No one is singing!

[JRRTFAN]

I didn’t say that, and you know it. No need for snark. I’m simply refuting your statement that no one sings because its a band.

I have a band, and EVERYONE sings. I meant it exactly how I said it. The whole church. Very loudly.

What songs do they sing?

 

[Corki]

I can only speak for myself and my parish:

I usually sing unless the song is in a range I can’t adapt to. I can shift to another octave sometimes but some songs would require me to shift multiple times and I am just not that good.

I also don’t sing songs composed by the Hagan/Haas/Schutte trilogy. I signed a pledge.

Other than that, I sing and sing as loud as I can since our cantor is pretty bad.

As for the congregation, we don’t have a core selection of songs. Every week, it’s a whole new list. So for any given parishioner, some songs will be familiar and others completely alien. If you read music, great. If not, you are left out in the cold.

Also, our cantor loves to sing and likes to improvise. She breaks off into descant or into another language and this tends to confuse the congregation. When that happens, the singing just trails off.

We really don’t have anyone that never sings - except a few self-conscious teens. But there are plenty of people that refrain from singing any given song. The result is only about half of the parish singing at any one time.

 

[JRRTFAN]

I can only speak for myself and my parish:

I usually sing unless the song is in a range I can’t adapt to. I can shift to another octave sometimes but some songs would require me to shift multiple times and I am just not that good.

I also don’t sing songs composed by the Hagan/Haas/Schutte trilogy. I signed a pledge.

Also, our cantor loves to sing and likes to improvise. She breaks off into descant or into another language and this tends to confuse the congregation. When that happens, the singing just trails off.

We really don’t have anyone that never sings - except a few self-conscious teens. But there are plenty of people that refrain from singing any given song. The result is only about half of the parish singing at any one time.

If you don’t sing along with Marty, David and Dan you’d never sing anything in my parish. Even the Alleluia! All-lay, all-lay, all-lay loo-hoo-yah; all-lay, all-lay, all-lay, loo-hoo-yah; all-lay all-lay all-lay loo-hoo-yah; allelooya all-lay-loo-yah! Accompanied by piano. Caused one visiting priest to remark: I didn’t know Billy Joel played here

 

[roadsend]

If you don’t sing along with Marty, David and Dan you’d never sing anything in my parish. Even the Alleluia! All-lay, all-lay, all-lay loo-hoo-yah; all-lay, all-lay, all-lay, loo-hoo-yah; all-lay all-lay all-lay loo-hoo-yah; allelooya all-lay-loo-yah! Accompanied by piano. Caused one visiting priest to remark: I didn’t know Billy Joel played here

Pretty much the same sing along with Marty, David and Dan in my parish. About ten percent, sometimes much less, sing along with the “music ministers”. The percentage goes up quite a bit when they perform a more traditional hymn, usually of Protestant origin. On those rare occasions (such as feasts of Our Lady or Christmas) when a few traditional hymns of Catholic origin are sung the overwhelming majority of folks sing along.

 

[agapewolf]

What songs do they sing?

Well, if you would read my original statement, everything. I sing across all times. They will sing everything. But this had nothing to do with your original statement that its because it was a band leading that no one is singing.

and by the way, I am the biggest billy joel fan, and the halle song you quoted is most definitely not his style.

 

[Cat]

If you don’t sing along with Marty, David and Dan you’d never sing anything in my parish. Even the Alleluia! All-lay, all-lay, all-lay loo-hoo-yah; all-lay, all-lay, all-lay, loo-hoo-yah; all-lay all-lay all-lay loo-hoo-yah; allelooya all-lay-loo-yah! Accompanied by piano. Caused one visiting priest to remark: I didn’t know Billy Joel played here

Please don’t be mean.

It’s not funny or clever of you.

I play piano for Mass because it’s the only instrument I can play and I am willing to get up in front (or in back, depending on the church building) and do the best that I can to serve my Lord and His people in the Mass.

I started taking pipe organ lessons a month ago, and I think that perhaps in a year, I might be able to play the hymns during the congregational singing, but it seems doubtful. The pipe organ is really REALLY hard to learn, at least for me. It’s costing me $250.00 month in lesson fees, BTW, so when I say I’m taking pipe organ lessons, I really mean it.

So please don’t make fun of me and other pianists and compare us to Billy Joel.

The Church has NOT forbidden piano in the Mass. Just because YOU don’t like it doesn’t mean that we are doing something wrong or improper. Stop implying that we are.

Yes, I am upset about this!

 

[StarFireKK]

Ummm…I’m going to break Cat’s heart here, but…what in the world is four part music?

 

[johnnykins]

Ummm…I’m going to break Cat’s heart here, but…what in the world is four part music?

Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass - those are the voices in a choir from high to low. Most choral polyphonic music is written for those voices and most people sing naturally in one of them. A rule of thumb would be Soprano and Alto are high and low women’s voices and Tenor and Bass are high and low men’s voices. Children all usually have soprano voices (tiny little vocal cords!!) - hence Boy Soprano choirs.

 

[johnnykins]

Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass - those are the voices in a choir from high to low. Most choral polyphonic music is written for those voices and most people sing naturally in one of them. A rule of thumb would be Soprano and Alto are high and low women’s voices and Tenor and Bass are high and low men’s voices. Children all usually have soprano voices (tiny little vocal cords!!) - hence Boy Soprano choirs.

BTW opera singers voices are usually classed: soprano, mezzo-soprano and contralto for women (alto having sort of been divided) and counter tenor, tenor, baritone and bass (sometimes basso profundo too) for men.

Sometimes, too, people will use coloratura for a very high soprano, though that is not really correct. However, a coloratura soprano must be able to hit some very high notes in some operas.

 

[StarFireKK]

Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass - those are the voices in a choir from high to low. Most choral polyphonic music is written for those voices and most people sing naturally in one of them. A rule of thumb would be Soprano and Alto are high and low women’s voices and Tenor and Bass are high and low men’s voices. Children all usually have soprano voices (tiny little vocal cords!!) - hence Boy Soprano choirs.

I thought they just sang in different ranges (octaves?) but do they sing different notes too? Why do you need music written for four parts?

That seems kinda of complicated for Mass. If people are starting and stopping in different places or signing as a Soprano when they should be an Alto, etc.

I never remember doing that in school. We just all sang as a group. You can’t blame funding either, I had music classes until high school. And yes…I paid attention, I got an A in every class. I guess it was just a bad curriculum.

 

[Cat]

I thought they just sang in different ranges (octaves?) but do they sing different notes too? Why do you need music written for four parts?

That seems kinda of complicated for Mass. If people are starting and stopping in different places or signing as a Soprano when they should be an Alto, etc.

I never remember doing that in school. We just all sang as a group. You can’t blame funding either, I had music classes until high school. And yes…I paid attention, I got an A in every class. I guess it was just a bad curriculum.

No, it’s not complicated at all. This is easy stuff, easy enough for young children. Children can sing in parts, although they cannot sing the bass and tenor range. Once the boys’ voices have changed ,they can sing the tenor and bass parts.

And–I know I’m going to get blasted for this, but…PROTESTANTS have been singing in 4 parts for eons! If they can do it, surely Catholics can do it, too.

It’s really, really easy stuff.

The reason you need the parts written out is that most people do not have the parts memorized, and they are not always instinctive. I know a lot of the alto parts to traditional hymns because I have sung the alto since I was in grade school. And some of the parts I can make up as I go along because I play piano and I can “feel” where the part should be in my voice.

But some of the hymns and songs are hard to improvise parts for, and people like me ending up sounding really off, which is disturbing to others.

Here is a link to an example of a typical Protestant hymn out of a hymnal (I love this hymn, BTW): cbcg.org/Sheet_Music/32.pdf

You see, it’s not complicated at all. To those who read music, this is as easy to read as a children’s book.

 

[JRRTFAN]

Please don’t be mean.

It’s not funny or clever of you.

I play piano for Mass because it’s the only instrument I can play and I am willing to get up in front (or in back, depending on the church building) and do the best that I can to serve my Lord and His people in the Mass.

I started taking pipe organ lessons a month ago, and I think that perhaps in a year, I might be able to play the hymns during the congregational singing, but it seems doubtful. The pipe organ is really REALLY hard to learn, at least for me. It’s costing me $250.00 month in lesson fees, BTW, so when I say I’m taking pipe organ lessons, I really mean it.

So please don’t make fun of me and other pianists and compare us to Billy Joel.

The Church has NOT forbidden piano in the Mass. Just because YOU don’t like it doesn’t mean that we are doing something wrong or improper. Stop implying that we are.

Yes, I am upset about this!

Well, I didn’t say it, a visiting priest did. And he didn’t say it becuse it was a piano, he said it because of the way the piano was played in a honkey tonk manner. I don’t mind a piano, just when it’s played the way it is at my parish. If you choose to play it in a classic manner, more power to you.

If what the priest said, or my restating it here, offends you, you have my apologies. I hope when you become fluent with the organ you will play it. In our parish we had a fund drive for a 65,000 organ but our, perfectly organ competent, director of music chooses to use the piano instead.

 

[mariyka]

No, it’s not complicated at all. This is easy stuff, easy enough for young children. Children can sing in parts, although they cannot sing the bass and tenor range. Once the boys’ voices have changed ,they can sing the tenor and bass parts.

And–I know I’m going to get blasted for this, but…PROTESTANTS have been singing in 4 parts for eons! If they can do it, surely Catholics can do it, too.

It’s really, really easy stuff.

The reason you need the parts written out is that most people do not have the parts memorized, and they are not always instinctive. I know a lot of the alto parts to traditional hymns because I have sung the alto since I was in grade school. And some of the parts I can make up as I go along because I play piano and I can “feel” where the part should be in my voice.

But some of the hymns and songs are hard to improvise parts for, and people like me ending up sounding really off, which is disturbing to others.

Here is a link to an example of a typical Protestant hymn out of a hymnal (I love this hymn, BTW): cbcg.org/Sheet_Music/32.pdf

You see, it’s not complicated at all. To those who read music, this is as easy to read as a children’s book.

I agree with you, Cat. I remember singing “The Bell’s of St. Mary’s” in three part harmony in fifth grade. We loved it because it sounded so beautiful As I recall, the boys sang alto.

It’s not just Protestants that sing harmony, but also Eastern Catholics and Orthodox…and a capella!

I would love to try harmony on some of the hymns, but am chicken to do it alone, especially with no music to follow.

 

[Neildown]

Looking around while our choir and band were leading the hymns yesterday at Mass, I was struck by how few people were singing! I like to sing, so it’s no problem for me, and I understand that some of the music can be tricky, but even where the customary hymns are given at the customary places, most people just stare straight ahead. Do they feel awkward? I mean, c’mon, lift a joyful voice unto the Lord! Nobody cares if you’re Andrea Bocelli or Sarah Brightman or not, and even the priests are up there singing along half the time. What gives?

I’m self-conscious about singing , I feel like a ton of attention would be drawn to me if I did sing in church because neither my family nor my parish have EVER heard me sing [and quite frankly neither have I].

 

[Faithdancer]

Your post tells you why, one word, BAND. Give the band a nice retirement ceremony, dust of the organ and get an Adoremus Hymnal and start worshipping God with hymns instead of anything a BAND could play.

As an aside, my daughter is an Evangelical and I had gone to Easter VIgil Mass on Holy Saturday night, so I went with her Easter morning. They have a BAND, what those good people did to “All Creatures of Our God and King” would bring tears to the eyes of Francis of Assisi. Bands are good in arenas, at shows and High School football games. Don’t do BAND in Church!

I can’t disagree with you, JRRTFAN. I have a pretty fair singing range but I went to a service just this afternoon at a different church, and the “band” was a solo guitar player. He had a lovely tenor voice, but I couldn’t hit the highest notes, so I had to drop an octave, which is okay I guess. Well, not many people in that church sing along either, except for the priest and a few others.

In the years I spent in a Protestant church, I don’t seem to remember the hymns being that vocally challenging. And whats wrong with Latin hymns anyway???!!!

 

[Faithdancer]

By the way, I never imagined this thread would strike a chord (pun intended) in so many people here. It’s amazing how many people feel strongly about the subject, in all directions. But, like I’ve noticed on other forums and threads here at Catholic Answers, people are inclined to look for some common ground, to make up quickly when they ruffle somebody’s feathers and in general, to behave like Christians- even those who claim to be otherwise!

 

[ProVobis]

In the years I spent in a Protestant church, I don’t seem to remember the hymns being that vocally challenging. And whats wrong with Latin hymns anyway???!!!

You think if we can get the Protestants to sing Latin hymns, the Catholics will start singing them as well?

 

[Cat]

You think if we can get the Protestants to sing Latin hymns, the Catholics will start singing them as well?

This month’s Christianity Today has an article that mentions the developing popularity of liturgical practices among evangelical Protestants, especially younger people.

We have seen this in our city in various “emergent church” or “alternative church” worship services. Candles, chant, Latin, lectio divina, confession, and other liturgical practices are the norm at these services.