty of the Church to proclaim the Truth, and it is up to every human being if they want to accept it or not.
Your comment implies that sin is defined by what “all believers in good faith agree upon”.
What constitutes sin is within the purview of God to define, not the “majority rules” or some kind of human consensus. Since we are created by God, He is the one who gets to define the parameters of our existence. He has done so, and has revealed His immutable will to humankind. The fullness of His revelation to man exists in the Catholic Church, because Jesus is that fullness, and He deposited everything in His One Body, the Church that pertains to our salvation (including the nature of sin). When we accept His revelation, we can know what constitutes sin. That is why we call it faith.
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CMatt25
Guest
Hi Guan, and somehow I knew you were going to end up accusing moral relativism even though the ultimate truth is not relative. The point you always have seemed to misunderstand though is that what you and Mother Angelica describe is for instance yours and her faith as it is the faith of the most faithful Catholic. But the keyword is still faith.
God bless you Guan in yours and peace to you always and to all as we journey in faith. :grouphug:
P
PRmerger
Guest
No, Matt. Sin is sin. Even if a man doesn’t think that it’s wrong to cheat on his wife, and his faith tells him it’s okay because he’s prayed about it, and that’s what his heart tells him is right…
it’s still wrong to cheat on your wife.
Whether his faith tells him it’s wrong or not.
C
CMatt25
Guest
:sad_yes: I believe it is too PR.
So our understandings and faiths jive on that one. :yup: 
P
PRmerger
Guest
And yet, this man? His faith tells him it’s :aok:, thus is it not a sin for him?:sad_yes: I believe it is too PR.
Will you tell his wife, “Well, I cannot tell him what he’s doing is wrong. For I have my own speck in my eye, you see.”
C
CMatt25
Guest
No PR, you and I believe it is a sin for him. We can both tell him what we believe and try to “reach” him on this matter. Just as you can tell Fred what it is you want to tell him. But we can’t force our beliefs. This is what I will tell his wife. And explain Christ said in Matt 7 we can’t judge him so as we shall not be judged in the same manner with our specks.
P
PRmerger
Guest
No one is saying we must “force our beliefs”, Matt.
The point that is being made is that you cannot tell your philandering friend that what he’s doing is wrong. Because he’s doing exactly what you told him to do: pray and ask the Holy Spirit to give you faith.
He’s doing just that and now you’re going to tell him, “Umm…the Holy Spirit told you wrong, man.”
Huh?
Either your paradigm is right–and that means that he is right.
Or…
Your paradigm is wrong and that means that you can tell him that he’s wrong.
P
PRmerger
Guest
'Tis true, this.No problem PR. I just gathered, perhaps mistakenly, from your signature that R is the mother of Merg e.
I’m just used to the PR and it makes me go, “Wha??” when I see your designation “Merger”.
Perhaps if I had started out on the forums as “Merger”, then I’d be good with it.
Anyways, 'tis much ado about nothing, to be sure!
C
CMatt25
Guest
PR, I can tell my philandering friend that I believe he is wrong. No one is saying when someone follows their conscience that the person is infallible. I know I never claim infallibility.
If a philandering friend and I believed differently on this matter, then obviously both of us would not be right. He might believe I will see the truth in time and I might believe the same of him. In the meantime we walk by our faith understandings, not by sight.
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fred_conty
Guest
Hi,
I have heard of terms like drop outs, fallen aways, Easter Catholics.
I know a woman who for many years just went to Mass in a hum drum style.
She started thinking about staying home on Sunday because it didn’t mean anything
any more. Then something happened and she started to read and to pray. Her and
her husband have two sons now studying for the priesthood and she now loves the
church, especially the Eucharist.
How many times have we heard right here about reverts of 20, 30, or more years?
I know of one that after 20 years as a protestant she came back. And she said
that it was because of the Eucharist which she missed so much.
It is our responsibility to pray for these Catholics because they are part of our
mystical Body. Each day we should offer our prayers for our brethern who have
distanced themselves from the church. We should offer remorse and love to our
Saviour and ask that He bring them safely home.
Prevention is also something we overlook in ourselves. It could happen to any of us.
We need to keep our deep appreciation and love of the spiritual alive. We can’t
afford to be indifferent toward prayer or the graces received, but as St. Paul says that
we must alway give thanks to God. The spiritual rust and mold is waiting for us as well.
I have heard of terms like drop outs, fallen aways, Easter Catholics.
I know a woman who for many years just went to Mass in a hum drum style.
She started thinking about staying home on Sunday because it didn’t mean anything
any more. Then something happened and she started to read and to pray. Her and
her husband have two sons now studying for the priesthood and she now loves the
church, especially the Eucharist.
How many times have we heard right here about reverts of 20, 30, or more years?
I know of one that after 20 years as a protestant she came back. And she said
that it was because of the Eucharist which she missed so much.
It is our responsibility to pray for these Catholics because they are part of our
mystical Body. Each day we should offer our prayers for our brethern who have
distanced themselves from the church. We should offer remorse and love to our
Saviour and ask that He bring them safely home.
Prevention is also something we overlook in ourselves. It could happen to any of us.
We need to keep our deep appreciation and love of the spiritual alive. We can’t
afford to be indifferent toward prayer or the graces received, but as St. Paul says that
we must alway give thanks to God. The spiritual rust and mold is waiting for us as well.
C
CMatt25
Guest
To be sure. But I know you would still like to see a merger PR if everyone merges to your faith.
In any case peace be with you PR always as you drive along your faith way.
P
PRmerger
Guest
'zactly. And that’s what you have to tell him. You’re walking by your faith, brother, and keep it up.PR, I can tell my philandering friend that I believe he is wrong. No one is saying when someone follows their conscience that the person is infallible. I know I never claim infallibility.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I wish for nothing more than that which Christ wishes.To be sure. But I know you would still like to see a merger PR if everyone merges to your faith.
M
mlz
Guest
Traditionally in the US Baptists do believe in OSAS. correct?
Esdra
yes,
mlz
Esdra
yes,
mlz
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