No need for crucifix's

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Asa

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The following is a very clear and perfect command from the Lord Jesus on how His followers should remember His perfect sacrifice;

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22:19-20

Also in Matt, Mark, Luke & John there are God inspired accounts of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross. So why did men decide to make a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross? Is the making of a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross in effect saying that the Scriptural accounts of the Lord’s death aren’t good enough and that His followers need a man made image as well. I mean how can any mere man do better than what God has done and how can the terrible suffering of the blessed Lord Jesus be recreated by a mere human artist.

So there’s no command in the Sacred Scriptures to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross and there’s no need to make this image because the God inspired Sacred Scriptures perfectly describe to us what terrible suffering the Lord Jesus went through to save sinners.
 
Neither do we have any command to celebrate Easter, nor to worship on Sundays. Perhaps we should take them off as well? But having a crucifix reminds us of the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. The Bible never said that the Eucharist is the only way to remember Him by. Paul certainly didn’t say that’s the only recommended way to do so.
 
Asa said:
The following is a very clear and perfect command from the Lord Jesus on how His followers should remember His perfect sacrifice;

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22:19-20

Also in Matt, Mark, Luke & John there are God inspired accounts of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross. So why did men decide to make a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross? Is the making of a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross in effect saying that the Scriptural accounts of the Lord’s death aren’t good enough and that His followers need a man made image as well. I mean how can any mere man do better than what God has done and how can the terrible suffering of the blessed Lord Jesus be recreated by a mere human artist.

So there’s no command in the Sacred Scriptures to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross and there’s no need to make this image because the God inspired Sacred Scriptures perfectly describe to us what terrible suffering the Lord Jesus went through to save sinners.
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And every time my eyes happen to catch sight of a crucifix, the terrible sufferings come to my mind as well as how terrible sin is to God and how much He loves us.
 
Milliardo said:
Neither do we have any command to celebrate Easter, nor to worship on Sundays. Perhaps we should take them off as well? But having a crucifix reminds us of the sufferings of Christ on the Cross. The Bible never said that the Eucharist is the only way to remember Him by. Paul certainly didn’t say that’s the only recommended way to do so.
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So we just take your words as truth, you have no Scriptural evidence for what you have just stated. Just mere human reasoning!

Look at the God inspired Sacred Scriptures to see the factual description of the Lord Jesus’ perfect sacrifice. Don’t look at man made images; are they true images, are they better than the perfect Word of God?

Is the following a command or a suggestion?

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22:19-20
 
Yes, and in many, many approved private revelations, He makes mention that He is much pleased when people meditate on His Passion and give gratitude.

It is aslo a teaching tool. In a Memory for Wonders, the author, who was taken to Morrocco specifically so that she would not ever hear about Jesus, saw a crucifix in a catalog and knew instinctively that the person depicted there suffered for all mankind, and was related to the mysterious creator of the universe. This person somehow unites us all to the Creator.

At that time, she knew in her heart there was a God, although her parents were Communist atheists. She just didn’t know what He was called. She was able to deduce the entire theology of Salvation based on that icon. She then worshipped the Man on the Cross, although she did not know His name. She thought it was Inri, because that is what was inscripted. :o
 
Asa said:
So in Matt, Mark, Luke & John there are God inspired accounts of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross. So why did men decide to make a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross? Is the making of a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross in effect saying that the Scriptural accounts of the Lord’s death aren’t good enough and that His followers need a man made image as well. I mean how can any mere man do better than what God has done and how can the terrible suffering of the blessed Lord Jesus be recreated by a mere human artist.
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I can think of a couple of reasons right off the top of my head:
  1. For the majority of times and places, even to our own day, there are people that can’t read or afford Bibles. Thus a visual reminder serves that purpose.
  2. Even of you can read, you can’t be reading all the time – but you **can **have a reminder of Christ’s sacrifice before you all the time, either on the walls of your home, around your neck, or at the end of your Rosary.
So there’s no command in the Sacred Scriptures to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross
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Neither is there one not to.🙂
catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
So we just take your words as truth, you have no Scriptural evidence for what you have just stated. Just mere human reasoning!
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As is your argument. Your “scriptural evidence” is one from silence. Why should anyone listen to you?🙂
Look at the God inspired Sacred Scriptures to see the factual description of the Lord Jesus’ perfect sacrifice. Don’t look at man made images; are they true images, are they better than the perfect Word of God?
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No they are not. And they are not a replacement for God’s Word. But they can be helpful to a great many people. If they are not to you, don’t use them. :tiphat:
 
Asa said:
So there’s no command in the Sacred Scriptures to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross and there’s no need to make this image because the God inspired Sacred Scriptures perfectly describe to us what terrible suffering the Lord Jesus went through to save sinners.
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Really? I think you’re dead wrong about this.
Q: I had a friend ask me why Catholics have Crucifixes in our churches…don’t we believe Jesus has risen? Why do we keep Him on the cross?
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A: First of all, you would want to check out 1st Corinthians, chapter 1, verse 23. Paul says, “…but we preach Christ crucified…” Why does Paul preach Christ crucified? Doesn’t he know Jesus has been raised from the dead? Of course he does! But, he knows that it is through the power of the crucified Christ on the cross that the bonds of sin and death are broken. As Paul says in verse 24, Christ crucified is the “power of God”.
1 Cor 2:2, “For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.” Again, didn’t Paul know that Jesus had risen from the dead? Of course, he did.
Paul preaches Christ crucified because an empty cross has no power. The cross that bears the beaten, battered, and bloodied body of Jesus Christ, however, that cross is the “power of God”. This is why, we “keep Jesus on the cross,” because we, too, preach Christ crucified. The Crucifix reminds us not only of God’s power, but also His love for us - giving His only begotten Son up for suffering and death.
Also, here in this life we do not share so much in the glory of the Resurrection, as we do in the suffering of Jesus on the cross; after all, we must take up our cross daily if we are to follow Jesus, as it says in Lk 9:23.
And, we must die with Christ in order to live with Him as Romans 6:8 tells us. Where did Christ die? On the cross. The Crucifix serves to remind us of these things.
One other passage to keep in mind is Galatians 3:1, “O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?” Did you catch that? Jesus was publicly portrayed, before their “eyes”, as being crucified. Sounds kind of like they may have been looking at a Crucifix, doesn’t it?
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LINK
 
Ceil-1 said:
Yes, and in many, many approved private revelations, He makes mention that He is much pleased when people meditate on His Passion and give gratitude.

It is aslo a teaching tool. In a Memory for Wonders, the author, who was taken to Morrocco specifically so that she would not ever hear about Jesus, saw a crucifix in a catalog and knew instinctively that the person depicted there suffered for all mankind, and was related to the mysterious creator of the universe. This person somehow unites us all to the Creator.

At that time, she knew in her heart there was a God, although her parents were Communist atheists. She just didn’t know what He was called. She was able to deduce the entire theology of Salvation based on that icon. She then worshipped the Man on the Cross, although she did not know His name. She thought it was Inri, because that is what was inscripted. :o
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Nice STORY, were’s the factual Bible based evidence for the making of man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross. Human reasoning won’t do nor will subjective testimonies. Gods Word perfectly describes the Lord Jesus’ suffering on the cross. Mediate on the perfect Word of God and you will see a true picture of the Lord Jesus’ perfect sacrifice.

Im still waiting for Bible based evidence.
 
Fidelis said:
I can think of a couple of reasons right off the top of my head:
  1. For the majority of times and places, even to our own day, there are people that can’t read or afford Bibles. Thus a visual reminder serves that purpose.
  2. Even of you can read, you can’t be reading all the time – but you **can **have a reminder of Christ’s sacrifice before you all the time, either on the walls of your home, around your neck, or at the end of your Rosary.Neither is there one not to.🙂
    catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp
    As is your argument. Your “scriptural evidence” is one from silence. Why should anyone listen to you?🙂 No they are not. And they are not a replacement for God’s Word. But they can be helpful to a great many people. If they are not to you, don’t use them. :tiphat:
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So the Holy Spirit can’t remind Christians of the perfect Word of God?

Not a replacement, really, a feeble man made attempt to do what God has already done perfectly. Just read His perfect Word and forget about man made images.
 
Asa said:
Nice STORY, were’s the factual Bible based evidence for the making of man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross. Human reasoning won’t do nor will subjective testimonies. Gods Word perfectly describes the Lord Jesus’ suffering on the cross. Mediate on the perfect Word of God and you will see a true picture of the Lord Jesus’ perfect sacrifice.

Im still waiting for Bible based evidence.
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  1. Which version of the Bible did early Christians use for the first 400 years of Christianity?
  2. Why are some books, like 2 Peter and Revelation included in the Bible, but not others, like the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabus, and the Letters of Clement?
  3. How did people learn about scripture for the first 1500 years of Christianity (keeping in mind that the literacy rate between 500-1500 AD was about 1%)?
 
When does the “perfect Word of God” tell us, “Do only what is written here, and not a whit more”? :hmmm:

tee
 
Rolltide said:
  1. Which version of the Bible did early Christians use for the first 400 years of Christianity?
  2. Why are some books, like 2 Peter and Revelation included in the Bible, but not others, like the Didache, the Epistle of Barnabus, and the Letters of Clement?
  3. How did people learn about scripture for the first 1500 years of Christianity (keeping in mind that the literacy rate between 500-1500 AD was about 1%)?
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Where’s the Bible based evidence that the 1st Century Church made man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross?
 
Asa said:
Whats all that got to do with Bible based evidence for making man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross.

Thats the worse interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures ever! Shame on you!
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And yours is not an interpretation of scripture? Please…

There certainly is a great deal of scripture based teaching in that post. What makes your interpretations more valid or correct than mine of the guy who wrote that?
 
Asa said:
Where’s the Bible based evidence that the 1st Century Church made man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross?
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For that matter, where’s the Bible based evidence that the first century church used the Bible as a unified book?
 
Asa said:
So the Holy Spirit can’t remind Christians of the perfect Word of God?

Not a replacement, really, a feeble man made attempt to do what God has already done perfectly. Just read His perfect Word and forget about man made images.
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It’s obvious you have your mind made up because you didn’t address a single point I brought up. My whole point was that some people aren’t able to read, and even if they can, find it profitable to have a visual image so they can think about Christ’s sacrifice where ever they go.

If you don’t like images, don’t use them. But don’t get huffy when others don’t accept your unscriptural and illogical personal conclusions. You are, of course, welcome to hold them yourself.
 
Asa said:
Whats all that got to do with Bible based evidence for making man made images of the Lord Jesus on the cross.

Thats the worse interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures ever! Shame on you!
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Hopefully you are here to learn and inquire as to Catholic belief and practice. I say “hopefully” because you seem to be here to attack the Church based on some problem that you have with the use of the Crucifix. The Catholic veneration of the Crucifix has been explained to you at some length, yet you continue to scoff. I could be charitable and put your attacks down to ignorance, but it serves nothing to simply show up on a Catholic forum and attack a dearly held Catholic practice. Do you hope to change our minds? Or just give yourself a cheap “feel-good”? You style yourself as a “follower of Jesus Christ”, what do you think that we Catholics are?
 
Rolltide said:
  1. How did people learn about scripture for the first 1500 years of Christianity (keeping in mind that the literacy rate between 500-1500 AD was about 1%)?
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I’ll give you a hint… if you were illiterate, and I needed to orally teach you the Holy Scriptures, do you think it’d be helpful to have a church full of statues, stained glass images, and icons, to pictorally refer to during the explanations? Might it, in fact, be almost required for any kind of realistic understanding?
 
I think its sad that some people can only find God in the Bible. Of course it is wonderful, but we should be able to think of God even if we are not reading the Bible. I know I can be reminded of God when taking walks, when in prayer anywhere, and when seeing a crucifix. Its a reminder of what God told us in Scripture. Its silly to talk like all anyone should ever do is be reading the Bible. There is more to worshiping God than just reading the Bible. To limit ones self so much is denying yourself to gifts and blessings God gives us through prayer and reflection of his sacrifice when a Bible is not around. God never commanded us to never do anything but sit around reading the Bible. We are supposed to actually worship him as well and not merely read about how to do it, and be as Christ like as possible our daily lives through helping others and following His commandments. If you feel no need to do anything but sit around reading the Bible all day long, where is your faith? Give me Scriptural proof that that is all we are supposed to do as Christians.

If you feel no need to have visual reminders of the sacrifice God gave us, thats your preference. Most people have more important things to do than sit around all day over their Bibles. They are living their lives for Christ and being a beacon to others. It is nice, when we are worshiping together as God commands us to, to have that reminder so that we do not lose sight of the greatness of Our Lord and what He has done for us. The churches I have been in with crucifixes seem to never lose sight of what they are there to do, to worship God and give glory to Him, whereas those I’ve been to without them spend much more time socializing and praising each other for their ministry and do not spend their time there in worship of God. It seems, without their Bibles in front of them, they are unable to remember God’s gift to them and begin focusing more on themselves than on God.

This is why the world is in the state it is in. Too many Christians want to believe all they have to do is read their Bible all day long instead of actually seeking closeness with God and living for Him. Believing is not enough, we must live it as well. Otherwise, our faith is not true faith.

Give me proof that having these reminders of our faith is wrong. That reveling in God’s grace and mercy is sinful. Give me proof that all I have to do is read my Bible all day and nothing else and I’m set for life.
 
Asa said:
The following is a very clear and perfect command from the Lord Jesus on how His followers should remember His perfect sacrifice;

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. Luke 22:19-20

Also in Matt, Mark, Luke & John there are God inspired accounts of the Lord Jesus’ death on the cross. So why did men decide to make a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross? Is the making of a man made image of the Lord Jesus on the cross in effect saying that the Scriptural accounts of the Lord’s death aren’t good enough and that His followers need a man made image as well. I mean how can any mere man do better than what God has done and how can the terrible suffering of the blessed Lord Jesus be recreated by a mere human artist.

So there’s no command in the Sacred Scriptures to make an image of the Lord Jesus on the cross and there’s no need to make this image because the God inspired Sacred Scriptures perfectly describe to us what terrible suffering the Lord Jesus went through to save sinners.
Click to expand...
I carry pictures of my children in my wallet because I love them.
I wear a 3 inch crucifix on a safety pin inside my shirt always.
It reminds me who I am and also whose I am.
The Peace of Christ
Bill
 
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