No Muslims Allowed

[TEPO]

(BTW, bamboozle is my new favorite word)…

 

[Holly3278]

What this woman is doing is wrong. She could easily face legal action because hers is a public accommodation and she is discriminating based on a religion.

If she really felt like she was in danger then she should have notified the police about any threats rather than take this illegal and morally wrong action.

 

[TEPO]

What this woman is doing is wrong. She could easily face legal action because hers is a public accommodation and she is discriminating based on a religion.

If she really felt like she was in danger then she should have notified the police about any threats rather than take this illegal and morally wrong action.

Well, i think there are a lot of people in America who don’t like Islam, for whatever reason… They’re open about it -just like people are open about refusing to bake cakes for gay couples getting married. Not all things are considered ‘equal’ to everyone. Thats modernism that tries teaching that.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Well, i think there are a lot of people in America who don’t like Islam, for whatever reason… They’re open about it -just like people are open about refusing to bake cakes for gay couples getting married. Not all things are considered ‘equal’ to everyone. Thats modernism that tries teaching that.

Ironic you object to modernism given it’s thoughts on secularism and your statement concerning how the Church should be following Italy (secular state, birthplace of fascism, oh look also involved with the rise of modernism, etc) regarding classifying Islam as an ideology.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Actually, what you are talking about is an organization whose primary duty is to a)safeguard it’s nations interests and b)fulfill what military actions its secular civilian government can lawfully demand of it; with just one aspect of this organization being that its members are trained to take human life.

They are trained to kill and they do plenty of it. True or false?

This is not a moral judgment as you keep insinuating. It’s objective fact.

As for what you should think, since you asked I’ll be more than happy to tell you. First, you should think that you might want to get some clue as to the military in general and the US military specifically prior to trying to use a video to prove your point. Second, you should ensure that said video actually proves your point or even address it.

I hate to break it to you, but a video of US soldiers exercising their Constitutional right to religious freedom in a place and manner as allowed for by law and military regulations doesn’t actually prove that the US military is somehow Christian, let alone some sort of neo-religious military order used by Christianity against non-Christians. What it does prove is that a soldier’s right to practice his faith/belief system is protected under US law and military regulations.

1. Most of you are trained killers.
2. Most of you are Christians.
3. Conclusion: therefore, most of you are Christian trained killers.

This is my contention. Which part do you disagree with?

Why do other military organizations get to be composed of Muslim trained killers, but the U.S. one doesn’t get to be composed of Christian ones?

As for saying any of this to my face- if you can’t say something to someone’s face, you shouldn’t be saying it at all. A person saying something behind someone’s back that they wouldn’t say to the other person’s face shows that the person speaking either lacks moral courage and integrity or knows what they are saying is unjust.

No, this is about cost/benefit analysis. It’s the same reason you wouldn’t have stormed an armed Iraqi compound all by yourself.

There is very little benefit to me in pointing out that your organization is composed of primarily Christian trained killers. The cost is that you might hurt me.

However, that cost is significantly reduced by my relative anonymity. Therefore, I say it.

By the by, you seem to be laboring under the impression that I have some specific problem with the U.S. military when, in fact, I don’t. I am simply expressing the truth that is evident to anyone without bias in this regard. People here seem to have no issue calling other military organizations what they are, but the U.S. one is “different” because it’s their own. I do not have any more of a problem with the U.S. military than I do with any other one. I might disagree with certain policies, but what soldier doesn’t?

 

[TEPO]

Ironic you object to modernism given it’s thoughts on secularism and your statement concerning how the Church should be following Italy (secular state, birthplace of fascism, oh look also involved with the rise of modernism, etc) regarding classifying Islam as an ideology.

Aah, thank you -so you have been reading my posts. but isnt it also a little ironic that Italy still classifies Christianity and specifically Catholicism as a legit religion?

…So what do you think of my idea on ‘editing’ the Koran and getting it up to speed with the Western world? Good or bad? The bible had to go through it, although with lesser changes -but all things are a little different.

 

[agnes_therese]

1. Most of you are trained killers.
2. Most of you are Christians.
3. Conclusion: therefore, most of you are Christian trained killers.

This is my contention. Which part do you disagree with?

The part (i.e., all of it) that shows you don’t know much about the military.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

The part (i.e., all of it) that shows you don’t know much about the military.

Actually, that part shows a usage of simplistic logic. The part that shows little knowledge of the military is the previous portion concerning “They are trained to kill and they do plenty of it. True or false?” The vast majority of soldiers never actually see the battlefield, let alone kill anyone (and here I’m assuming the poster doesn’t understand the difference between killing and murder and means murder given their previous statement about slaughtering).

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Aah, thank you -so you have been reading my posts. but isnt it also a little ironic that Italy still classifies Christianity and specifically Catholicism as a legit religion?

…So what do you think of my idea on ‘editing’ the Koran and getting it up to speed with the Western world? Good or bad? The bible had to go through it, although with lesser changes -but all things are a little different.

Your idea smacks of modernism. Perhaps you should review what the term actually means.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The part (i.e., all of it) that shows you don’t know much about the military.

I swear, discussing anything with a religious person can be like pulling teeth. SMH…

“You don’t know much about the military” isn’t a response.

oldcatholicguy:

Actually, that part shows a usage of simplistic logic. The part that shows little knowledge of the military is the previous portion concerning “They are trained to kill and they do plenty of it. True or false?” The vast majority of soldiers never actually see the battlefield, let alone kill anyone (and here I’m assuming the poster doesn’t understand the difference between killing and murder and means murder given their previous statement about slaughtering).

I know about the existence of the word “murder.” I have refrained from using it intentionally. Slaughter was the type of colorful language that you folks here use re: the infidels. I mean, the Muslims.

As to the “most soldiers don’t kill anyone” line: sure thing. Of course. Your reading comprehension has failed again. I didn’t say they were primarily killers, I said they were primarily trained killers. One can be a trained killer without ever actually killing anyone.

Heck, given the size of the U.S. military, if they were all running around killing people at all times, we’d be running out of people right quick.

What’s interesting is that you both continue to disagree with me without bothering to point out one thing that I actually said that you disagree with.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I swear, discussing anything with a religious person can be like pulling teeth. SMH…

“You don’t know much about the military” isn’t a response.

It is when the individual you are talking with clearly has no clue as to the military. First indication you know nothing about the military- you trying to link a video of soldiers at a church service as a counter to- “Sorry but all those other religious groups are not going around and killing people in the name of their God.”

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I swear, discussing anything with a religious person can be like pulling teeth. SMH…

“You don’t know much about the military” isn’t a response.

I know about the existence of the word “murder.” I have refrained from using it intentionally. Slaughter was the type of colorful language that you folks here use re: the infidels. I mean, the Muslims.

As to the “most soldiers don’t kill anyone” line: sure thing. Of course. Your reading comprehension has failed again. I didn’t say they were primarily killers, I said they were primarily trained killers. One can be a trained killer without ever actually killing anyone.

Heck, given the size of the U.S. military, if they were all running around killing people at all times, we’d be running out of people right quick.

What’s interesting is that you both continue to disagree with me without bothering to point out one thing that I actually said that you disagree with.

Tell you what, I’ll humor you. Go ahead and restate your argument without all the side comments, etc and I’ll be more than happy to tear it apart.

 

[TEPO]

Your idea smacks of modernism. Perhaps you should review what the term actually means.

…

Now thats the OCG ive been missing. your style is slightly sour yet extremely amusing.

But its not actually modernism unless i think all religions should be equally modernized, and i dont believe in the highly radicalized “modern” idea of equality. Its just too extreme.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

…

Now thats the OCG ive been missing. your style is slightly sour yet extremely amusing.

But its not actually modernism unless i think all religions should be equally modernized, and i dont believe in the highly radicalized “modern” idea of equality. Its just too extreme.

"…So what do you think of my idea on ‘editing’ the Koran and getting it up to speed with the Western world? Good or bad? The bible had to go through it, although with lesser changes -but all things are a little different. "

That would be modernism. That the Bible needed to/needs to be “edited” to “fit with the times” or as you word it “the Western world.” Another aspect of modernism is the idea that the “Western world” is somehow on an equal footing with the Church when it comes to the Faith and God (your comment concerning Italy, the Church, and Islam being an ideology and not a religion).

 

[TEPO]

"…So what do you think of my idea on ‘editing’ the Koran and getting it up to speed with the Western world? Good or bad? The bible had to go through it, although with lesser changes -but all things are a little different. "

That would be modernism. That the Bible needed to/needs to be “edited” to “fit with the times” or as you word it “the Western world.” Another aspect of modernism is the idea that the “Western world” is somehow on an equal footing with the Church when it comes to the Faith and God (your comment concerning Italy, the Church, and Islam being an ideology and not a religion).

No, no I was just comparing the fact that certain nations felt the need to create a King James version as opposed to a regular St. josephs in order to put slightly differing translations into their more ‘personal’ bible.

I’m comparing that to the idea of creating a Western Koran, in order to personalize it to our culture… But there can be no significant changes to the bible at all. Its perfect.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

No, no I was just comparing the fact that certain nations felt the need to create a King James version as opposed to a regular St. josephs in order to put slightly differing translations into their more ‘personal’ bible.

I’m comparing that to the idea of creating a Western Koran, in order to personalize it to our culture… But there can be no significant changes to the bible at all. Its perfect.

Ok, thank you for your correction. I’m glad I misread what you meant. As for the idea of creating a “Western Koran” I think it would be as offensive and counter productive as someone creating a “Western Bible” (see the UN wanting the Church to change it’s teachings).

Also, the King James version wasn’t created to put a more “personal” touch on the Bible. The King James was created to reinforce the right to rule of the English monarchy.

 

[robwar]

Normally, I would have considered this discrimination. But this is a shooting range not food service, health care or living space. Not just anybody should be allowed to come in and shoot. Criminals or those with a criminal record, mental illness, the young, the blind etc. Now considering what is going on in the middle east and that many westerners are joining in the fight for Islam, considering that there are threats here, a recent beheading and attack I really don’t blame the owner in that she didn’t want her shooting range to become the next training ground for terrorists. This just isn’t a simple discrimination case as some of the posters have made it out to be. Sorry but maybe if some of the flight schools noticed that there were middle eastern men coming to class just to learn how to fly, not land not take off, maybe what happen on 9/11 could have been stopped. Maybe if they got together and put their foot down and discriminated, 9/11 might not happen. Turn it around, what if shooting ranges just let middle eastern Muslims come in to practice how to shoot and then turn around and decide to really put to use what they practiced “legally”, those crying discrimination would be crying why didn’t they stop them. So this owner is doing something about it. She isn’t waiting for the police or the FBI (which can’t seem to get it’s act together over terrorists) to do something. That’s the crux, when normal law abiding citizens stand together and say to monsters, no way not here get lost, will anything get done. Just remember, the first fight against terrorists was on a hijacked airplane with normal trapped US citizens that tried to retake the plane. The monster in OK was stopped by the business owner with a gun, not the police, FBI or military.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Normally, I would have considered this discrimination. But this is a shooting range not food service, health care or living space.** Not just anybody should be allowed to come in and shoot. Criminals or those with a criminal record, mental illness, the young, the blind etc.** Now considering what is going on in the middle east and that many westerners are joining in the fight for Islam, considering that there are threats here, a recent beheading and attack I really don’t blame the owner in that she didn’t want her shooting range to become the next training ground for terrorists. This just isn’t a simple discrimination case as some of the posters have made it out to be. Sorry but maybe if some of the flight schools noticed that there were middle eastern men coming to class just to learn how to fly, not land not take off, maybe what happen on 9/11 could have been stopped. Maybe if they got together and put their foot down and discriminated, 9/11 might not happen. Turn it around, what if shooting ranges just let middle eastern Muslims come in to practice how to shoot and then turn around and decide to really put to use what they practiced “legally”, those crying discrimination would be crying why didn’t they stop them. So this owner is doing something about it. She isn’t waiting for the police or the FBI (which can’t seem to get it’s act together over terrorists) to do something. That’s the crux, when normal law abiding citizens stand together and say to monsters, no way not here get lost, will anything get done. Just remember, the first fight against terrorists was on a hijacked airplane with normal trapped US citizens that tried to retake the plane. The monster in OK was stopped by the business owner with a gun, not the police, FBI or military.

Unless your are arguing that being a Muslim makes you a criminal, mentally ill, a minor none of the rest of your comment actually matters.

 

[robwar]

Unless your are arguing that being a Muslim makes you a criminal, mentally ill, a minor none of the rest of your comment actually matters.

I am not claiming that but considering her business and experience she already has had with Muslims coming in and acting suspicious, I understand why she took the stance she did. Until the peaceful normal Muslims stand up and take their religion back, then I still understand the owners decision.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I am not claiming that but considering her business and experience she already has had with Muslims coming in and acting suspicious, I understand why she took the stance she did. Until the peaceful normal Muslims stand up and take their religion back, then I still understand the owners decision.

Sure. I guess you’d have a similar “understanding” if say business owners started putting up “No Priests allowed” or “No Catholics allowed” due to some priests abusing children.