No more vocations in a convent... What happened?

[Bebekoualy]

Hello everyone,

I frequent a convent which has no more vocations, no longer attractive.
Simpler with the chant, the oldest incapable of helping to the detriment of the youngest who were brave enough to say “yes” to God…
I can no longer stand to see such a life, but I can’t help doting on this community. I pray for their revitalization daily, but there wouldn’t be a postulant turning up. The convent does no longer attract young people, it’s so desperate… and I’m sick with this.

I proposed several things so that they might have new vocations. Like being more open, accepting Latin Mass once a month, or Latin divine offices or things like that, to add young voices for the Chant (if Traditional People would come). But they wouldn’t… I know not why. :imsorry: I think if they went a bit back to Tradition, they might have more vocations despite their age.

Do you think there was something wrong with them to undergo such fate? I heard that some things could generate this vicious circle… no more vocations.

Please, answer me and give me advice to help them. :bighanky: They’re my great love.

 

[Filioque]

I pray that this too has come to an end. Or at least will soon. There have been times throughout the history of salvation (Old Testament, and Chrisitan Era) when the populus including the clergy have been lax in their Faith. The rediscovery of what was almost lost usually re-invigorates the faithful.

There is an old Jewish saying, “What the son wants to forget, the grandson wants to remember.”

I’ve met Catholics who after Vatican II swallowed the abandonment of eveything they saw as derived from the Middle Ages, as barnicles to be scraped off the hull of the Barque of Peter. Unfortunatly many could not distinguish between barnicles and the nails holding the hull in place. Today we see the children and grandchildren of some of these people as well as Protestants who have discovered the Catholic Faith rediscovering what other people have simple not appreciated.

Sometimes a good pruning is what a tree needs to encourage it’s growth.

 

[ljubim]

Definitely getting the Latin mass. I have thought about becoming a nun (I think the answer is no though) and I knew if it ever did happen, I’d find a place somewhere in the world, no matter where, with daily mass in Latin. There’s almost no motivation to join a convent that’s run by the people who helped enact the “reforms.” Honestly there’s a lot of people out there with not just a dislike of tradition, but a hate of it. The vocations will find the tradition, wherever it is. Because if you care that much about your faith, you will gravitate to tradition like a magnet, especially us young people who are tradition-starved.

 

[John21652]

Definitely getting the Latin mass. I have thought about becoming a nun (I think the answer is no though) and I knew if it ever did happen, I’d find a place somewhere in the world, no matter where, with daily mass in Latin. There’s almost no motivation to join a convent that’s run by the people who helped enact the “reforms.” Honestly there’s a lot of people out there with not just a dislike of tradition, but a hate of it. The vocations will find the tradition, wherever it is. Because if you care that much about your faith, you will gravitate to tradition like a magnet, especially us young people who are tradition-starved.

It’s not just the young who are starved of tradition. Everyone is. I recall the changes that flowed fron V2 and many, many people were rocked. They were rocked because what were the foundations of their faith, their very lifestyles, were pulled down. In the process the Church became too like the rest of the world and lost its magic, its ‘otherness’ and that majesty, mystery and tradition which attracted both criticism and loyalty, faded away. It needs reinvigorating and very fast.

 

[bpbasilphx]

You’ve not said what order this convent is.

Like any group of people, religious communities are born, flourish, and finally die.

You see this in cities, especially small towns, all the time.

As important as the monasteries of Cluny and Citeax and La Trappe were, are they active today?

 

[MIKE46]

You’ve not said what order this convent is.

Like any group of people, religious communities are born, flourish, and finally die.

You see this in cities, especially small towns, all the time.

As important as the monasteries of Cluny and Citeax and La Trappe were, are they active today?

How about the monasteries at Mt Athos. Are they still around?

 

[Filioque]

You’ve not said what order this convent is.

Like any group of people, religious communities are born, flourish, and finally die.

You see this in cities, especially small towns, all the time.

As important as the monasteries of Cluny and Citeax and La Trappe were, are they active today?

Cluny, La Trappe and Citeax live on in the foundations that have since been established. The main reason for the demise of the original monastic foundations was the French Revolution which did as much damage to the Catholic Faith as the attempted destruction in England, and the persecution of the Church in Russia. What many are unaware of is that many countries looked at as Catholic have a history of persecution of the Church Mexico for example during and after the Revolution tried to supress the Church, Public worship was forbidden, and priests were executed, (along with Lay leaders) Only recently have clergy and religious been allowed to wear clericals and habits in public. Church property is still owned by the State in France and Mexico.

 

[corsair]

I’m really impressed with the group of CMRI nuns that came back to the Roman church and now have four new postulants. (as of last summer). These Nuns are young and very traditional. They had the opportunity to be housed in an EF environment but chose to work within the modern church because of the need for reverence and orthodoxy. Now that took a lot of prayers.

May God Bless their work.

 

[Rence]

Hello everyone,

I frequent a convent which has no more vocations, no longer attractive.
Simpler with the chant, the oldest incapable of helping to the detriment of the youngest who were brave enough to say “yes” to God…
I can no longer stand to see such a life, but I can’t help doting on this community. I pray for their revitalization daily, but there wouldn’t be a postulant turning up. The convent does no longer attract young people, it’s so desperate… and I’m sick with this.

I proposed several things so that they might have new vocations. Like being more open, accepting Latin Mass once a month, or Latin divine offices or things like that, to add young voices for the Chant (if Traditional People would come). But they wouldn’t… I know not why. :imsorry: I think if they went a bit back to Tradition, they might have more vocations despite their age.

Do you think there was something wrong with them to undergo such fate? I heard that some things could generate this vicious circle… no more vocations.

Please, answer me and give me advice to help them. :bighanky: They’re my great love.

Without knowing anything about this order, I’ll just say, no, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them. They may have just ran their course. There may be another order out there that is flourishing like yours used to. Is that the case? Is there another more popular and growing order near you that is picking up their applicants?

That I know of, there are no covents around here where i live at all. When I was a kid, they closed the convent that was attached to my Cathoic Church rectory and school. The nuns were long gone shortly after I graudated from grammar school. The only two seminaries in town were closed when I was a kid. If a boy wanted to go to a seminary, he’d have to go to the next state. And at least I knew that. I have no clue where a potential canditate for a sister’s order would go.

As to people not wanting to be nuns, have YOU considered joining this order that you love? And I don’t mean NOW, because now you may have other obligations, but at one time did you ever consider joining them? If not, why?

Have you considered helping draw applicants? I think the only way you’re going to get answers to your questions is to ask people.

From my perspective (and of course, it may be different if you ask ten different people because we probably all come from different places), just like every culture, our culture is evolving and aspirations for one’s future has changed. In my lifetime I have never met ONE person who was going into the convent, or talking about it, or talked to me about considering it. When I was a small child I attended Perochial school, then I went to a Catholic grammar school (BVMs and Jesuits), then a Catholic high school (OSB), and I even graduated from a small Catholic college (SOCBVM), that was annexed by the huge Catholic university of Jesuits next door. And again, I’ve never met anyone even interested in an order that I know of. All the women I have met have been interested in going to college and graduating to work in their chosen field, to get married and start a family, or even to not rush into marriage, but build on their careers. However, when I was younger, I also worked in a small grocery store in which everyone else was Eastern Orthodox and old-world Greek and Assyrian Catholics, and all of the girls aspired to get married and raise families. Most of them didn’t even go to college.

I don’t know why it’s not something people don’t do anymore. But it would be a wonderful research project. Have you checked any research projects that discussed this trend? Surely the Church has some reports available somewhere?

 

[malphono]

I’ll echo bpbasilphx in asking what order or (more likely) congregation is involved? Or is it, perhaps, an independent house? What is (or was) its particular work (charism)? Are they nuns (in the canonical sense) or religious sisters?

There are, as many know, a variety of congregations of religious sisters in the US which were once (in pre-conciliar times) vibrant communities. In many cases (in the dreaded “spirit of Vatican II”) they abandoned their traditional work (not to mention the habit) in favor of being pseudo-social workers. They have “gone grey” in the post-conciliar years, where the average age is 60+ and where postulants and novices are as rare as hen’s teeth. Yet they stiffly maintain their post-conciliar stance. (And of course this is part of PP Benedict XVI’s on-going investigation into the matter.) Could this convent be of that mindset?

Of course, it’s also possible that the community is one of nuns (in the canonical sense). From what I have seen, the dreaded “spirit of Vatican II” affected those to a much lesser degree. If so, and if it’s not one of the few independent houses, the Mother House should be involved.

 

[manualman]

The world changed and the people began to doubt that the Church really was the depository of revelation. They decided that the meaning and purpose of life could be found in career, business, marriage, hobbies, and activism but rejected the idea that true happiness could ever be found in poverty, chastity and obedience. Making it worse, families changed and parents who contracepted or aborted their third, fourth (and so on) children were not supportive of their precious one or two kids ‘wasting’ their lives in the church.

I’m not convinced that it is habits or chant or latin masses that orders need to regain their vitality and vocations. What they need is the humility to embrace catholicism as something that changes THEM instead of something that needs changing, a faith to believe that God can do incredible things through ordinary and obscure work, and a trust that God will always take care of them regardless of obstacles. Orders like that are few - and prosperous!

 

[gkirk]

I’m shocked you think a Latin Mass - or any other service in Latin - would attract candidates in 2010. Yes, in the days of Latin, our seminaries and religious houses were full. I was a postulant in '57, so I know the “inside”. But it wasn’t English that caused the rupture, and it certainly isn’t Latin that will heal it.

It’s unwise to propose measures when you didn’t experience the scene before Vatican II. Things were different inside and outside the Church. We’re living in an age of rampant materialism, and the call to religious life is muffled by the howls and screams of self-indulgence. Novus Ordo Masses can be just as spiritually and aesthetically pleasing as they sometimes were in the “old days”, as anyone can see on Vatican broadcasts (EWTN). So please look elsewhere for incentives to become involved with consecrated lifestyles.

 

[Rence]

The world changed and the people began to doubt that the Church really was the depository of revelation. They decided that the meaning and purpose of life could be found in career, business, marriage, hobbies, and activism but rejected the idea that true happiness could ever be found in poverty, chastity and obedience. Making it worse, families changed and parents who contracepted or aborted their third, fourth (and so on) children were not supportive of their precious one or two kids ‘wasting’ their lives in the church.

Well I realize that living the life in an order is way different, but don’t forget that that people can lead pious lives as married people. Before there were Priests, Nuns, Deacons and even Rabbi’s, there were Adam and Eve who were told to go forth and multiply. So I think that it takes a special person to not have those aspirations, and aspires instead to live a life of chastity, obedience, poverty, etc. And I forgot to mention in my above post, that I don’t know very much about Opus Dei, but when I was a teenager I was introduced to a few members, and there was a whole building of people living in an Opus Dei dormatory of sorts. That was an additional way that single people could lead pious lives. And I don’t know about all Opus Dei people, but the ones I was introduced to appeared VERY dedicated to their lifestyle. Though, I have to admit, I did not gravitate to them either, for personal reasons that would just hijack this thread

I’m not convinced that it is habits or chant or latin masses that orders need to regain their vitality and vocations. What they need is the humility to embrace catholicism as something that changes THEM instead of something that needs changing, a faith to believe that God can do incredible things through ordinary and obscure work, and a trust that God will always take care of them regardless of obstacles. Orders like that are few - and prosperous!

**I agree: a person needs to answer a call to the lifestyle. I think that tempting people in with habits, chats or latin masses isn’t going to do any good. It might entice some people, but really, shouldn’t they be enticed by the vocation itself? They have to want to do it and not only do it, but live it.

In my opinion, children were recruited too young to know what they wanted and sometimes it worked, but sometimes it didn’t. I think people really need to think about being the best they can be in any vocation, and that includes the clergy**

 

[LoyalViews]

I am afraid my friend, that I have the same problem with two convents near where I live. One of the convents is returning to tradition … for it has the Latin Mass every Sunday in their Oratory (Una Voce) and is very slowly returning to their habit. These are the Mercy Sisters. Then there is the other Convent, the Presentation Sisters…who are a bit stuck in the 60’s. I have also started a thred in the prayer intentions about “Two Convents clode to where I live”. I will pray for the convent near you! :byzsoc:

 

[gkirk]

Thank you, Rence, for your well thought out reply. The one convent in our diocese that has maintained its numbers had to go to the Philippines for recruits. All the local women eventually left, and who could blame them. They were kept as virtual prisoners, almost totally cut off from the world they wanted to serve, just like the nuns of old. Anyone feeling called to a life of medieval habits, medieval chant, and medieval life in general can still find appropriate convents somewhere. But they might not, and should not, be in your town or mine.

 

[Bebekoualy]

I’m really impressed with the group of CMRI nuns that came back to the Roman church and now have four new postulants. (as of last summer). These Nuns are young and very traditional. They had the opportunity to be housed in an EF environment but chose to work within the modern church because of the need for reverence and orthodoxy. Now that took a lot of prayers.

May God Bless their work.

I had a look at their website. They look so great, so wholehearted! I don’t know why traditional nuns always look more attractive, they make you love Catholicism. So fervent, and so on. Are there any in the UK? I’d like to investigate…

Rence I answered in your message:

…]There may be another order out there that is flourishing like yours used to. Is that the case? Is there another more popular and growing order near you that is picking up their applicants? **
Young people aren’t interested in Religious Life in my diocese, and most monasteries haven’t got young vocations.**
…]

As to people not wanting to be nuns, have YOU considered joining this order that you love? And I don’t mean NOW, because now you may have other obligations,** but at one time did you ever consider joining them? If not, why? ** Yes, I’d say yes to God if He called me there. But what doesn’t attract me is the quality of the Chant (with not enough young voices) the lack of Tradition, the age of people frequenting the place… But if it was for God only, I’d join them with joy!!
**
Have you considered helping draw applicants?** I’m doing it, through the web. But young people generally never come back once they’ve seen the place. They might not like the place. It’s not attractive because of the age of the community. I think the only way you’re going to get answers to your questions is to ask people.
…]

I don’t know why it’s not something people don’t do anymore. But it would be a wonderful research project. Have you checked any research projects that discussed this trend? Surely the Church has some reports available somewhere? I know I have to finish my studies and work if the Lord wants me there.

Malpono, my answer is next to your message.

I’ll echo bpbasilphx in asking what order or (more likely) congregation is involved? Or is it, perhaps, an independent house? What is (or was) its particular work (charism)? Are they nuns (in the canonical sense) or religious sisters?

There are, as many know, a variety of congregations of religious sisters in the US which were once (in pre-conciliar times) vibrant communities. In many cases (in the dreaded “spirit of Vatican II”) they abandoned their traditional work (not to mention the habit) in favor of being pseudo-social workers. They have “gone grey” in the post-conciliar years**, where the average age is 60+ and where postulants and novices are as rare as hen’s teeth.** Yet they stiffly maintain their post-conciliar stance. (And of course this is part of PP Benedict XVI’s on-going investigation into the matter.) Could this convent be of that mindset?

Of course, it’s also possible that the community is one of nuns (in the canonical sense). From what I have seen, the dreaded “spirit of Vatican II” affected those to a much lesser degree. If so, and if it’s not one of the few independent houses, the Mother House should be involved.

They’re from the St Benedict Order. They’re are part of the Ordo cisterciensis.
It was a vibrant community before the Council. I saw a picture of them with the old habit (traditional one they used to have) and their smiles, it was fervent, lively and tougher too.
Indeed, they now are so old and the average is about 60, there has been thirty years without vocations… but new brave ones joined them a few years ago and they “maintain” the community…

Gkirk, I just thought that being open to Traditionalists might open new doors to this community. Accepting TLM in a way shows that we accept them, and we are in favour of unity in the Church. But rejecting TLM is excluding them, whereas these nuns could accept it, as they had TLM for years and years forty years ago.

 

[PaulinVA]

I’ll make a few observations, put on my asbestos gloves, and wait for replies.

1. There are a bazillion orders of Sisters. Yes, they each have their own charism, but they are so fragmented that it is becoming hard for many of them to survive. Fewer larger orders would have a better chance of survival.
2. The last 40 years have diminished the perception of the worth of our religious. It is viewed as somehow being second class in the Church. They aren’t, but it’s a hard sell these days…
3. Many orders have gone off the deep end of the liberal side. At least that’s the perception.
4. Since many of the small orders are aging, to enter that order is to commit to caring for the older sisters instead of participating in the charism of the order.
5. Pastel polyester double knit does not a habit make…

 

[malphono]

They’re from the St Benedict Order. They’re are part of the Ordo cisterciensis.
It was a vibrant community before the Council. I saw a picture of them with the old habit (traditional one they used to have) and their smiles, it was fervent, lively and tougher too.
Indeed, they now are so old and the average is about 60, there has been thirty years without vocations… but new brave ones joined them a few years ago and they “maintain” the community…

I’m somewhat surprised to hear that these are Cistercian nuns. Is it a truly cloistered abbey or is it a house of externs? Is it O.Cist or OCSO? From what I’ve heard, the Cistercian cloisters (O.Cist) retained the habit (for the most part, at least) and their liturgical observance. I’ve heard fewer encouraging things about the OCSO: they seem to have been less faithful to their origins than the O.Cist.

 

[Caritas11]

What a wonderful love you show in your concern for this community of religious women!

Not so very long ago His Holiness, Benedict XVI encouraged communities of religious to look to, and to return to, the charism of their founding fathers and mothers.

You have not indicated just what about this community of religious women evokes the particular love of which you write.

Perhaps it is you, yourself, who bear the light of the founder(s) of this order. Perhaps you are a member of a third order of this second order of professed religious.

Whatever the situation you shall find the particular answer you seek in one place…the place where you enter into each and every day for prayer…that place, that cloister of the heart is where you shall find the love which is missing amidst your beloved religious sisters (or nuns).

In Caritas we remember that the father of lies is most persistent and aggressively pursues priests (secular and religious) and religious women. We also know that the infidelity of these called and chosen is most painful to Our Lord and Our Lady.

With this in mind it seems to me that you have a particular apostolate in this regard…and that is…to pray this community back to their roots, back to their particular work within The Church Militant and back to their sensibilities in regard to what they professed.

In Domino per Domina nostra Divinae Gratiae,

 

[tiffinwood]

check out www.nashvilledominican.org. This is a wonderful vibrant community that kept their habits and devotions and have plenty of posutulants every year. They recently added a $45 milion dollar addition to their 1860’s motherhouse to accomodate all their community. They taught me, my children and now my grandchild.