No Consciousness or Perception in Buddhist Nirvana?

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Gods can perform miracles as well. If you want to win the lottery then praying to the Buddha is useless. A god might intervene on your behalf, or not.
Noted then. Since we are talking about miracles that can change a person for the better, they are still very difficult to achieve – which is through a determined human effort and the uncertainty of gods’ intervention and help.
Are angels intelligent? Are devils intelligent? Were the Nephilim intelligent? Buddhism merely has a wider range of non-human intelligent beings to pick from.

Rossum
You are right. My first thought was that the intelligent beings are somewhere on par with humans.
 
I just dropped by to say hello. It’s nice to see another Buddhism thread rolling on.

"Mere suffering is, not any sufferer is found
The deeds exist, but no performer of the deeds.
Nibbana is, but not the one who enters it,
The path is, but no wanderer is to be seen.

No doer of the deeds is found,
No one who ever reaps their fruits,
Empty phenomena roll on,
This view alone is right and true.

No god, no Brahma, may be called,
The maker of this wheel of life,
Empty phenomena roll on,
Dependent on conditions all."
  • Visuddhimagga XIX
That sounds like emptiness of all things. Nagarjuna’s teachings. And maybe Atisha too. Mahayanna. I think rossum follows Hinayanna. That’s trying to become a stream enterer or arhant. In my lineage all starts with Vajradara. The primeval buddha. It’s Vajrayanna.
 
Edit: That the intelligent beings were more in line like the Tharks from planet Barsoom. 😉
I remember the vedas or maybe upanishads speaking of planets with oceans of milk, some with oceans of oil, and like ours with oceans of salt.

Maybe the mahabaratta. Or BG from it.
 
That sounds like emptiness of all things. Nagarjuna’s teachings. And maybe Atisha too. Mahayanna. I think rossum follows Hinayanna. That’s trying to become a stream enterer or arhant. In my lineage all starts with Vajradara. The primeval buddha. It’s Vajrayanna.
The poem is about the concept of all things being are dependent on conditions which are always changing. Each condition is dependent upon other conditions. That may be similar to emptiness, but I’m not sure. Here is a link. accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanatiloka/wheel394.html#ch3

The term Hinayana actually started as a slur against certain forms of Buddhist traditions that are no longer in existence today. While many still use the term when referring to Theravada, it is not considered polite. I’m sure you didn’t know.

You respond to the question “Religion” by stating you are a Catholic. Do you believe that one can be both Catholic and Buddhist?
 
I remember the vedas or maybe upanishads speaking of planets with oceans of milk, some with oceans of oil, and like ours with oceans of salt.

Maybe the mahabaratta. Or BG from it.
Their knowledge is amazing but time only will tell until it can be verified (when our technology has developed sufficiently to do it) that there exist such planets. The likelihood is great considering that every new day new discoveries are made in the universe.Perhaps at the moment these creatures can be likened to the Tharks of planet Barsoom and that when our space ship (satellites) were able to visit it, it was only dry orange sand and no Tharks. 😉
 
I read that all five aggregates (form, feelings, perception, mental formations, and consciousness) are annihilated upon attaining Nirvana. If consciousness is annihilated, isn’t that basically the same as death, since there is no awareness of anything? I’m also confused because I have seen Nirvana described as ultimate happiness, but how can there be happiness if there is no perception or consciousness?
according to their religion they have ultimate and perfect nirvana and meditation but their definition does not match in many, many religions and philosophies with their truth definition and “savior.” But they do have a portion of the fullness of truth that God granted his church; so, hopefully they will meet with Him. but, truly only God knows.

God bless
 
That sounds like emptiness of all things. Nagarjuna’s teachings. And maybe Atisha too. Mahayanna. I think rossum follows Hinayanna. That’s trying to become a stream enterer or arhant. In my lineage all starts with Vajradara. The primeval buddha. It’s Vajrayanna.
the odd thing is the mahabharata is futuristic or leading to foreshadowing too much in some

places and times in comparison to many other religious works, teachings, and practices.🤷

God bless
 
The poem is about the concept of all things being are dependent on conditions which are always changing. Each condition is dependent upon other conditions. That may be similar to emptiness, but I’m not sure. Here is a link. accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nyanatiloka/wheel394.html#ch3

The term Hinayana actually started as a slur against certain forms of Buddhist traditions that are no longer in existence today. While many still use the term when referring to Theravada, it is not considered polite. I’m sure you didn’t know.

You respond to the question “Religion” by stating you are a Catholic. Do you believe that one can be both Catholic and Buddhist?
No I was not aware of any slur or slang term. The yannas I’ve always known as the vehicles. Lesser, middle, and greater.

Absolutely. If you really know what’s going on. You can use the two to obtain enlightenment.
 
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billcu1:
No I was not aware of any slur or slang term. The yannas I’ve always known as the vehicles. Lesser, middle, and greater.
The main beef with the phrase Hinayana is the implication of the nature of practice. Mahayana schools attempt to cultvate bodhicitta to realize Bodhisattvas to save all sentient beings no matter how many lifetimes it takes, while Theravadan schools focus on enlightenment and cultivation of the self to attain arhanthood.

Mahayana having vastly more infuence across asia, it didnt take long before they started picking on the Theravadan schools as being small time, selfish practicioners who hole up in their monasteries instead of engaging and cultivating in the outside world.
 
The main beef with the phrase Hinayana is the implication of the nature of practice. Mahayana schools attempt to cultvate bodhicitta to realize Bodhisattvas to save all sentient beings no matter how many lifetimes it takes, while Theravadan schools focus on enlightenment and cultivation of the self to attain arhanthood.

Mahayana having vastly more infuence across asia, it didnt take long before they started picking on the Theravadan schools as being small time, selfish practicioners who hole up in their monasteries instead of engaging and cultivating in the outside world.
Goodness. This is rather harsh language that shows a lack of understanding of Theravada practice.
It’s easy to see
the errors of others,
but hard to see
your own.
You winnow like chaff
the errors of others,
but conceal your own —
like a cheat, an unlucky throw.
If you focus on the errors of others,
constantly finding fault,
your effluents flourish.
You’re far from their ending.
 
That sounds like emptiness of all things. Nagarjuna’s teachings. And maybe Atisha too. Mahayanna. I think rossum follows Hinayanna. That’s trying to become a stream enterer or arhant. In my lineage all starts with Vajradara. The primeval buddha. It’s Vajrayanna.
It is indeed Nagarjuna. My theory is Mayahana, following Nagarjuna. My practice is mostly Theravada, with a little Soto Zen thrown in.

For explaining Buddhism to non-Buddhists, the Theravada is usually the better place to start. The Mahayana is built on the foundations of something similar to the modern Theravada, but the Mahasangika school no longer exists.

rossum
 
I remember the vedas or maybe upanishads speaking of planets with oceans of milk, some with oceans of oil, and like ours with oceans of salt.

Maybe the mahabaratta. Or BG from it.
In general the ancient Indians seem to have made the connection that the stars are not actually different from our sun, but are really other suns seen from a very very long way away. Naturally, if they were other suns, then there were also other earths, other moons and other planets associated with them. After that their imaginations took over.

rossum
 
All descriptions of nirvana fall short. At best they are a finger pointing at the moon, they can never be the moon itself. How can nirvana be correctly described in human words?

rossum
I believe nirvana is full union with the uncreated, God. I also believe that this is the ultimate goal of all Christians.
 
I believe nirvana is full union with the uncreated, God. I also believe that this is the ultimate goal of all Christians.
Right. Heaven is a better place. It’s a place where we can progress. Like a pureland. God’s biggest wish for us is to be just like him. As Paul wrote. “When that which is imperfect becomes perfect…”
 
That is this thread and this topic. You claim Jesus is divine, and show no evidence for it. I claim that the Buddha was human, and that requires less proof.

A human Jesus is in the same position as a human Buddha. It is up to you to show a difference if you claim there is one.

rossum
Jesus was fully human, according to orthodox Christian theology.
 
The Buddha was also fully human, and showed us what it was possible for a human to achieve. What he did, we can do.

rossum
I am lost after the discussion touches on mahabaratta, Hinayanna, Vajradara, Vajrayanna and Theravada. I guess they are too complicate for me. It is hard to have an understanding.

As a Christian, I am still mystified though - how do you know that Buddha achieved what he had achieved?
 
As a Christian, I am still mystified though - how do you know that Buddha achieved what he had achieved?
He said so:

[The Buddha said:] "As long as my knowing and seeing how things are, was not quite purified in these twelve aspects, in these three phases of each of the four noble truths, I did not claim in the world with its gods, its Maras and high divinities, in this generation with its monks and brahmans, with its princes and men to have discovered the full Awakening that is supreme.

“But as soon as my knowing and seeing how things are, was quite purified in these twelve aspects, in these three phases of each of the four noble truths, then I claimed in the world with its gods, its Maras and high divinities, in this generation with its monks and brahmans, its princes and men to have discovered the full Awakening that is supreme. Knowing and seeing arose in me thus: ‘My heart’s deliverance is unassailable. This is the last birth. Now there is no renewal of being.’”

– Dhammacakkappavattana sutta, Samyutta Nikaya 56.11

rossum
 
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