No Kneelers in some catholic churches?

[jcld]

It is a good point about cultural traditions of respect. I think that does get complicated if you are from America (the melting pot of the world). We stand out of respect during our National Anthem and Pledge of Allegiance. We would likely shake our President’s hand, not kneel at his feet, so I don’t think kneeling is probably engrained in our culture.

Ok … it does get complicated… do what you wish… I have no further say after these and I’ll move on to other threads hehehe You have free will, and you do what the angels did, you can do what the devil did, you can do what both angels and devil did… You have free will anyway We all have free will…

king vs president,
… king ≠ president …
… a president can always be replaced by the next president …
… a king will always have his kingdom…
… anyone can run for president ( if {and only if} his age ≽35 and he’s a natural born US citizen …
… only an heir of the king (or another king) can replace a king that just died …
… not much royalty there for a commoner president …

mathematically,
… any mortal king < Jesus Christ …
… any president < Jesus Christ …
… any premier/prime minister < Jesus Christ …
… Jesus Christ = God …

Micheas (Micah) 6:6
[6] What shall I offer to the Lord that is worthy? wherewith shall I kneel before the high God? shall I offer holocausts unto him, and calves of a year old?

 

[Damien_haha]

Shame a ***** who won’t get on her knees!

 

[Peter_J]

Originally Posted by UncleBill View Post
I didnt realize this was the Traditional"LATIN RITE" forum. I thought it was for ALL Traditional Catholics.

Hi Bill and jcld. In principle I quite agree with what you’re both saying; but also keep in mind that the majority (I think) of ECs don’t check this subforum often (including myself, apparently, as I’m 5 months late responding ). Which is not in any way to say Don’t discuss ECism here. It’s just that when you do, most ECs probably won’t see it.

 

[Aramis]

All Catholic churches should have kneelers…always.

Not all Catholic Churches are of the Roman Rite.

Byzantine Rite Catholics do not kneel in prayer as a general rule, except during Great Lent and St. Phillip’s Fast (Advent).

Even so, the rubrics for church architecture for the Roman Rite do not require kneelers. Nor do they require seats of any kind.

Seats aren’t even normative for the Byzantine rite.

Beware blanket statements.

 

[theistgal]

Not all Catholic Churches are of the Roman Rite.

Byzantine Rite Catholics do not kneel in prayer as a general rule, except during Great Lent and St. Phillip’s Fast (Advent).

Even so, the rubrics for church architecture for the Roman Rite do not require kneelers. Nor do they require seats of any kind.

Seats aren’t even normative for the Byzantine rite.

Beware blanket statements.

Well said!

Also, I’ve been in churches that did not even have pews, but only folding chairs - and anyone who wanted to kneel just did so - right on the bare floor.

We’re a little spoiled these days compared to some of our hardy pioneer ancestors.

 

[AdvocatusVerbum]

New parish by my parents has no kneelers and I didn’t like it one bit. I didn’t like the architecture in general, though. I think it was folding chairs, too. In a band new building.

 

[Cojuanco]

Well, the nearest place of Mass has no kneelers. But that’s because it’s not held in a Catholic church, but in a common building used for other purposes as well (neither the university nor the local land company is interested in having more places of worship around - the one because unfortunately many are anticlerical, the other because churches don’t yield income for them). Pews with kneelers would be difficult to store.

 

[Aramis]

I don’t know, but at the time our parish was built the pastor believed that between the two choices, standing was going to become the norm. He believed this in good faith. It had something to do with celebrating the joy of the consecration rather than kneeling in submission. We follow what our pastor tells us to do. Right now, we stand. If kneelers are installed, we’ll kneel. If he asked us to try to kneel on the ground, we’d do that too.

I am not arguing that standing is better than kneeling, only that it is not in and of itself disrespectful.

The canons of the 1st Ecumenical Council in Nice include a disciplinary canon requiring all prayers be made on Sundays and between Easter and Pentecost to be made standing.

Canon XX.
Forasmuch as there are certain persons who kneel on the Lord’s Day and in the days of Pentecost, therefore, to the intent that all things may be uniformly observed everywhere (in every parish), it seems good to the holy Synod that prayer be made to God standing.

(ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf214.vii.vi.xxx.html)

Rome has long since decided the unitive value of shared posture was outweighed by the difference in the underlying meaning of kneeling in a social context between the Roman and Byzantine halves of the Empire.

That said, the Bishop of a place may dictate alternate postures except for the actual act of communing, which within the Roman Rite, kneeling to receive may always be chosen by the communicant.

 

[Peter_J]

Well said!

Also, I’ve been in churches that did not even have pews, but only folding chairs - and anyone who wanted to kneel just did so - right on the bare floor.

To my mind, that in itself is no problem; but in my experience, in such churches people usually sit for all the parts where they would usually stand – including the consecration.



Fortunately we Eastern Catholics don’t have that tendency.

We’re a little spoiled these days compared to some of our hardy pioneer ancestors.

Well I never!

(That last part’s a joke.)

 

[theistgal]

To my mind, that in itself is no problem; but in my experience, in such churches people usually sit for all the parts where they would usually stand – including the consecration.

http://www.byzcath.org/forums/images/icons/default/eek.gif

Fortunately we Eastern Catholics don’t have that tendency.
Well I never!

(That last part’s a joke.)

Yes, I get it! finally!

Seriously, perhaps that’s something our Latin Rite friends might want to consider, if they’re unfortunate to be attending Mass in a church where every effort has been made to keep them from kneeling at the proper places: your Eastern brothers and sisters do sympathize with you and support your right to use your proper liturgical postures, just as I’m sure you support ours, or would if you knew what they were.

 

[White_Peony]

The Carmelite Monastery near me doesn’t have kneelers

 

[Mike30]

Kneelers are a convenience not a requirement. Kneel on the floor. It not that bad. If u are unable to kneel on the florr then stand or sit.

Simple solution.

 

[Salvelinus]

I go to mass at a diocese mission that offers mass daily. Since its a mission, the masses are held in a chapel. The chapel doesnt have kneelers, but everyone kneels.

During the Novus Ordo masses offered everyone kneels during the consecration and other times called in the new mass rubrics.
During the Traditional mass, (low mass) everyone kneels practically throughout the whole mass, standing during the Gospel and the Last Gospel reading. (Painful sometimes! Ouch!)