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ringil
Guest
As xenophobia and ignorance are hardly rare; I would imagine it was multiple customers.
THat’s just a guess though.
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THat’s just a guess though.
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ringil
Guest
That’s not discrimination. That a step taken to prevent a crime based on a description of a suspect.So, someone phones in a bomb-threat, a busline in Florida apparently got a threat via two cyclists this morning, persons on bicycles. But hey, we can’t fear anything, that’s discrimination so let everyone onto the bus.
wesh.com/news/bus-service-suspended-in-lake-county-over-bomb-threat/28369828
No, bus service suspended because of the threat. We better call them and tell them, fear of something to their bus constitutes discrimination from the pre-Civil Rights era in the South.
Fear ALWAYS fosters discrimination!
I imagine the ban of cyclists was pretty brief as well.
And AFAIK there is no history of systematic oppression against cyclists in the Pre-Civil Rights South.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Yes, it’s a guess. I’m glad you acknowledge that.
What’s the big deal? In Moore Oklahoma right next door to Arkansas, a Muslim beheaded a woman he argued with about Islam’s alleged correct teaching on stoning women. Nothing to fear here. Close to the same time, another Muslim threatened another woman with beheading in Oklahoma and now, the police in Moore Oklahoma are seeking to talk to a man apparently with an accent who was asking how many police are at a school in Moore, Oklahoma. Nothing to fear here.
Now, Morgan’s own words are a pretty good defense, let’s repeat them.
The Koran commands its followers 109 times to murder, terrorize or hate those that do not convert or submit to Islam.
Nothing to fear about that folks!
Fear motivates discrimination! 
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Path_Finder
Guest
That’s not discrimination. That a step taken to prevent a crime based on a description of a suspect.
I imagine the ban of cyclists was pretty brief as well.
And AFAIK there is no history of systematic oppression against cyclists in the Pre-Civil Rights South.
And I doubt cyclists or African-Americans had some sort of book they followed to do these things? You figure!
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Even when the threats are anonymous, it would still be illegal to respond to random people as if they were the ones issuing the threats. Let me illustrate that point with another scenario. Famous people often get death threats. Outspoken politicians are especially targeted. (I imagine that John Boehner and Nancy Pelosi frequently get anonymous death threats.) These people may have a legitimate fear for their lives, and they might take certain precautions to protect themselves. But if Boehner or Pelosi were to take out a gun and shoot some random person, just because they were afraid, they would rightly be prosecuted.
In the case of the lady with the shooting range, there are a number of options open to her to respond to her fear. If she really feels afraid running a gun range with Muslims around, she could get into a different line of work, like selling flowers. The act of publicizing a restriction on Muslims is a particularly ineffective one. If she fears for her life because of her debates with Muslims, denying them the use of her gun range is not going to offer her any significant protection. This is like the gun control debate. Criminals will always find ways to get guns, while the law-abiding citizens suffer. In this case the random Muslims who just want to shoot for recreation are the law-abiding citizens who are penalized because of the ones who made threats. But those who made the threats are the criminals, and they are not going to be stopped just because she closes her business to Muslims. In fact that action is more likely to anger borderline Muslims and inspire them to get their own gun to do the job.
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Path_Finder
Guest
It would be interesting to see it go to trial because that is the only way we would find out.
For all we know, the Court may judge that she has a right to self-defense, to be concerned, in short, there may be factors in her favor even if one wants to say straight-out this looks like discrimination.
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Path_Finder
Guest
Self Defense does NOT always have to be Reasonable, what is important is that the person honestly believes he/she may be danger. Not that it passes a rationality test.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
That sort of has a little bit of truth to it, but not much. Read this legal article about self-defense and see what they say about reasonable self-defense. While you are at it, also note what they say about the threat being imminent.
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TaurusRex
Guest
Basically Pope Francis has advised peaceful dialogue with Muslims, but he has also advocated doing as is necessary to defend and to protect innocent people from the violent aggressive behavior of Islamic radicals;
So believe it or not imvho the gun range owner has used dialogue to tell Muslims that they aren’t welcome at her place of business due to her concern for the safety of innocent non-Muslims inasmuch as her guns might fall into the hands of radical Muslims.
rex
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Yet there are those,who in the name of political correctness would think otherwise,
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Well your above works if we conclude that just being Muslim means one is of course an extremist likely to engage in violent behavior. Of course such an ignorant conclusion sits right up there with concluding that she and other business owners in Arkansas can put up “No Blacks” (review Arkansas crime stats concerning violent crime), “No Men” (review the same concerning sexual assaults), “No Hispanics” (see stats on illegal immigrants in Arkansas), and of course “No Priests” (it’s perfectly reasonable for someone to conclude that since an extremely small minority of a group engages in bad behavior one has to protect oneself from all that group right? percentage wise there are more child abusing clergy than there are murdering Islamic extremists).
Your above also would only work if one concluded that the Holy Father was promoting the idea that Catholics can ignore Catholic teachings.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Ah, the good old “in the name of political correctness” charge. Ok, I’ll play. How is opposing this sign and labeling it unjust discrimination a “politically correct” thing and not a “because it violates the teachings of the Church” thing?Yet there are those,who in the name of political correctness would think otherwise,
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Ok, let’s test your above. Given- a woman who has had death threats made against her by a racist self identifying Christian group (like the Church of Jesus Christ-Christian) and honestly believes she may be in danger, can she-
-shoot and kill any white guy she sees
-physically assault any white guy she sees
-call the police and report any white guy she sees as assaulting her
-get a restraining order against her white co-workers, neighbors, etc
-put up a “No Whities” sign
-call any white guy she interacts with, sees, etc a racist without fear of being sued for slander/liable
If she honestly believes she may be in danger, you agree she should be able to do all those right?
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TaurusRex
Guest
It’s not against Church teachings to shun the devil and imho the Pope has given his permission to do so …
Read the word dialogue as befits the circumstance …
does one speak pleasantly to potential terrorist executioners?
rex
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Jeanne_S
Guest
Re ignoring Catholic teachings,there is plenty of that going on,considering the Catholics who continue to vote into office politicians that clearly are diametrically opposed to Church teachings!
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Yes there is, but I fail to see what that has to do with this topic. Mind informing me why this matters to the discussion at hand?
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
Just to be clear, are you claiming that being a Muslim makes one a potential terrorist?
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Path_Finder
Guest
Again, I think her words speak better to this. Respectfully, I’m really not getting what you are getting at. The story speaks for itself, she has been threatened, murderous acts by radicals are not only common place on TV but have occurred in her general vicinity.
Yes, if she were in a lot of Islamic countries, she could not even own a gunshop.
Egypt and Jordan are examples that there are many good Muslims. It seems the gist of your conversation is trying to make this out to be an issue of bigotry.
Still, the bad spoil it for the good. Perhaps if these Muslims want to use her gun range so much, they could consider converting to Christianity or another religion.
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oldcatholicguy
Guest
That doesn’t answer my questions. Are all those actions I listed perfectly ok for a woman threatened by a Christian racist group with a history violence ok for her to do if she honestly believes she is in danger?
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Path_Finder
Guest
Businesses have signs such as “No more than 3 students in the store at a time”, this sign is discriminating but apparently it is permitted so people still have some rights to their own businesses. Students apparently are seen as a risk to the store, maybe shoplifting.
Morgan writes:
It looks like she is in her rights vs. those who are trying to make this a simple issue such as putting a sign “Whites Only” in her window.
Again, her words suffice.
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