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billcu1
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To an extent practicing both. There’s alot in Christianity I don’t go for or have doubts to as concerns interpretation. With saving grace and practicing through Mary you can acheive alot. I use the rosary.
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billcu1
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It might be worth mentioning Shakyamuni went through a period where some of his practice was not working for him. He starved himself with several others who where practising and decided this path was not for him he got up and left and the others there said he was giving up. Then he sat under the bodhi tree. All that works for some doesn’t work for others. There are different temperments.
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notself
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Just to add, the Buddha had 5 teachers and practiced with each one, learning a much as he could from each. He practiced extreme austerities with the last teacher and after deciding it didn’t work, he left to practice on his own. The others accused him of giving up, but of course he wasn’t. None of his teachers reached enlightenment until the Buddha returned enlightened from his solitary practice and taught what he learned to his former teachers.
It is true that practice differs from person to person. Breath meditation may work for one and vipassana meditation may work for another. The path remains the same for both.
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Emese
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I feel the same way…
And there’s another interpretation of “hell” and salvation for example:
“Hell is a spiritual condition that some people are allowed to experience whose goal is to purge aspects of their personality so that they can participate once again in the cycle of reincarnation.” (Hindu NDEr)
“Without physical bodies, feelings of hate and fear are intensified as souls [in hell] vainly try to hide from their enemies. Their only hope is to reincarnate. Then unfortunately when they do, they may forget all about their torment in hell and again lead lives of greed and tyranny. This miserable cycle can continue forever unless they find salvation in one of their lifetimes. Such people really need a savior, since they are not able to help themselves. I’m sure Christ incarnated to help them because he said, ‘I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.’” (Arthur Yensen) near-death.com/experiences/research35.html
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billcu1
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Yes. Sheoul is translated as “Hell” too much in the scriptures and sometimes that’s the “netherworld” which is the place of the dead. You can make a hell for yourself here on earth yes. Tibetan teachings are that there are many hells. Some of heat and fire and some of cold. So cold the skin cracks open. I’ve always thought of Jesus as a bodhisattva. There are 10 levels of that. Not a buddha but close to it. Some don’t even think he’s a bodhissatva. But remember he came as a messiah to his people. Not for us that only changed when they rejected him. If they didn’t another way would’ve been provided for us. I’m sure when Jesus “returns” the christians will be the first to scream “the devil is among us”.
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rossum
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The Buddha says that it is possible to remember past lives, though he does not give explicit instructions as far as I know. The explicit instructions are in the Visuddhimagga, which was written by Buddhaghosa.
The meditation techniques used are generally useful in themselves. Remembering past lives has no purpose other than to remember, and to confirm reincarnation for those who need it confirmed. It is not a requirement for enlightenment.
rossum
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Zachary
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For those Catholics who also subscribe to Buddhism, please know they are incompatible.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=189215&highlight=jesus+buddhist
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=189215&highlight=jesus+buddhist
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Contarini
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The passage Fr. Serpa cites from the CE is pompous rhetoric with little substance. There are two actual substantive points I can see in the article:
- Objection to karma on the grounds that it’s “unscientific,” which is a pretty weird objection. Karma isn’t subject to scientific proof or disproof.
- The “Pelagianism” of Buddhism–its emphasis on individual effort. The problem with this objection (if that’s what the CE is saying–as I said, it’s hard to discern the substance under the dismissive, sneering rhetoric) is that Buddhism obviously isn’t teaching how to be saved. Salvation and enlightenment may be related, but they aren’t the same. Furthermore, it’s quite possible to argue that whatever Buddhists do that leads to enlightenment is by grace (after all, in Catholic theology grace and human effort are not opposed to each other), and some forms of Buddhism do have a doctrine of grace. (Arguably these are among the forms most explicitly contradicting Christianity, since the grace comes from “Amida Buddha” or various other bodhisattvas, but again, Christians can say that the grace is really coming from Christ, and the bigger point is that Buddhism is so diverse that generalizations of the kind the CE makes are dubious at best).
Edwin
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Emese
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Thanks! Good to hear, I suspected that might be the case.
it makes perfect sense!
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Emese
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Zachary,
Thanks for the link, but:
BTW I actually think Jesus talks about karma and reincarnation in the Bible all the time. And the rest of the teachings are pretty much the same…
Thanks for the link, but:
And how can a faith based religion criticise another religion for not being “scientific” ??? Isn’t it a bit absurd…
BTW I actually think Jesus talks about karma and reincarnation in the Bible all the time. And the rest of the teachings are pretty much the same…
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Emese
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And one more thing. The Catholic Church is catholic and not buddhist. So I wouldn’t rely on the C.Church’s opinion when it comes to other religions. If you want to know more about buddhism, ask a buddhist.
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Contarini
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Also, the CE isn’t “the Catholic Church.” It’s just a reference source put together by well-respected, orthodox scholars of a hundred years ago, and given the “imprimatur” which simply means that it doesn’t contradict any Catholic teaching (as defined at that time) outright.
Furthermore, pretty much all Western scholarship on Buddhism a hundred years ago was patronizing and dismissive. Max Muller, the “father” of secular religious studies, regarded Buddhism as a pessimistic, world-denying religion full of gloom and despair, and Christians were happy to pick up on this.
Edwin
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billcu1
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Very good yes. That’s the way it works. You will just get “Well were right and everyone else is wrong.” It’s like people outside of the church saying “Well catholics worship Mary” and that’s not true. What does the church know someone else except rumor.
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billcu1
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I’d like to add too that if you’ve read Ignatius of Loyola’s Examen technique for doing God’s will, it states to examine your emotions over the day. This could be like mindfulness meditation but I wouldn’t trust it too much. I have been told by personal teachers that emotions are confusesd. We are confusesd so our feelings are going to be too. And they are influenced by outside things not just in the spirit world but in our interactions with other people. Until you reach a certain level of purity you’re still tainted. That’s why it’s so important to deal directly with someone. You just can’t start really practicing by reading a book or something on the internet. There is Wong and lung. Or a reading transmission from a lama like I’ve recieved or an empowerment from a Lama R(name removed by moderator)oche to do a Sadhanna or Tantra. I’ve heard christian metaphysical experts tell me there are 3 heavens. That’s book study. What hasn’t been revealed to them is that there’s 6 so before they actually begin working. It’s nice to get the whole story. There are “blinds” put into books and writings without a teacher to decode for you, you’re going to stumble a bit.
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notself
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Is this what you mean by examining emotions and skillful means of mindfulness to bring us to clarity? youtube.com/watch?v=Rd7a9Ur2x0o&list=PLtRPKyjBAlYQAcycb9c1GZWh7M8NXHq-q
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billcu1
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Here’s a good link on mindfulness meditation or samatha (Shamatah it’s pronounced)
shambhalasun.com/?option=content&task=view&id=2125
When I meant searching your feelings I was referring to this technique.
ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-examen/
Number three can be influenced by many other things. But at the beginning point without a teacher you just need to be mindful. But you’re not pure enough to be getting undeceitful feelings. When something arises recognize it and recognize that it is “empty” that is it has no inherent existance. You’ll find a peace most Christians in the church never find. And it’s there it’s unfortunate.
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notself
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Samatha meditation is the same in all traditions of Buddhism. Samatha means tranquility and vipassana means clear seeing but both are descriptions of standard meditation.
Here is a lovely sutta on the results of meditation. accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn35/sn35.204.than.html
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billcu1
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Here’s a question I have for any buddhists. The head of my lineage in the 17th Karmapa www.kagyu.org but they are getting ready to celibrate the 16th Karmapa’s attaining paranirvanna on the 22nd. Now the 17 Karmapa is an incarnation of 16th Gwalya Karmapa. Does this mean the Karmapa lineage is a lineage of buddhas that have given up nirvanna and keep returning? There is a letter that is always left by the Karmapa before he dies discribing where to find him when he reincarnates and when. When the 17th Karmapa was a little older the party went to find him. He told his parents where to put their tents because the party was coming to find him. He had no blocks after a certain age.
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rossum
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AIUI the various lineages of reincarnating Tibetan Lamas are very advanced Bodhisattvas, not Buddhas. The Bodhisattvas delay their own final nirvana in order to return again and again to help others.
YMMV (this is Buddhism after all.
)rossum
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Zachary
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1 - Jesus did not talk about reicarnation, did not suggest it nor was He a monk
2 - You can know about something without believing in it or “being one”
And Catholics who know Catholicism know that buddhism, along with many other “ways of life” or “world views” are not compatible because many are meant to substitute parts or all of the Faith and not simply enhance it.
Finally, if you make a claim like “Jesus taught reincarnation” (which no Catholic or christain scholar would even suggest) you’re wrong about Catholicism and are in no position to make athoritative claims about it.
Fr. Serpa can be harsh at times, but he’s right about Catholicism, which is more than I can say about claims in this thread.
2 - You can know about something without believing in it or “being one”
And Catholics who know Catholicism know that buddhism, along with many other “ways of life” or “world views” are not compatible because many are meant to substitute parts or all of the Faith and not simply enhance it.
Finally, if you make a claim like “Jesus taught reincarnation” (which no Catholic or christain scholar would even suggest) you’re wrong about Catholicism and are in no position to make athoritative claims about it.
Fr. Serpa can be harsh at times, but he’s right about Catholicism, which is more than I can say about claims in this thread.
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