As it pertains to this discussion, would you really want the Church to tell us to vote for an exact candidate? Even putting aside the taxexempt status they can still only direct us how to vote on issues not candidates. We can’t be puppets.How many babies have been killed during the last seven-and-a-half years while a “pro-life” president (and a “pro-life” Congress for part of that time) have been in power? Where’s the Constitutional amendment outlawing abortion? Where’s the Constitutional amendment prohibiting, homosexual “marriage”, cloning, and stem-cell research for that matter?
If this party is so pro-life, then why are they relying on such a subversive, long-term strategy of waiting for Federal judges to croak so they can be replaced with ones who are more desirable? Why aren’t these “pro-life” politicians acting more proactively? I’m beginning to think that they are using the life issue, and their approach to addressing it, as a bargaining chip to insure their long-term political power. I am becoming very, very frustrated with them. I’m still not sure how I will vote in November. I’m almost prepared to write-in my own name on the ballot (seriously).
Finally, I wish the Church would just tell us who to vote for. Do you think Jesus would have cared if his teaching affected His non-profit tax status? I don’t think so, and I don’t understand why His Mystical Body cares either. I’m tired of voters guides and nebulous statements by the hierarchy that are supposed to help me form a Catholic conscience in regards to selecting a political candidate. If these issues are so important, then tell me who to vote for (by name), under the pain of Mortal Sin, and be done with it. If the consequence of this action is that the IRS forces the Church to render unto Caesar what is his, so be it.
Charity forbids me from participating in this thread anymore. Your false accusations mean nothing to me. I am no more responsible for the deaths of the unborn than you are. Don’t throw your stupid guilt trip at me.Not yet, you can still make the correct decision.
In the mean time the several million reasons for voting for candidate b continue to cry out for justice. Maybe their voices are still too mute for you to hear, or perhaps you simply refuse to listen to them.
I don’t see anything ‘stupid’ about wanting life and its sanctity to be respected and protected regardless of the age of the people in question. I also don’t see what is stupid about stating the truth, that enough people voting for an nonviable candidate as good as assures candidate a’s victory.Charity forbids me from participating in this thread anymore. Your false accusations mean nothing to me. I am no more responsible for the deaths of the unborn than you are. Don’t throw your stupid guilt trip at me.
I am not voting for candidate B for a host of other reasons. You trap me into voting for one candidate. Your methods won’t work. I have been saying for sometime that we should cast off both parties and start forming one that conforms to the Catholic doctrine on more than just the abortion issue. Maybe your consicence can live with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Mine can’t. I won’t vote for either candidate because in my view they are both evil and I refuse to keep voting for the lesser of two evils.I don’t see anything ‘stupid’ about wanting life and its sanctity to be respected and protected regardless of the age of the people in question. I also don’t see what is stupid about stating the truth, that enough people voting for an nonviable candidate as good as assures candidate a’s victory.
Again not yet, you’ve not cast your vote. Perhaps you should listen to the weight of millions of reasons rather than a senseless grudge based on the events of a few years ago, although if you want to put that before the only realistic way of saving millions of lives then it’s your choice.
At this point, yes. Otherwise, I’m determined to find some sort of conscience-based “loophole” that will allow me to vote for the candidate that most people here consider undesirable.As it pertains to this discussion, would you really want the Church to tell us to vote for an exact candidate?
My point was that there may be an alternative prolife candidate. It would be improper for the Church to then tell us we have to support one prolife candidate over another. They can only tell us which issues are nonnegotiable. Then we are free moraaly to support any candidate who stand side by side with us on the nonnegotiable despite whether or not he is the “viable” candidate. Viability is in the eye of the beholder.At this point, yes. Otherwise, I’m determined to find some sort of conscience-based “loophole” that will allow me to vote for the candidate that most people here consider undesirable.
I’m sick of this “we’re telling you who to vote for without naming names” strategy. I don’t see how telling us who to vote for makes us “puppets”. The Church teaches us in black/white terms about other moral issues. I don’t understand why this topic has to be given such disparate treatment if how we approach it has such a direct effect on the state of our soul.
By voting as you propose you do not vote for the lesser of evils, rather you vote for the perpetuation of the greater evil which is exactly what happens when votes go to a third party which would otherwise have went with the viable pro life candidate.I am not voting for candidate B for a host of other reasons. You trap me into voting for one candidate. Your methods won’t work. I have been saying for sometime that we should cast off both parties and start forming one that conforms to the Catholic doctrine on more than just the abortion issue. Maybe your consicence can live with the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. Mine can’t. I won’t vote for either candidate because in my view they are both evil and I refuse to keep voting for the lesser of two evils.
Well thank you for reading my intentions. I didn’t know you were so gifted. But you’re wrong. I still do what I can to stop abortion. I am reasoning with individuals one at a time. But to keep dictating to me to vote for one candidate as the only way to do that when that candidate in no way satisfies any of the other requirements I am looking for, well… I am not supporting the evill and I wish those accusations would just stop. I am attempting to find a good candidate and I don’t see one out there right now.By voting as you propose you do not vote for the lesser of evils, rather you vote for the perpetuation of the greater evil which i exactly what happens when votes go to a third party which would otherwise have went with the viable candidate.
And you put this ‘host of reasons’ before the millions of dead babies who will never be born should candidate a be elected? How about you make up your own list and then look up the abortion figures, see if you can come up with a reason for each individual murdered, one reason good enough to tell each of those children why they were killed.
Catholics do not make up 51% of the US, State wise they do not make up 51% of the total number of electoral college votes. And your proposal while it may have some effect over a period of decades does nothing to deal with the immediate issue, and that is how the Supreme Court will be made up for the next decade or so. If you want a liberal court vote for anyone but candidate b, if you want a conservative court vote for candidate b.
Then continue to support the great evil currently going on by all means, your current intention only serves to perpetuate it.
Your intentions do not come into it, the effect your vote has does.Well thank you for reading my intentions. I didn’t know you were so gifted. But you’re wrong. I still do what I can to stop abortion. I am reasoning with individuals one at a time. But to keep dictating to me to vote for one candidate as the only way to do that when that candidate in no way satisfies any of the other requirements I am looking for, well… I am not supporting the evill and I wish those accusations would just stop. I am attempting to find a good candidate and I don’t see one out there right now.
Goodbye, goodluck and I’ll discuss this with on the other side because I have had enough of false accusations for now. Your continued requirement that candidate B is the only candidate to vote for by default makes him the only viablbe candidate. With a litle effort we as Catholics could find someone else to vote for and thereby make them a viable candidate. I am not perpetuating anything that you keep say I am. Farewell until we meet on the other side. And if you dare make a judgement of whether I will make it there to heaven or not, I’ll have to remind you that is not your authority.Your intentions do not come into it, the effect your vote has does.
If you truly claim to do what you can to stop abortion then you should have the sense to realise that voting for candidate b is the only way to accomplish that in the long run. Indeed candidate b is the only way we can get the kind of conservative Supreme Court which is needed to hold back and halt the advance of the culture of death. 3 or 4 liberal justices is only going to do the opposite.
You are supporting the perpetuation of that evil, because you are unwilling to exercise the only viable way of stopping it from continuing.
Are you going to try that list challenge by the way? One reasons to give each child who has been murdered? Or maybe one reason to give each child who will be killed if candidate b doesn’t make the nominations to the Supreme Court as opposed to candidate a?
He is the only candidate with a realistic chance of stopping the advance of the culture of death and ensuring the Supreme Court remains in line with conservative beliefs, yes.Your continued requirement that candidate B is the only candidate to vote for by default makes him the only viablbe candidate. With a litle effort we as Catholics could find someone else to vote for and thereby make them a viable candidate. I am not perpetuating anything that you keep say I am. Farewell until we meet on the other side. And if you dare make a judgement of whether I will make it there to heaven or not, I’ll have to remind you that is not your authority.
And I am doing the same just not through voting for a particualr candidate. Why don’t you get that?He is the only candidate with a realistic chance of stopping the advance of the culture of death and ensuring the Supreme Court remains in line with conservative beliefs, yes.
No, as I have said there are not enough Catholics to make a President, even if every single person from the most Traditional to the most notional Catholic voted for them they’d still come third or at best second.
No, you’ve not made your vote yet as I’ve said.
I’ll not make that judgment. I do know however that if it should ever come up I would far rather be able to say to the Holy Innocents that I did all I could to protect their little brothers and sisters who should be alive today rather than saying I chose not to because of a “host of other issues”. I’ll not cast any vote other than the one most likely to save them unless I have a good reason which I could stand before them and give to each one of them for not doing so.
Alito ,Roberts We only need one moreHow many babies have been killed during the last seven-and-a-half years while a “pro-life” president (and a “pro-life” Congress for part of that time) have been in power? Where’s the Constitutional amendment outlawing abortion? Where’s the Constitutional amendment prohibiting, homosexual “marriage”, cloning, and stem-cell research for that matter?
.
Again because you set him up to be the only realistic candidate. That then becomes a self fulfilled argument. I will stand before the Holy Innocents as well and say I did what I could for them. I just didn’t vote for a candidate who would leave them miserable after they were born. We not only need to defeat abortion but we have to improve the quality of life. Corporations making record profits at the expense fo consumers with noone to do anything about it is not my idea of improving life. I want them to be born and to live well also like providing healthcare for them without counting the cost, making sure they all have homes, and are fed etcetera. I disagree candidate B is a viable option for doing anything but making sure they are born.He is the only candidate with a realistic chance of stopping the advance of the culture of death and ensuring the Supreme Court remains in line with conservative beliefs, yes.
No, as I have said there are not enough Catholics to make a President, even if every single person from the most Traditional to the most notional Catholic voted for them they’d still come third or at best second.
No, you’ve not made your vote yet as I’ve said.
I’ll not make that judgment. I do know however that if it should ever come up I would far rather be able to say to the Holy Innocents that I did all I could to protect their little brothers and sisters who should be alive today rather than saying I chose not to because of a “host of other issues”. I’ll not cast any vote other than the one most likely to save them unless I have a good reason which I could stand before them and give to each one of them for not doing so.
You really think that “I didn’t vote” is a good enough excuse?And I am doing the same just not through voting for a particualr candidate. Why don’t you get that?
I have to respectfully disagree.Hypothetically if taxpayer A supports taxpayer funded abortion on demand and canidate b supports only abortion in the case of rape and incest the Church(and it appears the KS Bishops) say it is morally acceptable to vote for canidate b.
Oh give it up. Again you and several others make a judgement call which you have no moral authority to make. If I vote for a prolife candidate even though it is not B then it is not ineffectual. I contend it is more ineffectual if I just blindly follow one party.You really think that “I didn’t vote” is a good enough excuse?
Not voting isn’t good to do anything to stop the culture of death it will only allow it to continue.
And saying that you didn’t vote when there is a realistic chance of getting a Supreme Court which will get the big decisions right? Every vote not cast for candidate b makes it easier for candidate a to win. Every vote not cast for candidate b allows the Supreme Court to retain liberal bias which will allow the murder of those babies and millions more to continue. Do you really think that is a good enough reason to give them? They lose their lives, and you didn’t bother casting a vote/cast an ineffectual vote which allows the perpetuation of evil.
So you make the choice for them that they should not live at all rather than be born and experience a sightly lower quality of life? You’ll stand before them and say you didn’t vote for the only realistic chance to make the changes which would allow them to live.Again because you set him up to be the only realistic candidate. That then becomes a self fulfilled argument. I will stand before the Holy Innocents as well and say I did what I could for them. I just didn’t vote for a candidate who would leave them miserable after they were born. We not only need to defeat abortion but we have to improve the quality of life. Corporations making record profits at the expense fo consumers with noone to do anything about it is not my idea of improving life. I want them to be born and to live well also like providing healthcare for them without counting the cost, making sure they all have homes, and are fed etcetera. I disagree candidate B is a viable option for doing anything but making sure they are born.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I said they should be born and given a decent quality of life.So you make the choice for them that they should not live at all rather than be born and experience a sightly lower quality of life? You’ll stand before them and say you didn’t vote for the only realistic chance to make the changes which would allow them to live.
You think telling them about businesses or about how expensive their health care would have been making money is good enough? You think that is a good reason to give them for them having lost their lives in senseless murder?
It is better that they are born. If they are never born then all else is a mote point. Children are born in Africa every day, do you think they should not be allowed to be born until they have a quality of life equal to the West? If you see pictures of those children in spite of poverty which we in the West can barely conceive of many of them are happy, vibrant and alive. The very thing you choose to deny them by not making the only vote which could allow them to live in the first place.
It is ineffectual in ending the murder of innocent children across America.Oh give it up. Again you and several others make a judgement call which you have no moral authority to make. If I vote for a prolife candidate even though it is not B then it is not ineffectual. I contend it is more ineffectual if I just blindly follow one party.