"No one goes to hell unless they choose to"

[JRKH]

So are you saying that every little thing we do, goes toward good or evil, and that
we don’t actually do “neutral” things?

I think that if we examine how we do most things, we will find that there is very little that is “Morally neutral”. We either act for the Glory of God or we do not. We either act in ways that help our Holiness or not. See the little prayer in my signature about performing actions. This is how we should live, with ALL our actions for the Love of God.

Are you saying that in the last moment of your life, you can either choose to love
or to hate, and that will be your choice of heaven or hell?

I would say no to this. For we do not “choose”, which implies thought and selection, at the moment of death. When we choose is during life when we choose to act for the Love of God and neighbor or to act contrary to the Love of God and neighbor.

So then our life here would be a series of exercises, designed to train us to choose
love in “the hour of our death”, our final exam.

Is this what you are saying?

Yes. This is a fair assessment in my opinion. I would invite you to re-examine the quotes from St Catherine and then take a look at how Christ teaches us to live. We are ot Live immersed in God. Always seeking His way and not ours. This takes courage, dedication, strength, will, and much much training.

I’m not saying I disagree if it is, you’ve just said a lot to think about, and I’m trying
to make sense of it all…

No Problem. I realize that the Writings of someone like St Catherine can fly in the face of how we commonly think of Judgement.

IN an earlier post exchange between myself and “distracted”, I recommended a book. I make that same recommendation to you if you’d like to read more.

Peace
James

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

(they have been given every fair second chance, blah, blah, blah)

Yes there are some who proudly proclaim that they are on a “highway to hell”,
but mostly people do not choose hell. They just think they can will their own
eternity to be however they want it.

1. I’m a good person, God can’t keep me out of heaven.
2. I’ll just disappear when I die.
3. Hell won’t be suffering, all my friends will be there!

Lots of people grasp for pleasure, throwing caution to the wind, and not thinking of
their future.

Lets say some kids died by swimming at a quarry or surfing and got caught in a
rip-tide. You are saying they chose to drown when actually what they chose was
to swim in dangerous water. They chose to get away with it, but they didn’t
receive the choice that they chose.

Could you please explain the las t two sentences ? TY.​

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

My dear friend
Most people not only choose hell whether consciously or not but they create their own hell. People are so busy and wrapped up in the things of this world. They don’t stop to think about eternity. I see people talking, behaving and living like life will never end. We must do this or that or we’ll die. They don’t seem to appreciate they will die anyway. Many people have a false sense of immotality, even if they say they know death is a reality. We should be garteful if we know about hell, and live every day like its our last. And we must not presume that because God is Love and merciful we are saved. Nio grace, no heaven. Heaven is Love and to go there you must be able to love The Love I’m talking about is the life giving living Love which is grace.

God bless all:thumbsup:

John

 

[cheeto1]

Could you please explain the las t two sentences ? TY.​

Gosh, I don’t know. They just mean that people choose to do things that are
wrong or dangerous because they want to, and don’t see anything wrong with it,
and they are not choosing to do these things in order to get consequences. They
don’t think consequences apply to them. Like a drunk driver. They do it because
they want to, not because they are trying to get consequences. They don’t think
there should be any…

 

[distracted]

Yes - Decidedly so. **HERE **is a Link to Amazon where you can peek inside. Be sure to read the reviews as well.

This book introduced me to St Catherine’s writings as well as other great Doctors of the Church in the “Mystical” tradition, - John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Catherine, Francis de Sales, and others are used to truly demonstrate how we can grow in holiness.

I highly recommend this book to anyone looking to grow in holiness.

Peace
James

thanks…

I’ve been meaning to read more on saints… I’ve always had a fondness for St Francis de Sales… i like the way he stole all those people away from the Calvinists religion and back into the Church… :extrahappy::extrahappy::clapping::

 

[JRKH]

thanks…

I’ve been meaning to read more on saints… I’ve always had a fondness for St Francis de Sales… i like the way he stole all those people away from the Calvinists religion and back into the Church… :extrahappy::extrahappy::clapping::

This is a great way to accomplish two things then.

1. Help to focus ones journey toward God.
2. Get a great introduction to these Saints of the “Mystical” tradition in the Church.

Also it has helped me tremendously in conversing here at CAF.

Peace
James

 

[mary1173]

I believe that unless you can concentrate upon God’s plans for you. Prayer, fasting, alms giving, helping others intheir time of need, that these will merit you heaven before you die. It is in being perfect like our heavenly Father that we reach a state of perfection…I was told so by Br. JR. look at the post for spirituality and his postings upon such matters as I have described. He can give you a better explanation than I could EVER give you. Follow by HIS example.

Peace be with you.
Your sister in Christ​

mary1173

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Gosh, I don’t know. They just mean that people choose to do things that are wrong or dangerous because they want to, and don’t see anything wrong with it, and they are not choosing to do these things in order to get consequences. They don’t think consequences apply to them. Like a drunk driver. They do it because they want to, not because they are trying to get consequences. They don’t think there should be any…

Thanks. There are always consequences. One consequence of my sitting on this chair typing, is that I can’t go and get a coffee. So if I want some, I have to stop typing.​

So with anything else. Drink 20 lagers in an evening - and you feel ghastly next morning. Build a city on the San Andreas Fault - and trouble comes. Drive a car at speed through a shop-window - and the police are onto you. Only a very young child lives in the kind of world in which fire does not scald if touched. Life ks possible only because things have consequences - if water solidified or evaporated as often as it flowed every time it’s poured, it would very hard to drink. But if thinks have consequences pleasing to us when we want the pleasure of them, it’s a bit much to complain that the metal durable enough to make a car from doesn’t turn to a trampoline if crashed. If water can slake thirst or be used in Baptism - then in the right circumstances & sufficient quantity, it can drown us. Because it acts according to its nature, regardless of us.

And if that is true of the natural world - why should there not also be consequences in the supernatural world ? It’s not as though hell were inevitable - it can be avoided by an act of contrition; even attrition is enough. Why should perseverance in sin, that is not repented of even at death, be rewarded with Heaven; IOW, with the enjoyment of God in His Eternity ? That seems most unfair. People would never stop complaining if a rapist were said to be morally equivalent to Mother Teresa - but they want the wicked & the Saints to inherit the same eternal blessedness, as though the two were morally identical. That kind of idea would not survive an experience such a burglary - burglars burgle, but Saints don’t.

The kind of attitude described is unrealistic. Why should reality tailor itself to suit our desires ? But that is what in effect is being asked for.

 

[cheeto1]

That kind of idea would not survive an experience such a burglary - burglars burgle, but Saints don’t.
.

What I am saying is that the burglar didn’t choose hell. He chose to burgle, and
figured God shouldn’t mind much because he is “a good person”. A person will
often say “God wouldn’t send me to hell for that”. Haven’t you ever heard people
talk this way? They are not choosing hell. If they got it, it would be an unexpected
punishment. They look on it backwards. Instead of wanting to be saved from hell,
they feel they are guaranteed heaven, as long as they can find someone who is
worse than them. Have you ever heard this: Well, I’m not an axe murderer.

So, just because someone knows they should do good, live right, and be sorry for
their sins, why do they have to be mean to someone who doesn’t know by saying
they are choosing hell? That is mean. Because Jesus said some would come
saying “Lord, Lord” and He would say “I never knew you”. So you see, they will
be surprised, that is not choosing hell.

 

[mary1173]

No man or woman upon this earth can truly say who will go to Hell because we just don’t know. Only God knows who is truly repentant of their sins on their last day and it is not man that decides who finally goes to heaven. Only God has this authority to place you with him in heaven, or apart from him in Hell/COLOR]
Books can give guidelines and tell of the happenings of others, but God has the final word on someone’s salvation. If you follow the laws of the land you are also following God’s laws.
Infants who die before baptism do not in God’s eyes belong in Hell. They go to a place called Limbo. People lose their way in life, but from my personal experiences no one chooses Hell outright. It is in a state of confusion, doubt or despair that people are brought to judgement, but even in the deepest darkest moments of despair God knows that we do not choose to go to Hell. It is held as belief by many that despair and commiting suicide is temporary insanity. And God knows it is usually a desperate person trying to end an excruciating pain intheir mind and body that drives them to the act. And God has the power and does forgive human sins and frailties. Just like our earthly father our heavenly Father loves us and wants what is best for us.

 

[SAHMof3]

A fish who is attracted to a lure, and bites it, was thinking it was choosing something good, and did not choose the frying pan.

Similarly, the devil is laying snares for us, and often we go for it, thinking that is is something good (rationalizing). Who would choose a fiery furnace outright? The problem is that we believe the lie…just like the fish believed the lure was a real piece of food.

I have heard the same words from a priest some time ago: No one goes to hell unless they choose to. Your analogy is interesting, and I liked it, so I’m not picking on you. My question is: an alcoholic fits this analogy, the lure is the drink, and he repeatedly goes for the bait. So, a person in total dependence on alcohol (where the ability to say NO) simply doesn’t exist anymore, does that soul go to hell? Any responses welcome.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

No one goes to hell unless they choose to.

It’s a good thing God doesn’t see us as we see ourselves or as we see each other.
All we can do is set a good example.
Then the question comes: “How free is free will?”
If your conscience is clear, you have done the best you can do.
You cannot take away someone’s choice.
Around us there is a spiritual reality, it’s not totally our responsibility. We would like to be God in someone else’s life, the reality is - despite our best motivation, we can’t.

 

[Shin]

The choice of Hell is never truly a choice for Hell and its punishments, but always simply a serious choice for something other than God.

This thing can be something that is mostly good or mostly sin, but as long as it is grave sin, that is that.

 

[JRKH]

A fish who is attracted to a lure, and bites it, was thinking it was choosing something good, and did not choose the frying pan.

Similarly, the devil is laying snares for us, and often we go for it, thinking that is is something good (rationalizing). Who would choose a fiery furnace outright? The problem is that we believe the lie…just like the fish believed the lure was a real piece of food.

I have heard the same words from a priest some time ago: No one goes to hell unless they choose to. Your analogy is interesting, and I liked it, so I’m not picking on you. My question is: an alcoholic fits this analogy, the lure is the drink, and he repeatedly goes for the bait. So, a person in total dependence on alcohol (where the ability to say NO) simply doesn’t exist anymore, does that soul go to hell? Any responses welcome.

Not sure if the comparison you igve is really apples to apples, but consider this.
The question becomes whether the person loathes the sin, even when he is acting on it out of weakness. The Fish goes for the lure because he thinks it’s good, not because he knows it’s bad and does it anyway. Your Alcoholic knows that drink is bad but falls into the habit again anyway. He loathes the sin and Loathes himself for his weakness. So long as he sode not give up on himself or on God’s mercy he may well be saved in the end.
The alcoholic who dispairs of God’s mercy even unto death will likely not reach heaven. The key here being, not the alcoholism, but the dispair.

Peace
James

 

[Sonny1954]

If it is true that no one goes to hell unless they choose to, then hell must be pretty empty except for Satan and his angels. In order to really choose hell over heaven, one must know precisely what they are choosing and rejecting, as Lucifer did. I do not believe that anyone on this side of eternity has that kind of knowledge.

I can imagine that the exact moment the soul crosses from temporal time into eternal time, Christ shows it heaven and he shows itm hell. He shows it rapturous, irresistible beauty and nauseating, repulsive ugliness. The soul sees for the first time what these two destinations really are. I can’t imagine anyone preferring ugliness to beauty; it’s contrary to human nature. I think all of us are attracted to beauty and repulsed by ugliness, however we perceive those characteristics.

 

[JRKH]

If it is true that no one goes to hell unless they choose to, then hell must be pretty empty except for Satan and his angels. In order to really choose hell over heaven, one must know precisely what they are choosing and rejecting, as Lucifer did. I do not believe that anyone on this side of eternity has that kind of knowledge.

I can imagine that the exact moment the soul crosses from temporal time into eternal time, Christ shows it heaven and he shows itm hell. He shows it rapturous, irresistible beauty and nauseating, repulsive ugliness. The soul sees for the first time what these two destinations really are. I can’t imagine anyone preferring ugliness to beauty; it’s contrary to human nature. I think all of us are attracted to beauty and repulsed by ugliness, however we perceive those characteristics.

The last sentance is the clincher really. It is how we percieve these characterisitics that counts. If we perceive evil (pornography for example) as beautiful, and Beauty (Christ dequised as a street person for example) as ugly, which destination (heaven or hell) are we leaning towards??

Christ does show the person the two destinations at death, but by then the person has already made teh choice.
This is why it is said that one chooses heaven or hell. It is in how we form our minds and hearts during life that determines our choice at death. If we choose God’s Love and mercy; if we choose, to Love our neighbor as ourselves, if we act in Love and Charity, then we form our hearts to God and in so doing we choose heaven. If we shoose selfish Love, and Avarice, doing evil to our neighbor and refusing to act in charity, we form our hearts to eavil, and at death we gravitate toward that evil we have stored up for ourselves.

Peace
James

 

[MomAfterIF]

I dont want to start anything, but when I was little, I was always taught if you sin and continue to sin, you will go to Hell. However I was also taught all sins are forgiven. So when it comes to this question, I am just plain confused.

 

[Shin]

I dont want to start anything, but when I was little, I was always taught if you sin and continue to sin, you will go to Hell. However I was also taught all sins are forgiven. So when it comes to this question, I am just plain confused.

Only repented sins are forgiven. Even in the Confessional.

Most people don’t repent. They may feel sorry at the idea of the sin but that is not repentance. There is a great confusion that sentiment is repentance among many. It isn’t. That is only sorrow. One can be very sorrowed at ones sins and not repent.

Sorrow is very helpful, but it is not repentance. More is needed.

In fact, most people know what it is to lack the will to repent, they hold onto the idea of it for a moment – in Confession, and then it disappears a short while later.

This is incredibly dangerous, I recall reading St. Alphonsus tell the story of a young man in the Confessional who confessed the sin of impurity with many tears. He left it, and but a few minutes later was struck dead, and it was made known by revelation that he had gone to Hell, not to Heaven – because the moment before his death, he was tempted by a thought, and gave in.

How many people are put to the test on their deathbed and fail?

Many people want the idea of God and the sin at once. But that isn’t how repentance works either. Many people think they can have both grave sin and God at once. It isn’t true.

Which is part of why the majority do not go to Heaven. And why true repentance is so necessary.

 

[ML561]

One thing that troubles me is the pronouncement of Our Lady of Fatima that many people are in hell because they have no one to pray for them. How can these people be at fault? (By the way, I know that we are supposed to accept certain apparitions as genuine and bound to believe in them…is that correct?) I have committed myself to pray every day for everyone who does not have someone praying for them. I hope that helps. and if I am incorrect please let me know. The more I learn, the more I realize how ignorant I am. Peace be with you.

 

[JRKH]

One thing that troubles me is the pronouncement of Our Lady of Fatima that many people are in hell because they have no one to pray for them. How can these people be at fault? (By the way, I know that we are supposed to accept certain apparitions as genuine and bound to believe in them…is that correct?) I have committed myself to pray every day for everyone who does not have someone praying for them. I hope that helps. and if I am incorrect please let me know. The more I learn, the more I realize how ignorant I am. Peace be with you.

Good for you - Keep Praying

Peace
James