No Mortal Sin?

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It also bears pointing out that the knowledge requirement does not always provide an excuse, because often we blind ourselves by our own malice in our hearts. St. Robert Bellarmine explains:

“Similarly those who sin in the malice of their hearts may always plead their ignorance, which is nevertheless not an excuse for their sin since it does not precede it but accompanies it…Hence a sinner is like to a man who wishes to throw himself from an eminence into a river; he first shuts his eyes and then casts himself headlong; so he who does an evil act hates the light, and labours under a voluntary ignorance which does not exculpate him, because it is voluntary.”
 
Talk to the priest personally before you report him. That would be more loving I think.

Blue Knight
 
fix said:
That is not the issue though.

Again, not the issue.

I agree with what you state but that is not what I was asking you about. Deliberate consent can happen in one instant. I wanted to know what you meant by the phrase one’s whole being?

culpabability for mortal sin will vary from person to person and circumstance to circumstance. What I am arguing against is the notion it is rare or hard to commit a mortal sin. I have yet to see evidence the Church has stated it is hard or easy.

In short, the three conditions necessary in some cases can be met very quickly.
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I used the phrase “ones whole being” to differentiate between consent and full consent. On reflection it might not have been the best choice of words.
Take an addict for instance, part of his brain is different than that of a non-addict. That part will always be hardwired into giving in to the temptation, it will always consent. An addict may consent to give in, but he do not have control over that part, so he himself cannot give full consent.

I agree with your last statements. I also don’t know if the Church has ever said it is hard or easy to commit a mortal sin. I also agree that the three conditions can be met very quickly.
I’m against what some posters seem to think the Church teaches, i.e. that merely performing the action is a mortal sin. It will always be a grave sin, but whether it’s mortal or not is not up to us.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday
 
BlueKnight said:
Talk to the priest personally before you report him. That would be more loving I think.

Blue Knight
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You’re right, Blue Knight. I have sent him an email with my concerns, but have not heard back. I wonder if I will :confused:

Mary
 
Thursday1 said:
I also don’t know if the Church has ever said it is hard or easy to commit a mortal sin. I also agree that the three conditions can be met very quickly.

Yours in Christ,
Thursday
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I can’t speak for anyone else and don’t pretend to, but I have never found it particularly difficult to commit a mortal sin. And I have just recently been reading St. Augustine’s Confessions, and he said he found it pretty easy, too.

I thank God for his great mercy.

Mary
 
First, a qualifier. I am well aware the church teaches that nobody but God determines who goes to heaven and who does not. But, the church does say what is and what is not mortal sin (ambiguously) along with stating that if a person were to die in mortal sin he/she goes immediately to hell.

1035 …* Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, …*

What is and what is not a mortal sin in the Catholic church is clearly ambiguous at best.

As I see it there is one of two basic catagories both of which is distressing and troublesome.
  1. One needs to be a pious devout knowledgeable Catholic who borders on sainthood to have any chance what-so-ever of being saved (from a legalistic standpoint - Gods abundant mercy aside)
  2. The Catholic concept of Mortal sin is not correct (which of course means Catholicism itself is a falsehood since the church’s teaching on these matters are infallible)
So either the church is correct and everyone I know is going to Hell (please see qualifier above), or the church is mistaken and I am in the wrong place.

Again, something is wrong with this picture. Frankly I am beginning to feel foolish believing God created a world in which most it’s inhabitants will burn in hell (really no sense mincing words here is there)?
 
Mijoy2 said:
So either the church is correct and everyone I know is going to Hell (please see qualifier above), or the church is mistaken and I am in the wrong place.

Again, something is wrong with this picture. Frankly I am beginning to feel foolish believing God created a world in which most it’s inhabitants will burn in hell (really no sense mincing words here is there)?
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  1. First of all, you discount the possibility of repentence, later in life, or even at the last moment. I expect that most people who eventually reconcile with the Church, and die in a state of grace, were at one point in mortal sin and in danger of damnation. Maybe, hopefully, many of these people will “get right” with God before the end.
  2. I think Jesus tells us that Heaven will be less crowded than we would like to think. St. Matthew, Ch 7
13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat. 14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!
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Even if everyone you knew were going to Hell, you should still strive for Heaven. Once you are in the Beatific Vision, all of God’s Justice and Mercy will be clear.

God Bless
 
Mijoy2 said:
Again, something is wrong with this picture. Frankly I am beginning to feel foolish believing God created a world in which most it’s inhabitants will burn in hell (really no sense mincing words here is there)?
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In all humility, I would say that God created the world, but he also gave us a free will. Starting with Adam & Eve, we humans have chosen our own path. God gave us the roadmap and we can follow it. Or we can follow any of the thousands of other roads on the map. The choice is ours. At any given moment in history, the percentages go up and down on the number of people following God’s path. If you were in late 19th century America, you might well conclude that most, if not all of your friends and relatives were going to Heaven. In today’s secular society, it seems the majority prefer the immediate satisfaction of humanism over the long term satisfaction of salvation.

As belief ebbs & flows through the centuries, your perception of the world around you will change. I think you correctly see that most of the people you love are on the wrong path. Lead by example and pray for their enlightenment. Gently try to steer them to the right path. In the end though, it is their decision to live in paradise, or reject it as did Adam & Eve.
 
Brooklyn said:
I guess I must be the exception, because I know and have known all my life what sin is, and I still keep doing it. Ignorance the eighth sacrament? That seems blasphemous, even if it wasn’t meant literally. Sacrament means “oath”, and it involves the grace of God. Ignorance saves more people than the death and resurrection of our Saviour, more than baptism, communion, confession? I really wish someone could have told this to our Lord so he wouldn’t have had to suffer the way he did.

I’m sorry if my post seems rude, but I think this type of thinking is extremely dangerous, and could result in the loss of salvation because we are, in effect, saying that the Grace of God is not needed for salvation. Look at the crucifixion. See what sin did to Jesus, and then tell me that ignorance is the key to salvation.

Mary
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I think what the poster meant about ignorance saving is that the Lord is merciful, a mercy that we should not insult and though ignorance may not always be an excuse it most certainly sometimes is with the Lord when the sinner sincerely has no idea they have sinned. In that sense ignorance spares us condemnation. When you think about it, in comparison we are all ignorant somewhere in our lives and should pray and strive for the enlightenment only the Holy Spirit can give.

This is not to say there isn’t a fine line between scuples and liberalism. Though we must remember we are no longer under the Law in our New Covenant with God, liberalism is contrary to Christs request that we try to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is. There is no “Once Saved - always Saved” doctrine within the church because we always retain our free will.

Let us not judge. We should pray for the subject of your opening post and all priests and ourselves. Its probably no accident you were led to that Mass.
 
bilop said:
  1. First of all, you discount the possibility of repentence, later in life, or even at the last moment. I expect that most people who eventually reconcile with the Church, and die in a state of grace, were at one point in mortal sin and in danger of damnation. Maybe, hopefully, many of these people will “get right” with God before the end.
  2. I think Jesus tells us that Heaven will be less crowded than we would like to think. St. Matthew, Ch 7
Even if everyone you knew were going to Hell, you should still strive for Heaven. Once you are in the Beatific Vision, all of God’s Justice and Mercy will be clear.

God Bless
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I appreciate the good intention of this post. Although it just further emphasizes my point.

By the “rules” of the CC, by definition, virtually everyone is going to hell (again without either a last second contrite confession or a pardon/mercy from God). Believing this way, if one adopts the belief, makes life on earth a living hell.

Being a Catholic, if one were to listen to most apologists or watch most EWTN broadcasts, one might think being Catholic were (at least in some respects), joyous. But the legalistic truths speak otherwise. It’s only when one ignores these (not often spoke about) “truths”, that one can find comfort in the CC. When one is honest with the doctrine, it all becomes a terribly distressing reality.

With all due respect either I am mistaken and need to be properly educated on this idea, or Catholicism unmasks a dreadful truth almost too painful to bear. It’s simply illogical.

Faith is not supposed to go against reason. Yet from the responses I get to these question, one must think it reasonable to believe all will burn throughout eternity.

I can’t find reason in this.
 
This thread has gone off topic. Please take discussion of side issues to the appropriate fora. Thank you.
 
Brooklyn said:
As the Bible says, Let he who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall, and always remember, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I can’t believe Christ died such an ignominious death on the cross when he could have just said hey, they’re all stupid and don’t know any better, so there is no sin! And I can’t believe any Catholic who can read is unaware of the Church’s teachings on birth control, attending Mass, etc.
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If Christ hadn’t died on the cross our venial sins wouldnt’ be forgiven either, and we couldn’t be sanctified through grace. Then we’d be in real trouble!
 
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