No contrition?

[Thoughtfulone]

Sure it can be done.

The act of the will is a choice…not an emotion.

(you may however be investing some emotional meaning to it that is not intended …such is a different thing)

Yes, choice. If I were confronted with the situation now, I would choose differently. I choose now to follow the Church and not to commit these sins. I am sorry for offending God. Do I WISH they had never happened? Not really. I feel that my sins and the “fun” I had when I was younger have led me to a place where I can look back at my life with fondness and feel like I truly experienced life, so that now I can live a calmer, holier life in the present without wondering what would have been and without regrets. Regret, wishing…all those are feelings I do not have, nor can I force them upon myself. I was not a bad person, I did no harm to others, I had a good time and also did a lot of really productive, great things at the same time. I consider my life to be a learning process through which I become a better person. Without the experiences I have had and the things I have done, I would not be where I am today, so no, I don’t wish they had never happened (some things I do of course, but not all or even most). I reject sin NOW. What else can I do? It’s not doing me any good to stress about it that’s for sure. Maybe God will make me more sorrowful for my sins in the future, but for now, I just don’t feel the weight of them in that way, and I have a hard time really understanding and feeling they seriousness of them and how or if the hurt God when they really weren’t that horrible in my own estimation…if they were, I never would have done those things to begin with.

 

[Bookcat]

Do I WISH they had never happened? Not really. I feel that my sins and the “fun” I had when I was younger have led me to a place where I can look back at my life with fondness and feel like I truly experienced life

… without wondering what would have been and without regrets.

Repentance needs to come in here…and convert the above…

Regret, wishing…all those are feelings I do not have, nor can I force them upon myself. I was not a bad person, I did no harm to others, I had a good time and also did a lot of really productive, great things at the same time. I consider my life to be a learning process through which I become a better person. Without the experiences I have had and the things I have done, I would not be where I am today, so no, I don’t wish they had never happened (some things I do of course, but not all or even most). I reject in NOW. What else can I do? It’s not doing me any good to stress about it that’s for sure.

One can see where God brought good out of your sins…but one has to repent of the sins…have contrition for them…

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Repentance needs to come in here…and convert the above…

One can see where God brought good out of your sins…but one has to repent of the sins…have contrition for them…

Well, that’s where God comes in I guess, because I can’t force it on myself, and I really can’t separate the sin itself from the good that came out of it in my own mind. How can I regret a sin when I’m still reaping the goodness that came from it? Also, I just don’t see pre-marital sex with my future husband or a few wild nights of partying to be that big of a deal.

 

[McatholicN]

Yeah, I’ve been struggling with this too. I used to think that all you had to do for a sufficient confession was be afraid of Hell and/or (I don’t know which) dread the loss of Heaven. Is such the case.

I’m with you, Thoughful one. I don’t see how this is an act of the will. In what way is it an act of the will? Explanation would be greatly appreciated.

cyoram uvehtylorive hatluu

 

[Waiting]

Yes, choice. If I were confronted with the situation now, I would choose differently. I choose now to follow the Church and not to commit these sins. I am sorry for offending God. Do I WISH they had never happened? Not really. I feel that my sins and the “fun” I had when I was younger have led me to a place where I can look back at my life with fondness and feel like I truly experienced life, so that now I can live a calmer, holier life in the present without wondering what would have been and without regrets. Regret, wishing…all those are feelings I do not have, nor can I force them upon myself. I was not a bad person, I did no harm to others, I had a good time and also did a lot of really productive, great things at the same time. I consider my life to be a learning process through which I become a better person. Without the experiences I have had and the things I have done, I would not be where I am today, so no, I don’t wish they had never happened (some things I do of course, but not all or even most). I reject sin NOW. What else can I do? It’s not doing me any good to stress about it that’s for sure. Maybe God will make me more sorrowful for my sins in the future, but for now, I just don’t feel the weight of them in that way, and I have a hard time really understanding and feeling they seriousness of them and how or if the hurt God when they really weren’t that horrible in my own estimation…if they were, I never would have done those things to begin with.

I think you are needlessly punishing yourself with too much introspection. You clearly are sorry for having offended God, as you state here. God has forgiven you through the absolution of the priest in the confessional. God has forgotten your sin, as He promises to do. Now it is for you to forgive yourself and put this all behind you.

 

[Bookcat]

Well, that’s where God comes in I guess, because I can’t force it on myself, and I really can’t separate the sin itself from the good that came out of it in my own mind. How can I regret a sin when I’m still reaping the goodness that came from it? Also, I just don’t see pre-marital sex with my future husband or a few wild nights of partying to be that big of a deal.

This is where conversion comes in…

and prayer…“Lord convert me!! give me true repentance!”.

Some Saints even took some time …

St. Augustine even said “make me chaste…but not yet!”…

He did not yet convert…even the canonized Saints struggled sometimes before they repented …

But later he did convert and turned away from his sins…

while still seeing the good that God was able to bring out of his sins…

the very ones he repented of.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I think you are needlessly punishing yourself with too much introspection. You clearly are sorry for having offended God, as you state here. God has forgiven you through the absolution of the priest in the confessional. God has forgotten your sin, as He promises to do. Now it is for you to forgive yourself and put this all behind you.

Thank you! I really hope you are right.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Yeah, I’ve been struggling with this too. I used to think that all you had to do for a sufficient confession was be afraid of Hell and/or (I don’t know which) dread the loss of Heaven. Is such the case.

I’m with you, Thoughful one. I don’t see how this is an act of the will. In what way is it an act of the will? Explanation would be greatly appreciated.

cyoram uvehtylorive hatluu

Yes, how is this an act of will?

 

[McatholicN]

This is where conversion comes in…

and prayer…“Lord convert me!! give me true repentance!”.

Some Saints even took some time …

St. Augustine even said “make me chaste…but not yet!”…

He did not yet convert…even the canonized Saints struggled sometimes before they repented …

But later he did convert and turned away from his sins…

while still seeing the good that God was able to bring out of his sins…

the very ones he repented of.

But what does it MEAN to be contrite? What steps must be necessary?

I want to be forgiven but I don’t know how to gain contrition?

 

[Thoughtfulone]

But what does it MEAN to be contrite? What steps must be necessary?

I want to be forgiven but I don’t know how to gain contrition?

Exactly my question!

 

[Bookcat]

The sorrow need not be in ones emotions …though such is very good…and we can seek this…but we can not always feel this…

but one can be sorry in ones will, one can will to regret having committed mortal sin…having offended God who loves us and who who is all good etc etc…

one can repent and turn away from all mortal sin and turn to Christ seeking his mercy and forgiveness…with a firm purpose of amendment.

Some practical ideas…

also one can seek to think of the love of God…of how sin was the reason Jesus came and was crucified…one can look at a Crucifix…one an renew ones baptismal promises to renounce sin and Satan and all his works and profess ones love and adherence to Christ…to living ones baptism…ones giving of oneself to him…to following him…to professing the Catholic Faith and rejecting sin, acts of contrition, acts of love…etc…

 

[Bookcat]

CCC

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

1454 The reception of this sacrament ought to be prepared for by an examination of conscience made in the light of the Word of God. the passages best suited to this can be found in the moral catechesis of the Gospels and the apostolic Letters, such as the Sermon on the Mount and the apostolic teachings.53

 

[JAW642]

Yes, choice. If I were confronted with the situation now, I would choose differently. I choose now to follow the Church and not to commit these sins. I am sorry for offending God. Do I WISH they had never happened? Not really. I feel that my sins and the “fun” I had when I was younger have led me to a place where I can look back at my life with fondness and feel like I truly experienced life, so that now I can live a calmer, holier life in the present without wondering what would have been and without regrets. Regret, wishing…all those are feelings I do not have, nor can I force them upon myself. I was not a bad person, I did no harm to others, I had a good time and also did a lot of really productive, great things at the same time. I consider my life to be a learning process through which I become a better person. Without the experiences I have had and the things I have done, I would not be where I am today, so no, I don’t wish they had never happened (some things I do of course, but not all or even most). I reject sin NOW. What else can I do? It’s not doing me any good to stress about it that’s for sure. Maybe God will make me more sorrowful for my sins in the future, but for now, I just don’t feel the weight of them in that way, and I have a hard time really understanding and feeling they seriousness of them and how or if the hurt God when they really weren’t that horrible in my own estimation…if they were, I never would have done those things to begin with.

---

TO: Thoughtfulone

From JAW642 on 01/24/2011

I think the main issue you have here is that you actually and honestly believe that the actions you took in the past were not grave sins and gravely offensive to God. So that is why you have no regrets. And it sounds like today, you still do not believe that it is gravely offensive to God.

So how can you be fully sorry for gravely offending God, when you do not really believe that He was gravely offended, or that He should have been gravely offended ! I can understand how very difficult it is, if not impossible, to be truly sorry for an action, that you believed to be good and not mortally sinful. That sounds pretty logical and reasonable to me. It should sound logical and reasonable to God, as well.

Let’s say that the Catholic Church is unquestionably right in teaching that premarital sex is gravely offensive to God. You had premarital sex with the boy you love, ( your future husband ), so the ‘grave matter’ requirement should be fulfilled. Or you may have believe at the time that because you were doing it with the boy you loved and knew you would marry, that it was not such a ‘grave matter’ issue in the eyes of God.

As for Consent, there’s no question that both you and your future husband gave your Consent to have premarital sex, because you loved each other.

Now the Knowledge requirement seems to be doubtful or at least questionable. You may have known generally what the Catholic Church teaches, but you truly did not believe that what the Church was teaching, was actually not the same as what God was saying to you. You may have been following your own conscience. Or perhaps you simply did not give it much thought, one way or the other, at the time you were young and everything was happening.

So therefore, in my opinion, what you and your husband were doing may not have been MORTALLY sinful for you, ( due to lack of FULL knowledge ), even if you had some sense that you were ‘pushing the envelope’ to some degree.

I’m curious to know, whether or not you NOW believe that premarital sex with someone you truly love, is still gravely offending God?

Also, if you could have believed back then that premarital sex was gravely offensive to God under all circumstances, would you still have gone ahead and ‘done it’ with the boy you love?

If you could have believed, and if you would have honestly tried to abstain from premarital sex, then I think that God will accept that you are contrite and truly sorry.

I think it is contrition enough for you to be sorry for your actions because they may be offensive to God, even though they may not be offensive to YOU ! Also the fact that you are trying to be the best person you can be right now.

Perhaps you should try asking God for the answers to your questions, rather than asking all of us ‘holier than thou’ people on this Catholic Answers Forum ( CAF ).

Regardless of whether premarital sex is always morally wrong or not, in complete honesty, we all must admit that premarital sex is physically enjoyable and good for our human bodies.

---

From JAW642 on 01/24/2011

---

 

[cjforJesus]

Obviously you were not a practicing Catholic then and saw nothing wrong with the “wild partying” as you refer to it,though the definition of that is broad.

Your best bet would be to find a spiritual director to confide in. He would be best able to answer your questions,not just plain everyday folk like those who frequent CAF.

God bless,and I hope you are able to sort this out.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

---

TO: Thoughtfulone

From JAW642 on 01/24/2011

I think the main issue you have here is that you actually and honestly believe that the actions you took in the past were not grave sins and gravely offensive to God. So that is why you have no regrets. And it sounds like today, you still do not believe that it is gravely offensive to God.

So how can you be fully sorry for gravely offending God, when you do not really believe that He was gravely offended, or that He should have been gravely offended ! I can understand how very difficult it is, if not impossible, to be truly sorry for an action, that you believed to be good and not mortally sinful. That sounds pretty logical and reasonable to me. It should sound logical and reasonable to God, as well.

Let’s say that the Catholic Church is unquestionably right in teaching that premarital sex is gravely offensive to God. You had premarital sex with the boy you love, ( your future husband ), so the ‘grave matter’ requirement should be fulfilled. Or you may have believe at the time that because you were doing it with the boy you loved and knew you would marry, that it was not such a ‘grave matter’ issue in the eyes of God.

As for Consent, there’s no question that both you and your future husband gave your Consent to have premarital sex, because you loved each other.

Now the Knowledge requirement seems to be doubtful or at least questionable. You may have known generally what the Catholic Church teaches, but you truly did not believe that what the Church was teaching, was actually not the same as what God was saying to you. You may have been following your own conscience. Or perhaps you simply did not give it much thought, one way or the other, at the time you were young and everything was happening.

So therefore, in my opinion, what you and your husband were doing may not have been MORTALLY sinful for you, ( due to lack of FULL knowledge ), even if you had some sense that you were ‘pushing the envelope’ to some degree.

I’m curious to know, whether or not you NOW believe that premarital sex with someone you truly love, is still gravely offending God?

Also, if you could have believed back then that premarital sex was gravely offensive to God under all circumstances, would you still have gone ahead and ‘done it’ with the boy you love?

If you could have believed, and if you would have honestly tried to abstain from premarital sex, then I think that God will accept that you are contrite and truly sorry.

I think it is contrition enough for you to be sorry for your actions because they may be offensive to God, even though they may not be offensive to YOU ! Also the fact that you are trying to be the best person you can be right now.

Perhaps you should try asking God for the answers to your questions, rather than asking all of us ‘holier than thou’ people on this Catholic Answers Forum ( CAF ).

Regardless of whether premarital sex is always morally wrong or not, in complete honesty, we all must admit that premarital sex is physically enjoyable and good for our human bodies.

---

From JAW642 on 01/24/2011

---

Thanks Jaw for the thoughtful reply! No, if I had really thought that it was gravely offensive to God, I would not have done it, and even now, I don’t think people are going to Hell for having pre-marital sex with the one they love. I think the CC is really hung up on matters of sexuality and as a result, this tends to give us all a complex

So yes, it’s difficult to have true contrition for something you don’t necessarily believe is a grave sin.

I really don’t get this idea that contrition is an act of will. If it is, I suppose I am contrite because at least I WANT to have the contrition necessary for forgiveness? I don’t know…it’s pretty vague.

 

[Bookcat]

CCC

Contrition

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

1454 The reception of this sacrament ought to be prepared for by an examination of conscience made in the light of the Word of God. the passages best suited to this can be found in the moral catechesis of the Gospels and the apostolic Letters, such as the Sermon on the Mount and the apostolic teachings.53

Again…note that Contrition involves a “detestation for the sin committed”

it does not say that one is to “detest the good that God brought out of our sins …despite our sins…”

Yes we have to at least “in our will” have sorrow…to reject and repent etc of our mortal sins…but this does not mean like I said above…a “Catholic Back to the Future”…where we go back in time and change the sins that happened which then changes the future (the present).

Lots of sinful choices can go into a persons life…again think “St. Augustine” …but God can bring good out of them…

St. Augustine certainly repented of his sins…and we have the gift of his book “the Confessions” which would not have been had he not sinned and been not a Christian …before he converted and became a Canonized Saint and Doctor of the Church.

One could say similar things of others…

 

[Bookcat]

and even now, I don’t think people are going to Hell for having pre-marital sex with the one they love. I think the CC is really hung up on matters of sexuality and as a result, this tends to give us all a complex

So yes, it’s difficult to have true contrition for something you don’t necessarily believe is a grave sin.

.

This is an area that needs change…the change of ones mind and heart …the renewal of the mind as Pope Benedict XVI and Paul speak of…

"In the second verse we are given the answer: “Do not be conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is the will of God…” (12: 2). …

Paul makes this process of “recasting” even clearer by saying that we become new if we transform our way of thinking. What has been introduced here with “way of thinking” is the Greek term “nous”. It is a complex word. It may be translated as “spirit”, “sentiments”, “reason”, and precisely, also by “way of thinking”. Thus our reason must become new. This surprises us. We might have expected instead that this would have concerned some attitude: what we should change in our behaviour. But no: renewal must go to the very core. Our way of looking at the world, of understanding reality all our thought must change from its foundations."

–Pope Benedict XVI

June 2009

 

[smichhertz]

Thoughtfulone, please see below:

But what does it MEAN to be contrite? What steps must be necessary?

I want to be forgiven but I don’t know how to gain contrition?

Excellent question!

Many people beat themselves up over this because they see “having contrition” as an on/off switch. You either have it or you don’t. In truth, it’s more like stairway, there are degrees to it. Long story short, as long as you are sorry, in any way, you are fine. Even if it’s just “I had a blast doing that, but I know the Church says its wrong. I don’t get why, but I’m sorry I did something against the teachings of the Church” then it still counts as contrition and your confession is valid.

Think about it for a second, no one is REALLY as sorry as they should be for their sins. Sure, we all are somewhat sorry, but if we truly understood how much even the tiniest sin offends God, we would be practically paralyzed by our guilt. Perhaps this is why God limits our ability to “see” the effects of our sins.

Thoughtfulone:

Based off what you have stated, it sounds to me like you ARE contrite. Therefore, assuming you confessed it, your sins are forgiven.

It seems what truly bothers you is that you aren’t as sorry as you should be (which is true for everyone). Something I find helpful is spending some time before the Blessed Sacrament and meditating on the effects of my sins. I ask the Holy Spirit to give me a little bit more of a glimpse into the effects of my sins. Every sin affects God, yourself, and your neighbor in a negative way. I try and think about how each sin affects the three. Usually I walk away feeling just a little bit more sorry than before. This is also a useful technique for avoiding that sin in the future. If you do this a lot overtime, you will slowly deepen your contrition and become more and more truly sorry for past sins, even though they are already forgiven.

I HIGHLY recommend the book “Frequent Confession” by Fr Benedict Baur. It is extremely useful in giving good techniques for confession and dealing with sin.

I wish you all the best, you are in my prayers!

 

[Bookcat]

Again…note that Contrition involves a “detestation for the sin committed”

it does not say that one is to “detest the good that God brought out of our sins …despite our sins…”

Yes we have to at least “in our will” have sorrow…to reject and repent etc of our mortal sins…but this does not mean like I said above…a “Catholic Back to the Future”…where we go back in time and change the sins that happened which then changes the future (the present).

Lots of sinful choices can go into a persons life…again think “St. Augustine” …but God can bring good out of them…

St. Augustine certainly repented of his sins…and we have the gift of his book “the Confessions” which would not have been had he not sinned and been not a Christian …before he converted and became a Canonized Saint and Doctor of the Church.

One could say similar things of others…

A person say who fornicates…and has a baby from it…has to repent of the sin…it is a mortal sin and has gravely been against God and the truth of human sexuality etc…but that person does not have to “wish the child did not exist”…

God brought out good from his sins…

that good remains…

it is the sins that he is to detest etc …

He might say: “I am sorry for my sins…I repent etc…I thank God though…for the good he has brought me even out of my sins…this little girl …I thank God for her.”

or even “I am sorry for my sins…I cannot get my emotions to work with me here…but I repent and in my will I despise the sins…for they offend my Lord gravely…and I thank God though for the good he still gave me…this little girl…thank you Lord! I love you for I know your love…and am sorry for my sins even though I can not feel it as I would like”

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Thoughtfulone, please see below:

Excellent question!

Many people beat themselves up over this because they see “having contrition” as an on/off switch. You either have it or you don’t. In truth, it’s more like stairway, there are degrees to it. Long story short, as long as you are sorry, in any way, you are fine. Even if it’s just “I had a blast doing that, but I know the Church says its wrong. I don’t get why, but I’m sorry I did something against the teachings of the Church” then it still counts as contrition and your confession is valid.

Think about it for a second, no one is REALLY as sorry as they should be for their sins. Sure, we all are somewhat sorry, but if we truly understood how much even the tiniest sin offends God, we would be practically paralyzed by our guilt. Perhaps this is why God limits our ability to “see” the effects of our sins.

Thoughtfulone:

Based off what you have stated, it sounds to me like you ARE contrite. Therefore, assuming you confessed it, your sins are forgiven.

It seems what truly bothers you is that you aren’t as sorry as you should be (which is true for everyone). Something I find helpful is spending some time before the Blessed Sacrament and meditating on the effects of my sins. I ask the Holy Spirit to give me a little bit more of a glimpse into the effects of my sins. Every sin affects God, yourself, and your neighbor in a negative way. I try and think about how each sin affects the three. Usually I walk away feeling just a little bit more sorry than before. This is also a useful technique for avoiding that sin in the future. If you do this a lot overtime, you will slowly deepen your contrition and become more and more truly sorry for past sins, even though they are already forgiven.

I HIGHLY recommend the book “Frequent Confession” by Fr Benedict Baur. It is extremely useful in giving good techniques for confession and dealing with sin.

I wish you all the best, you are in my prayers!

Thank you, this has been immensely helpful I really appreciate it!