No churches named after Calvin or Zwingli

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Today (July 10) is John Calvin’s birthday. It got me to thinking. If he was such a great protestant reform leader why aren’t there any protestant denomination named after him or Zwingli that matter? After all Luther has his denomination.
 
Today (July 10) is John Calvin’s birthday. It got me to thinking. If he was such a great protestant reform leader why aren’t there any protestant denomination named after him or Zwingli that matter? After all Luther has his denomination.
But not by his own design. The term Lutheran was a slur by his opponents, which, not unlike “Roman Catholic Church” sort of stuck, and was eventually adopted, against Luther’s expressed desire, by the Evangelical (Lutheran) churches.

The Reformed Church is the name given to the adherents to the teachings of Zwingli and Calvin.

Jon
 
But not by his own design. The term Lutheran was a slur by his opponents, which, not unlike “Roman Catholic Church” sort of stuck, and was eventually adopted, against Luther’s expressed desire, by the Evangelical (Lutheran) churches.
Jon,

And, from the bull Decet Romanum we have –
III. Our purpose is that such men should rightfully be ranked with Martin and other accursed heretics and excommunicates, and that even as they have ranged themselves with the obstinacy in sinning of the said Martin, they shall likewise share his punishments and his name, by bearing with them everywhere the title “Lutheran” and the punishments it incurs.
So it is by papal fiat that Luther and those followed him are known as “Lutherans.”
 
Today (July 10) is John Calvin’s birthday. It got me to thinking. If he was such a great protestant reform leader why aren’t there any protestant denomination named after him or Zwingli that matter? After all Luther has his denomination.
Hey that’s my birthday too :).

But I’m not a big fan of Calvinism.
 
Jon,

And, from the bull Decet Romanum we have –

So it is by papal fiat that Luther and those followed him are known as “Lutherans.”
Ok. But if being called Lutheran was considered derogatory why didn’t Lutherans change their name when they had the chance.
 
Ok. But if being called Lutheran was considered derogatory why didn’t Lutherans change their name when they had the chance.
I don’t really know. One could imagine someone saying “if that’s what they want to call us, let’s show them that names can’t hurt us.” Then, too, it would have been considered derogatory by the Catholics but not necessarily so by the Lutherans.
 
:rotfl: I love the fact that the Lutheran Church officially counts John Calvin and Francis of Assisi together as “Renewers of the Church” on its remembrance-calendars. Somehow there seems to be a slight dissonance there. 🙂

To the credit of Anglicans, it’s not as if Scottish Calvinists came to be called “Calvinists”. These were called “Presbyterians” for their wish to restore the “original” episcopacy and presbyterate which Calvin thought he was restoring to its pristine pre-Dark-Age position. Obviously they were wrong, but at least they didn’t contrive to call each other “Calvinists”, or some other silly religious-patronymic. I believe the Anglican Communion “honours” him as a saint, or whatever term they use.
 
Ok. But if being called Lutheran was considered derogatory why didn’t Lutherans change their name when they had the chance.
Not too surprising. It’s happened before and it will happen again. For instance, in economics, the term “Austrian” was often used as a slur by the German Historian School against the school of thought that dates its origins to Carl Menger. Several years later, the term “Austrian” was adopted and now those who follow Menger’s works go by the name of “Austrian”.

Same thing happened with the term “Capitalism”. “Capitalism” has it’s origins in Karl Marx’s works, and he used it as a slur against the economic system he saw during the time he lived in (roughly around the Industrial Revolution). Today, everyone uses the term “Capitalism” adamantly and without intention shame :).

So I guess a similar thing happened with Lutheranism.
 
So if you don’t want to hurt my feelings, call me a member of the Church of the Augsburg Confession. Tell me what time you plan to finish. I don’t want to miss the end. Or you could just call me Lutheran.😉

And if the way to brand someone a heretic is to name a movement after him, what are we to make of Augustinians or Franciscans, just to pull two out of a hat?😃
 
There is a Calvin Presbyterian Church in my city. That’s just one church of course, and its denomination is PCUSA.

And of course there are plenty of folks who call themselves Calvinists. Most of them are either Presbyterian or Baptist.
 
:rotfl: I love the fact that the Lutheran Church officially counts John Calvin and Francis of Assisi together as “Renewers of the Church” on its remembrance-calendars. Somehow there seems to be a slight dissonance there. 🙂

To the credit of Anglicans, it’s not as if Scottish Calvinists came to be called “Calvinists”. These were called “Presbyterians” for their wish to restore the “original” episcopacy and presbyterate which Calvin thought he was restoring to its pristine pre-Dark-Age position. Obviously they were wrong, but at least they didn’t contrive to call each other “Calvinists”, or some other silly religious-patronymic. I believe the Anglican Communion “honours” him as a saint, or whatever term they use.
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod commemorates neither John Calvin or St. Francis of Assisi. The ELCA does.
John Calvin got the Lord’s Supper wrong.
 
:rotfl: I love the fact that the Lutheran Church officially counts John Calvin and Francis of Assisi together as “Renewers of the Church” on its remembrance-calendars. Somehow there seems to be a slight dissonance there. 🙂
.
That doesn’t really surprise me.

Despite getting into relatively serious disagreements with Calvin, they did agree on a lot, and Luther and Calvin generally had a good relationship (if I recall correctly). Luther and Zwingli, on the other hand…

At any rate, Calvin is probably honored because he was one of the early Reformers, along with Luther. And considering that Lutherans generally consider the Protestant Reformation somewhat of a positive event (:D), it makes sense to honor other leads of that movement.
 
Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod commemorates neither John Calvin or St. Francis of Assisi. The ELCA does.
John Calvin got the Lord’s Supper wrong.
From a Catholic prospective so did Luther. For Catholics Jesus’ real presents in the Eucharist is the center of our faith.
 
From a Catholic prospective so did Luther. For Catholics Jesus’ real presents in the Eucharist is the center of our faith.
Is for us, too. The mark of the Church is word and sacrament.

Apology of the Augsburg Confession
we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh.
Jon
 
From a Catholic prospective so did Luther. For Catholics Jesus’ real presents in the Eucharist is the center of our faith.
Please explain to me where Luther got it wrong? Is it because we will not go along with the philosophical explanation of the accidents? Or the so called sacrifice of the Mass?🤷
 
Please explain to me where Luther got it wrong? Is it because we will not go along with the philosophical explanation of the accidents? Or the so called sacrifice of the Mass?🤷
Where did Luther get it wrong? The difference between Catholic and Lutheran beliefs in a nutshell are, reading John 6, Catholics believe the bread and wine actually become Jesus Body and Blood at the consecration, whereas Lutherans believe the bread and wine are still bread and wine after consecration with Jesus riding piggy back so to speak. See the Dictionary definitions. Catholic, Transubstantiation, Lutherans Consubstantiation. There is a big difference.

Transubstantiation |ˌtransəbˌstan ch ēˈā sh ən|
noun Christian Theology
(esp. in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining.
• formal a change in the form or substance of something.

Consubstantiation |ˌkänsəbˌstan ch ēˈā sh ən|
noun Christian Theology
the doctrine, esp. in Lutheran belief, that the substance of the bread and wine coexists with the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Compare with transubstantiation .
 
Catholics believe the bread and wine actually become Jesus Body and Blood at the consecration, whereas Lutherans believe the bread and wine are still bread and wine after consecration with Jesus riding piggy back so to speak. See the Dictionary definitions. Catholic, Transubstantiation, Lutherans Consubstantiation. There is a big difference.

Transubstantiation |ˌtransəbˌstan ch ēˈā sh ən|
noun Christian Theology
(esp. in the Roman Catholic Church) the conversion of the substance of the Eucharistic elements into the body and blood of Christ at consecration, only the appearances of bread and wine still remaining.
• formal a change in the form or substance of something.

Consubstantiation |ˌkänsəbˌstan ch ēˈā sh ən|
noun Christian Theology
the doctrine, esp. in Lutheran belief, that the substance of the bread and wine coexists with the body and blood of Christ in the Eucharist. Compare with transubstantiation .
Lutheran theology does not put forth consubstantiation as an explanation of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. We believe the “how” of Christ’s presence to be a mystery to be believed because of his words, “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.”

I admit to having a problem with the Aristotleian concept of substance and accidents being independent of each other but I have no problem n believing that Christ can come to us in the physical forms of bread and wine. How it happens remains a mystery to me.
 
Lutheran theology does not put forth consubstantiation as an explanation of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist. We believe the “how” of Christ’s presence to be a mystery to be believed because of his words, “this is my body” and “this cup is the new covenant in my blood.”

I admit to having a problem with the Aristotleian concept of substance and accidents being independent of each other but I have no problem n believing that Christ can come to us in the physical forms of bread and wine. How it happens remains a mystery to me.
I’m sorry but this issue has been argued over and over again on this sight and for the last 500 years. I know I’m not smart enough to resolve the issue. All I can say is we have different understandings of Jesus words in John 6.
 
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