No children, no rights in the catholic church?

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Can someone clarify the difference between the terms “open to” procreation, and “unable to”. Does “open to” apply to the sacrament of marriage or only to the morality of the sexual act itself?
If the standard for marriage is “unable to”, it seems any potential spouse who is “unable to” procreate is unqualified for marriage. Sometimes people are unable to procreat then through the act of faithfully giving themselves openly to their spouse they discover they are indeed able to, because they were open to it. :whacky:
When people talk about “open to” procreation, they mean not interfering with procreation, for example by artificial birth control. A person who has done nothing to interfere with procreation might be unable to, for example due to age.
 
When people talk about “open to” procreation, they mean not interfering with procreation, for example by artificial birth control. A person who has done nothing to interfere with procreation might be unable to, for example due to age.
But is a couple who is open to it but unable, qualified to be married. (I hate that word qualified in this context, sorry).
 
But is a couple who is open to it but unable, qualified to be married. (I hate that word qualified in this context, sorry).
“Unable” is not a clear word. If they cannot engage in the sex act, it is an impediment to marriage. If they are infertile, it is not an impediment. The couple may marry.
 
Perhaps. However, that “impediment” has nothing to do with the man’s fertility. It is an impediment (or may be–it is still a topic of debate in canonical circles) due to its being a kind of grave mutilation (c. 1041.5).

I will join my voice to the chorus of others saying there is no reason to say someone has “no rights” in the Church because of infertility. There is also no reason to say that a priest must be fertile and potent.

Dan
I don’t know the reasoning behind it, but when my brother had his interview with the vocations director and the bishop, one of the questions they asked him was could he father a child. He replied that, as far as he knew, he could.
 
I’m wondering if this is really a licit Catholic parish, operating in full communion with the Church under the local Bishop, or if it’s some fringe, extreme sedevacantist-type group calling itself “Catholic.”
 
An M.D. Checking in. Turner’s syndrome females (genetically XO) usually have none functioning ovaries but have relatively normal genitalia and vaginas. It is stated that 5 percent of Turner’s are fertile. Steps can be taken to increase fertility in an individual case. Some of these would involve ovarian biopsy and preservation at a young age and various in vitro technologies which may be unacceptable to some.

She would be able to consummate a marriage but would have reduced fertility. It is a misunderstanding to assume that such a marriage could not be blessed with a normal child.

They could also adopt, as we have.

John
 
I’m so sorry folks, I did misunderstand part of what she told me. I thought she said they kicked her out of the church, but after speaking to her again I found out that they didn’t.

What they did say was that they will not perform the wedding ceremony, she did tell the preist they will try in-vetro fertilization to try and have children.
 
I’m so sorry folks, I did misunderstand part of what she told me. I thought she said they kicked her out of the church, but after speaking to her again I found out that they didn’t.

What they did say was that they will not perform the wedding ceremony, she did tell the preist they will try in-vetro fertilization to try and have children.
There ya go.
 
In vitro fertilization is against Catholic teaching. Conception of babies must take place during intercourse between the husband and wife. Medical treatment that increases fertility but still allows conception to happen during intercourse is allowed. Treatments such as artificial insemination and IVF violate that.

Best wishes for your friend and her situation.
 
I’m so sorry folks, I did misunderstand part of what she told me. I thought she said they kicked her out of the church, but after speaking to her again I found out that they didn’t.

What they did say was that they will not perform the wedding ceremony, she did tell the preist they will try in-vetro fertilization to try and have children.
Well there ya go. He is denying them the sacrament of marriage because she has admitted to planning to go against church teaching on life. I hope that he took the time to explain the churches position on in-vitro and that he gave her the chance to reconsider her plan. Since she would probably be using donor eggs so as to avoid the possibility of passing on her condition ( I think it’s genetic IIRC?) she could just adopt instead and there would be no impediment to the marriage then.
 
So the actual title of this thread should be “No right to children in the Catholic Church.” 🙂
 
So the actual title of this thread should be “No right to children in the Catholic Church.” 🙂
Since there is no such thing as a “right to children” at all, that wouldn’t be wrong, except it is pejorative to the Church as stated.

ICXC NIKA
 
Since there is no such thing as a “right to children” at all, that wouldn’t be wrong, except it is pejorative to the Church as stated.

ICXC NIKA
Unfortunately a majority of Americans do believe there is a “right” to children, and thus we have IVF and gay adoption becoming more and more the norm.
 
I remember learning how many embryos die in the IVF process and it got me to thinking about having a “right” to children as if they were things at the store instead of people. Then that made me think of slavery. It’s very scary to me.

Well, these are only my thoughts but for more authoritative statements, there are many IVF-related links at the USCCB web site:
old.usccb.org/prolife/issues/ivf/

+++
4. Why is the Catholic Church opposed to reproductive technologies such as “in
vitro” fertilization?
The child conceived in human procreation is a human person, equal in dignity with the
parents. Therefore he or she deserves to be brought into being through an act of total and
committed marital love between husband and wife. Technologies that assist the couple’s
marital union in giving rise to a child respect this special dignity of the human person;
technologies that replace it with a procedure by a technician in a laboratory do not. The
moral problem is aggravated by efforts to introduce gametes (sperm or egg) from people
outside the marriage, to make use of another woman’s womb to gestate the child, or to
exercise “quality control” over the child as though he or she were a product. IVF as
practiced today also involves a very high death rate for the embryos involved, and opens
the door to further abuses
old.usccb.org/comm/Dignitaspersonae/Q_and_A.pdf

amsjj

+++
Jesus, God and man,
imprisoned by love in Thy most holy Sacrament,
have mercy upon us.
  • Blessed John Henry Newman, December 22, 1851
Tú y yo sabemos por la fe que oculto en las especies sacramentales está Cristo,
ese Cristo con su Cuerpo, con su Sangre, con su Alma, y con su Divinidad,
prisonero de amor.
  • San Josemaría Escrivá, 1 junio 1974
… Our Lord Himself frequently said; and it is recorded as an Apostolic tradition from Him
by St. Justin the Martyr. He says ‘Jesus often said, “They who are near Me are near a fire”’.
  • Abp. W. B. Ullathorne, August 1st 1886
 
I am pretty nutral on the subject of IVF, but I do care about my friend. I sympathize with her and people like her who cannot concieve naturally, I have been blessed with 2 wonderful children and they are so important to me, don’t know what I would do without them.
My aunt cannot have children either and I have seen how much not being able to concieve has caused her so much emotional pain over the years so I understand why people go to such lenghts to try to have children.

I don’t know what my friend is going to do in the long run, maybe she will consider adopting but nothing is written in stone, until then maybe people could say a prayer for her and her husband to be for guidance and strength in their lifes journey.
 
I am pretty nutral on the subject of IVF, but I do care about my friend. I sympathize with her and people like her who cannot concieve naturally, I have been blessed with 2 wonderful children and they are so important to me, don’t know what I would do without them.
My aunt cannot have children either and I have seen how much not being able to concieve has caused her so much emotional pain over the years so I understand why people go to such lenghts to try to have children.

I don’t know what my friend is going to do in the long run, maybe she will consider adopting but nothing is written in stone, until then maybe people could say a prayer for her and her husband to be for guidance and strength in their lifes journey.
Have you considered recommending adoption?
 
Have you considered recommending adoption?
That’s what I was gonna say, as someone who knew rather well someone in similar circumstances (she’s not married yet - she seems to be married to her art at the moment, as it were - but she’s planning ahead).

Anyway, praying for your friend and all others with TS.
 
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