No Compromises: Kansas State Bishops Declare Voting for Abortion Candidate is "Evil

[estesbob]

Well when you listen again, take note how Raymond Arroyo says to the Bishop, that its confusing for average Catholics, the way it is being explained.

He in fact said, Catholics can vote for a candidate who is pro-choice, providing other issues are at stake.

Jim

Yes, providing his opponent is pro-abortion also. And then only if they are radically more pro-abortion than he is. I don’t think Chaput could have been clearer when he said when he said

*Abortion, immigration law, international trade policy, the death penalty and housing for the poor are all vitally important issues. But no amount of calculating can make them equal in gravity.

The right to life comes first. It precedes and undergirds every other social issue or group of issues.*

Given Chaput unequivocal statements on this I still have to think you misunderstood what he said.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

So what happens to a Catholic and is a running mate to an abortionist?

public excommunication.

 

[agnostic]

The right to life comes first. It precedes and undergirds every other social issue or group of issues.

.

No it doesn’t. That is only ONE point of view. Women have a right to chose, and men dressed in frocks living in palaces of luxury disconnected from the real world have no right whatever to tell me that I have to have a child if I became pregnant from a rape.

And the fact I have an abortion will affect only me. No one and nothing else. To try and say that me having an abortion somehow undermines the very fabric of society is such BS it’s not worth commenting on. I’ll tell you who undermines society. Priests and other religious that abuse their position and authority, rapists, murderers, paedophiles, an ineffective prison system, an ineffective government, women forced to prostitute themselves to put food on the table, illiteracy, these are the things that undermine every other social issue - not abortions, nor women who have abortions. Why do women have abortions? For a laugh? Coz they’re bored one day? Get real. But for every pregnant woman aborting there was a man involved. What about picking on the men eh? What about telling MEN they undermine society if their women have abortions and lets see men in their real light and women as the real victims here.

 

[estesbob]

No it doesn’t. That is only ONE point of view. Women have a right to chose, and men dressed in frocks living in palaces of luxury disconnected from the real world have no right whatever to tell me that I have to have a child if I became pregnant from a rape.

Since we are in a Catholic forum and we’re discussing Catholic teaching why should you be suprised if that is the point of view expressed.?

**

And the fact I have an abortion will affect only me. No one and nothing else.

**

To try and say that me having an abortion somehow undermines the very fabric of society is such BS it’s not worth commenting on. I’ll tell you who undermines society. Priests and other religious that abuse their position and authority, rapists, murderers, paedophiles, an ineffective prison system, an ineffective government, women forced to prostitute themselves to put food on the table, illiteracy, these are the things that undermine every other social issue - not abortions, nor women who have abortions. Why do women have abortions? For a laugh? Coz they’re bored one day? Get real. But for every pregnant woman aborting there was a man involved. What about picking on the men eh? What about telling MEN they undermine society if their women have abortions and lets see men in their real light and women as the real victims here.

Ggratuitous slap at the clergy noted ,however , it should also be noted that the sins of the clergy do not justify the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year.

Unfortunately our society has told Fathers they have no say whatsoever and whether a woman has an abortion or not. Do you think that should be changed? I do. If not I can’t see why you’re complaining about it

 

[estesbob]

No it doesn’t. That is only ONE point of view. Women have a right to chose, and men dressed in frocks living in palaces of luxury disconnected from the real world have no right whatever to tell me that I have to have a child if I became pregnant from a rape.

And the fact I have an abortion will affect only me. No one and nothing else. To try and say that me having an abortion somehow undermines the very fabric of society is such BS it’s not worth commenting on. I’ll tell you who undermines society. Priests and other religious that abuse their position and authority, rapists, murderers, paedophiles, an ineffective prison system, an ineffective government, women forced to prostitute themselves to put food on the table, illiteracy, these are the things that undermine every other social issue - not abortions, nor women who have abortions. Why do women have abortions? For a laugh? Coz they’re bored one day? Get real. But for every pregnant woman aborting there was a man involved. What about picking on the men eh? What about telling MEN they undermine society if their women have abortions and lets see men in their real light and women as the real victims here.

By the way there seems to be a lot of anger in your post If you have been negatively affected by an abortion I suggest you contact your local crisis pregnancy center.

 

[agnostic]

Unfortunately our society has told Fathers they have no say whatsoever and whether a woman has an abortion or not. Do you think that should be changed?

Yes I do - but it is still my right to chose because it’s my body. If I get pregnant and we discuss having a family I may chose to have the baby because I’m reasonably certain my man might stand by me. If I get pregnant and he wants the baby but he’s a bum and getting pregnant was a failure of the precautions we were taking then no way does what he wants matter because I’m the one that’s going to be left holding the baby - literally.

See the fact is - if men could get pregnant - we would never be having these discussions. Men would abort willynilly depending on their latest whim, it wouldnt be a sin, and the woman would have no say in the matter.

 

[agnostic]

By the way there seems to be a lot of anger in your post If you have been negatively affected by an abortion I suggest you contact your local crisis pregnancy center.

Thanks for your concern but it is misplaced. If I’m angry at anything it’s women always being scapegoated for men and their sins. Women get raped and sexually abused every minute of every day, both inside and outside of marriage, and if they get pregnant they are expected to carry to full term and ‘‘love’’ the results of the rape otherwise they are undermining the very fabric of society. Do you see that? It’s the woman’s fault - not a mention of the men who abused and raped? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

 

[estesbob]

Yes I do - but it is still my right to chose because it’s my body. If I get pregnant and we discuss having a family I may chose to have the baby because I’m reasonably certain my man might stand by me. If I get pregnant and he wants the baby but he’s a bum and getting pregnant was a failure of the precautions we were taking then no way does what he wants matter because I’m the one that’s going to be left holding the baby - literally.

Actually its not your body. The child is seperate distict human life from the moment of conception.

See the fact is - if men could get pregnant - we would never be having these discussions. Men would abort willynilly depending on their latest whim, it wouldnt be a sin, and the woman would have no say in the matter.

I see you have a lot of dislike for men(hatred)? Although I know the premise you lay out is the darling of r feminsits there simply is no truth to it. Having cut men completely out of the decision now they are accused of being more abortion minded than women.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I’ve never understood that position myself. For men, abortion takes away a lot of problems. It eliminates having to marry a woman they just wanted to sleep with, and/or paying for the support of a child for 18 years. If anything, I would think there would be a grand male conspiracy against outlawing abortion!

 

[agnostic]

Actually its not your body. The child is seperate distict human life from the moment of conception.

Well, no, actually, it is.

I see you have a lot of dislike for men(hatred)? Although I know the premise you lay out is the darling of r feminsits there simply is no truth to it.

I don’t hate men - I love men I have issues with male politics.

Having cut men completely out of the decision now they are accused of being more abortion minded than women.

Why the heck should a man be able to force me to have a child I know I will be left to bring up and support on my own after he decides he needs his ‘‘freedom’’ immediately the lifelong responsibility hits him LOL LOL LOL …
and are you seriously suggesting to me that if I am raped, and become pregnant, I must carry that foetus to term and bring an unwanted and unloved child into the world, and every time I look at him or her be reminded of that horrific rape? See, only a man could suggest such a thing because men cannot be affect by these issues in the same way a woman is.

I’m sure some religious women will jump in here to support you - but that doesn’t change a thing. It’s a woman’s body, and a woman’s right to chose, because only the woman will be left carrying the can.

 

[agnostic]

If anything, I would think there would be a grand male conspiracy against outlawing abortion!

There is - a grand conspiracy of silence by the majority while the women are forced to deal with the issue

 

[Fitswimmer]

If I were made pregnant by rape, I would give the baby up for adoption and make sure the circumstances of the child’s conception were sealed. Why punish an innocent child for the violent actions of her father?

 

[KathleenElsie]

Thanks for your concern but it is misplaced. If I’m angry at anything it’s women always being scapegoated for men and their sins. Women get raped and sexually abused every minute of every day, both inside and outside of marriage, and if they get pregnant they are expected to carry to full term and ‘‘love’’ the results of the rape otherwise they are undermining the very fabric of society. Do you see that? It’s the woman’s fault - not a mention of the men who abused and raped? It would be laughable if it wasn’t so sad.

So men are having sex alone and that makes the woman pregnant? Gee this is new. I thought that it took sperm and an egg to produce a baby.

Abuse victims can be male or female, young or old. But the ultimate abuse is abortion.

Rape is an act of hate and violance. Men as well as women can be raped.

You seem to be so angry. I will keep you in my prayers.

 

[agnostic]

So men are having sex alone and that makes the woman pregnant?

Where did you get this from

Abuse victims can be male or female, young or old.

Agreed, but it is only women that run the gauntlet at the abortion clinics.

Rape is an act of hate and violance. Men as well as women can be raped.

Agreed - but again only women can get pregnant from such a violent encounter and only women are left facing the abortion issue

You seem to be so angry. I will keep you in my prayers.

Once again, I’m most very definitely and totally not angry. But I do find the catholic position on this matter impossible to fathom and in and of itself abusive to women by it’s very nature. I repeat - if men could get pregnant - would abortion be a sin - no way - it would be just something else for the guys to slap each other over the shoulders about at the ball game. Seriously.

 

[agnostic]

If I were made pregnant by rape, I would give the baby up for adoption and make sure the circumstances of the child’s conception were sealed. Why punish an innocent child for the violent actions of her father?

And the child finding out she/he was born out of a violent encounter in the park one night with an unknown man, who might now be in prison for life for rape, or else knowing their father was never caught but is out there raping heck knows how many women over the years since, is unloved and unwanted and was given up to others for this very reason, is not punishment I know what is the lesser of the the two evils for all concerned - and it’s not what the catholic church, a male based, male dominated, male administered institution, would have us brainwashed into believing.

 

[Fitswimmer]

And the child finding out she/he was born out of a violent encounter in the park one night with an unknown man, who might now be in prison for life for rape, or else knowing their father was never caught but is out there raping heck knows how many women over the years since, is unloved and unwanted and was given up to others for this very reason, is not punishment

I guess you missed the part where I said I would have the circumstances of the conception sealed. It is legal to do that.

 

[estesbob]

Well, no, actually, it is.

Well actually it isn’t. You’re entitled your own opinion but you’re not entitled the you own version of biology.

Why the heck should a man be able to force me to have a child I know I will be left to bring up and support on my own after he decides he needs his ‘‘freedom’’ immediately the lifelong responsibility hits him LOL LOL LOL …
and are you seriously suggesting to me that if I am raped, and become pregnant, I must carry that foetus to term and bring an unwanted and unloved child into the world, and every time I look at him or her be reminded of that horrific rape? See, only a man could suggest such a thing because men cannot be affect by these issues in the same way a woman is.

I’m sure some religious women will jump in here to support you - but that doesn’t change a thing. It’s a woman’s body, and a woman’s right to chose, because only the woman will be left carrying the can.

well I’ll have to admit you have managed to slip in every pro-abortion clichéin about four post. It’s my body.! Men don’t care.! Nobody can force me to have a child!. If men could could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament. !

All those are demonstrably false but are thrown out again and again mainly because it steers the conversation away from what abortion entails. We are talking about the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year. Not a matter of gender, not a matter of politics, it’s a matter of a slaughter unprecedented in the history of mankind. Now I know you would much rather make profound comments about how oppressed women are and how you won’t be told by men what to do but keep in mind that over half of those killed every year are women.

 

[estesbob]

And the child finding out she/he was born out of a violent encounter in the park one night with an unknown man, who might now be in prison for life for rape, or else knowing their father was never caught but is out there raping heck knows how many women over the years since, is unloved and unwanted and was given up to others for this very reason, is not punishment I know what is the lesser of the the two evils for all concerned - and it’s not what the catholic church, a male based, male dominated, male administered institution, would have us brainwashed into believing.

So you think that if someone found out they were the product of a rape they would wish that their mother had aborted them ???What kind of convoluted thinking is that???

 

[rlg94086]

Agreed - but again only women can get pregnant from such a violent encounter and only women are left facing the abortion issue.

Apparently, you aren’t aware that married women get raped. If, God forbid, my wife is raped and becomes pregnant with the rapist’s child, with God’s help we will both be raising the child and loving him as much as our current children.

EDIT ADD: Or find an adoptive family for the child. I’m not sure which way we would go on that…it would be something we would need to prayerfully decide.

 

[agnostic]

Well actually it isn’t. You’re entitled your own opinion but you’re not entitled the you own version of biology.

well I’ll have to admit you have managed to slip in every pro-abortion clichéin about four post. It’s my body.! Men don’t care.! Nobody can force me to have a child!. If men could could get pregnant abortion would be a sacrament. !

All those are demonstrably false but are thrown out again and again mainly because it steers the conversation away from what abortion entails. We are talking about the slaughter of 1.2 million children a year. Not a matter of gender, not a matter of politics, it’s a matter of a slaughter unprecedented in the history of mankind. Now I know you would much rather make profound comments about how oppressed women are and how you won’t be told by men what to do but keep in mind that over half of those killed every year are women.

You’re just towing the party line. You haven’t actually addressed anything I said or disproved it. My body is mine. Prove to me it isn’t. The cells growing in it are just that - cells, that are part of my body - prove to me that is not so. Getting rid of a bunch of cells is not ‘‘slaughter’’ - killing innocent victims in an illegal war, now that’s slaughter.