No impediments remain to full communion, Pope tells Orthodox Patriarch [CWN]
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Upgrade25
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I hope that this day comes soon, when Orthodoxy is reunited to Catholicism.
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chero23
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Amen
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Casilda
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Encouraging news but I don’t see this happening in my lifetime.
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Art321
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To be honest, I truly want this to happen! The Latin Church can learn so much from the Eastern Churches, and vice vera! Yet from what I am seeing, there is a lot of hatred of Rome among them…
It got me a bit depressed when many of our Eastern Brethren refer to us as heretics. Much communication still has to occur before any communion even remotely happens…
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chimo
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The dialogue with the Eastern Churches needs understanding on both fronts. The problem with both Churches is they think they are the Church without including the other. The Church of Rome believes she is the Church and the Eastern Orthodox thinks she is the Church. As long as they think this way there will be no unity. The problem of this insistence was caused by a lack of understanding of over 1000 years of what each Church were developing into. I have concluded that the only way towards a unity that may exist will be a different understanding on how that unity will be based upon. In fact I believe our move towards unity must be based upon a different model a more simplified model. It is to my observations that each Church possesses a quality that resembles very much what a parental trait is. For instance if two parents were to raise a family today it will be better if one parent has the gift in disciplining while the other has the gift in mentoring. Without this balance in parenting the children may not be able to achieve this maturity which would benefit them. It is my observations that the Church of Rome has this parental trait to discipline and the Eastern Churches has this parental trait to mentor. The fact is God has given to the two Churches these parental traits but not in the same degree. The Church of Rome is lacking in some degree the parental trait of mentoring while the Eastern Churches lack some degree in the parental trait of disciplining. I am talking about the structures of each Church and not individuality. The strength of each Church will help fill in the weakness of each Church. This is why God has given us certain strengths and weaknesses. We need each other because of this understanding. If we follow through with this understanding we will rely more on each other than ever before.
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Augustine
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The headline is a bit disingenuous, for Francis said that “there is no longer any impediment to Eucharistic communion which cannot be overcome.” IOW, he recognizes that there are impediments, yet he is optimistic about overcoming them, which is nothing new.
However, it’s clear that communion with the Eastern Orthodox churches is not a priority Francis. Benedict was much more forthcoming, suggesting that he was open to letting go of privileges of the papacy, as understood by the Catholic Church, in order to remove the perhaps greatest obstacle to full communion between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Catholic Church.
Yet, given that the Catholic impetus was subdued with Francis, I wager that the Orthodox will prefer to wait maybe a couple of centuries to see if Rome is serious about full reunion.
Pax Christi
However, it’s clear that communion with the Eastern Orthodox churches is not a priority Francis. Benedict was much more forthcoming, suggesting that he was open to letting go of privileges of the papacy, as understood by the Catholic Church, in order to remove the perhaps greatest obstacle to full communion between Eastern Orthodoxy and the Catholic Church.
Yet, given that the Catholic impetus was subdued with Francis, I wager that the Orthodox will prefer to wait maybe a couple of centuries to see if Rome is serious about full reunion.
Pax Christi
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Art321
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These two points, ok?
- I can certainly understand as to why each side would want to believe such a thing. It would be immensely hard to say that the visible Church of Christ has been divided for the last 1,000 years no? And I don’t quite believe that is the position of Rome, brother! Through my readings, it is proclaimed that all bishops, priests, and laity in communion with the Bishop of Rome make the fullness of the Church, thus making the statement subsists in the Catholic Church; yet the Eastern Churches are still a part of the Church of Christ as they have valid Sacred Tradition, valid orders, and valid sacraments! So while the terminology can be a bit confusing, from my perspective Rome doesn’t view the Eastern Churches as being outside of the communion as they view us. Rome sees our communion imperfect, yet there is still a communion there.
- I haven’t quite seen this but I’m not one to quite argue over this. And if I can say your Divine Liturgies are so beautiful!
If I may ask, which of the Eastern Churches do you preside in?
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Art321
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Privileges such as?
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Augustine
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I don’t recall and my googling skills proved to be insufficient for the task, sorry…
Pax Christi
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chimo
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One way to show to you that the Church of Rome leans more towards disciplining than to mentoring is the incredible detailed catechism, a beautiful catechism which the Church of Rome teaches to her people even from a young age. That is part and parcel of the discipline structure which the Church of Rome enjoys. The Eastern Churches however do not have this detailed catechism as does the Church of Rome. The question is how does the Eastern Churches pass on this teaching. The fact is the Eastern Churches go about it through a mentoring or nurturing trait. You can learn about life through both traits. The discipline trait tells you for it is very much like giving you the “Sermon on the Mount”. The mentoring or nurturing state is more involved in listening to you and it is very much helping you to live out the “Semon of the Mount”. Do you see what I am getting at? These two great Churches go about teaching through two different but complimentary ways which really are what the two main parental traits are needed when you are instructing children in any family. You need the right balance of disciplining and mentoring. Too much disciplining or too much mentoring is not the way but a balance is necessary for the development of any child. Since this true for the family it must be true for the Churches. In a very beautiful development God has given to our Church the parental trait to discipline more to the Church of Rome while giving the parental trait to mentor more to the Eastern Churches. This is why we need each other why we belong to each other. We can lean on each other’s strengths.These two points, ok?
- I can certainly understand as to why each side would want to believe such a thing. It would be immensely hard to say that the visible Church of Christ has been divided for the last 1,000 years no? And I don’t quite believe that is the position of Rome, brother! Through my readings, it is proclaimed that all bishops, priests, and laity in communion with the Bishop of Rome make the fullness of the Church, thus making the statement subsists in the Catholic Church; yet the Eastern Churches are still a part of the Church of Christ as they have valid Sacred Tradition, valid orders, and valid sacraments! So while the terminology can be a bit confusing, from my perspective Rome doesn’t view the Eastern Churches as being outside of the communion as they view us. Rome sees our communion imperfect, yet there is still a communion there.
- I haven’t quite seen this but I’m not one to quite argue over this. And if I can say your Divine Liturgies are so beautiful!
I have grown up in the Antiochian Orthodox Church baptized in the Greek Orthodox Church worshipping with the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. My early formation was worshipping as a Catholic at the Mass in the first 28 years of my life but my father told me about my baptism in the Eastern Church and that was when I had decided to discover this Church I had never known. My perspective in living in both Churches Catholic and Eastern has given me a much better appreciation of both Churches. Thank you for asking.
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Upgrade25
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I’m curious, what divided the united Catholic Church into Catholic and Orthodox?
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Art321
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The worst thing of all time!! Politics!!
One more reason why I hate politics…
As it may have been that, at the time it was also because of a gradual drifting apart that was happening throughout the centuries as we each became different culturally and had different ways to worship. Yet the tip of the iceberg was the Sacking of Constantinople during the Crusades during the Middle Ages.
I also want to point out the name of the united Christian Church was also simply the Catholic Church.
Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church- St. Ignatius of Antioch
This was written in the Letter to the Smyrnaeans around the second century I believe. I also imagine that the Eastern Churches took the name Orthodox after the schism to differentiate from the Church of Rome. So in case reunion ever happens, we can at least keep the name!
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Upgrade25
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Why couldn’t the Crusader leaders just obey the Pope and NOT sack Constantinople?The worst thing of all time!! Politics!!
One more reason why I hate politics…
As it may have been that, at the time it was also because of a gradual drifting apart that was happening throughout the centuries as we each become different culturally and had different ways to worship. Yet the tip of the iceberg was the Sacking of Constantinople during the Crusades during the Middle Ages.
I also want to point out the name of the united Christian Church was also simply the Catholic Church.
Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude of the people also be; even as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church- St. Ignatius of Antioch
This was written in the Letter to the Smyrnaeans around the second century I believe. I also imagine that the Eastern Churches took the name Orthodox after the schism to differentiate from the Church of Rome. So in case reunion ever happens, we can at least keep the name!
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Art321
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Yes, I see now! Beautifully said! It does make sense! May this be one of many things we can do to help one another! May God be with you brother!
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Art321
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Greed I imagine?
I do believe that if truly we had come to the genuine assistance of our Eastern brothers and sisters, whatever drift there was could have been healed… sadly a terrible tragedy happened and the Latin Church still bears that shame…
On a positive note, Saint Pope John Paul 2 did apologize to our Eastern Brethren, yet such a wound is still felt by many though it has been centuries since it happened. Of course, I can imagine such a thing is not easily forgotten…
Prayer, forgiveness, and contrition on the Latin Church must be done in some way.
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chimo
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Thank you. May He be with you too. My early formation from been instructed in the Catholic Church has helped me to teach this formation to the Eastern Church. To give it some humor about my formation I went to a Catholic priest and he asked me about this. I told him l have two faces for when I am with a Catholic I put my Orthodox face on so that the person may learn something of the Eastern Churches and when i am with an Orthodox I usually put on my Catholic face so that the person may learn something about the Catholic Church. He than asked me what face do I put on when I am with a Protestant? I said both my faces! You never know when you are in need of both of them. This is not a statement against the Protestants personally for I do have some Protestant friends but a little help goes a long way when we are discussing the Church.
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redbaron162
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The situation was a bit more complicated. While greed may have indeed been apart of it you also siege of Nicaea during the first crusade which many in the west viewed as a betrayal against the crusaders, this lead to lasting distrust between the two. In addition the Venetians applied significant political and economic pressure on the 4th crusadeGreed I imagine?
I do believe that if truly we had come to the genuine assistance of our Eastern brothers and sisters, whatever drift there was could have been healed… sadly a terrible tragedy happened and the Latin Church still bears that shame…
On a positive note, Saint Pope John Paul 2 did apologize to our Eastern Brethren, yet such a wound is still felt by many though it has been centuries since it happened. Of course, I can imagine such a thing is not easily forgotten…
Prayer, forgiveness, and contrition on the Latin Church must be done in some way.
A
Augustine
Guest
Though I could not find Benedict’s statement, at least he’s realistically acknowledging that the only doctrine impeding full communion between Catholics and Eastern orthodox are the privileges of the pope over collegiality and synodality (the form of governance in the East, including, at the local level, the Catholic East).
The fact of the matter is that, starting in the Late Middle Age, the pope became rather imperial (red shoes was an exclusive privilege of the Byzantine emperors), going beyond, in degree, the historical role exercised by the patriarch of Rome.
I think that the bulk of the impediments could be dealt with in canon law, but there’d still remain a few that the Catholic Church would have to tread carefully, for they might brush with doctrine.
Given that the Catholic Church moves ever so slowly and the Eastern Orthodox Churches move even more slowly, save a miracle, it won’t be until a few centuries when the Church is one again, regrettably.
Pax Christi
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Vaseljen
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Actually, 15 years ago or something, Eastern Orthodox Church and Oriental Orthodox Church signed a document which says that both Churches have preserved the SAME faith of the fathers.
Oriental Orthodox Church said that they do not teach that Christ had only one nature, but that they refused to accept “Nestorian Wording” that was used at the 4th Ecumenical Council 451.
The two Churches are now in, not short, process of reunion.
But i don’t see any possible unity with the Roman-Catholic Church any time soon.
Oriental Orthodox Church said that they do not teach that Christ had only one nature, but that they refused to accept “Nestorian Wording” that was used at the 4th Ecumenical Council 451.
The two Churches are now in, not short, process of reunion.
But i don’t see any possible unity with the Roman-Catholic Church any time soon.
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