No one is singing!

[Joannm]

Actually, in my case, the faithful do manage to sing. I was asked by the celebrant to step in as cantor to lead the singing for the Solemnity of Corpus Christi. I chose traditional hymns that the faithful knew and they sang. What I did was start the songs and then step back a little so that they could sing.

The only time that I sang by myself was last weekend, when my dad’s pastor had asked me to help out and then wanted me to sing something brief to cover his entrance from the sacristy to the sanctuary (he is recovering from surgery). I exercised the first option in the GIRM and chanted the Simple English Proper for the 17th Sunday of Ordinary Time. It was long enough to cover his entrance and he was grateful. For Communion, I chanted the Communion SEP and then led into a hymn and invited the faithful to sing.

If done correctly, cantors can and do work.

In the parishes in our diocese the cantors usually don’t choose the music, the music directors do. I have been trying to convince our MD to introduce chant but she just won’t do it. I have called a meeting with the priests and her but it has to wait until all the vacations are over.

 

[TimothyH]

My thoughts on the matter.

Without exception, every individual Catholic reserves the right to himself or herself to stand quietly in prayer, knowing full well that whether or not he or she sings makes no difference to the graces being offered at the Mass. We are free to participate externally or internally based on our own desires.

The music is part of the liturgy, integral and native to it. The people are not making it. It is not generated by us. They can be part of it but it is not their primary responsibility. And when they sing, it is not to reinforce their perception of membership in a community. It is to more fully participate in sacred actions taking place in a liturgical manner. It comes from within the structure of the liturgy and is not imposed from without. It does not come from the people. It comes from the prayer in which the people are invited, but not required, to participate. You can issue all the proclamations you want to. You can yell and demand. But in the end, this Catholic sense of the role of the people’s song will not change.

Here is the controversial claim that I would like to make: there is nothing wrong with this. In fact, the people might be more correct here than their pundits who are always denouncing them. And if the people ever do relent and start singing like Baptists, within the current parish culture I know, the new ethos could come at the expense of the primary focus of the Roman Rite. The Catholic ritual is not people based or people centered. It is not given by the community as a gift each to other. It is a gift from God that we offer back to God, something we receive humbly as a blessing and an occasion of grace as we offer our lives back to God in sacrifice.

This is why the hymn—which I define here in the common usage as a metrically divided, melodically strophic song with rhyming vernacular text—has no traditional place in Catholic liturgy, particularly in not Mass. (I’m completely leaving out Office hymnody that does not fit my definitions for this piece.) Even the studies tracking the use of hymns in Catholic Mass find sources for anything like the modern hymn in the post-Trent age, influenced by the growing use of hymnody in Protestant worship. Before that, it was unknown.

I read the post. Lucid and well written. Congratulations.

I have to admit that when I had first heard the argument that hymns are not orgainic to the liturgy, that coming from a blog post by a US Bishop, I was a bit surprised and not a little put off. Having learned a bit of the history of the Mass however, I see the point. Who knew? We just always sang.

Your post actually cut to my heart, especially when contrasting Catholic worship to Baptist worship and the orgainic nature of hymns in a Baptist church.

I recall being at a Church dance in which people were yelling out the words of the song to which they were dancing. “Makes you wanna shout! Come on now, shout!” etc. Catholics can sing just fine in this context, with lights flashing and bodies moving. What is going on here? Nothing holy, nothing miraculous, nothing liturgical. It is just a party. Here Catholics sing just like anyone else. Why won’t they do the same at Mass? I would submit that if Catholics are going to sing like this at Mass, we will need to recreate the sense that lead the same people to shout at a Church dance.

You just may have convinced me. The sequence at the start of the Easter Vigil comes to mind. Then again, so does “Here I am Lord.”

I would submit that in some cultures, loud outbursts and making noise is the norm when in the presence of something awe inspiring. As was pointed out by Brother JR on another thread, we can’t force our cultural on others. But neither should we force Tantum Ergo sung to the tune of Hey Jude on them either.

Your comments are appreciated, at least from me, and as one who has flirted with Evangelical “Mosh pit for Christ” style worship - and rejected it - it does give much food for thought.

-Tim-

 

[SalesianSDB]

I think it depends on the parish. I go to two parishes down here and they are both very different as far as community. One of them is more, we gather on Sundays for an hour, while the other is we gather on Sunday, youth ministry after Mass, let’s get together over the week for fellowship and Catholic teachings. One isn’t a very active parish while the other is a very active parish with so many events and active ministries.

The not-so active parish is pretty quiet when it comes to singing. But in the active parish just about everyone is singing! They sing whether it’s with the whole band, or just the guitarist doing the Saturday evening Mass by himself.

I would say it depends on the characteristics of the individual parish.

 

[TheMc]

I read the post. Lucid and well written. Congratulations.

I have to admit that when I had first heard the argument that hymns are not orgainic to the liturgy, that coming from a blog post by a US Bishop, I was a bit surprised and not a little put off. Having learned a bit of the history of the Mass however, I see the point. Who knew? We just always sang.

Your post actually cut to my heart, especially when contrasting Catholic worship to Baptist worship and the orgainic nature of hymns in a Baptist church.

I recall being at a Church dance in which people were yelling out the words of the song to which they were dancing. “Makes you wanna shout! Come on now, shout!” etc. Catholics can sing just fine in this context, with lights flashing and bodies moving. What is going on here? Nothing holy, nothing miraculous, nothing liturgical. It is just a party. Here Catholics sing just like anyone else. Why won’t they do the same at Mass? I would submit that if Catholics are going to sing like this at Mass, we will need to recreate the sense that lead the same people to shout at a Church dance.

You just may have convinced me. The sequence at the start of the Easter Vigil comes to mind. Then again, so does “Here I am Lord.”

I would submit that in some cultures, loud outbursts and making noise is the norm when in the presence of something awe inspiring. As was pointed out by Brother JR on another thread, we can’t force our cultural on others. But neither should we force Tantum Ergo sung to the tune of Hey Jude on them either.

Your comments are appreciated, at least from me, and as one who has flirted with Evangelical “Mosh pit for Christ” style worship - and rejected it - it does give much food for thought.

-Tim-

I’m glad it helped. However, I guess looking back, I was really unclear. Jeffery Tucker ≠ TheMC. Here’s what should have posted above:

Here is a section of an article by Jeffery Tucker, which perfectly echos my thoughts on the matter:

Excellent article though, huh?

 

[TimothyH]

I’m glad it helped. However, I guess looking back, I was really unclear. Jeffery Tucker ≠ TheMC. Here’s what should have posted above:

Here is a section of an article by Jeffery Tucker, which perfectly echos my thoughts on the matter:

Excellent article though, huh?

Fair enough Mr. Tucker.

It is a good article, and like I said, food for thought.

I still have a place in my heart for “Here I am Lord” and a few others, expecially the Catholic classics - the ones you never hear on Protestant Christian radio - like “Take and Eat.” Loud sining a Baptist worship vs liturgy at Catholic worship is something that I will have to consider.

Just kidding about the Mr. Tucker.

-Tim-

 

[Blacksword]

As a convert from a Baptist background, some of the bad music (modern, contemporary pop fluff mostly) and the lack of singing bothered me, as well as the lack of singing. I love hymns and four part harmony (sorry to those who find this wonderful musical expression of unity through harmonized voice rather than mere uniform pitch from all to be a bad thing!). But I also am a trained singer from my college days, and I find that having a few people who sing out and sing well will get more people around them to sing. So that’s what I do at Mass, just sing out and not worry if no one else is. People around me tend to come along when they are encouraged by others singing!

 

[nickybr38]

As a convert from a Baptist background, some of the bad music (modern, contemporary pop fluff mostly) and the lack of singing bothered me, as well as the lack of singing. I love hymns and four part harmony (sorry to those who find this wonderful musical expression of unity through harmonized voice rather than mere uniform pitch from all to be a bad thing!). But I also am a trained singer from my college days, and I find that having a few people who sing out and sing well will get more people around them to sing. So that’s what I do at Mass, just sing out and not worry if no one else is. People around me tend to come along when they are encouraged by others singing!

Hee. I actually notice that people who don’t seem to sing tend to sing when I’m there belting out at the top of my voice beside them. I think it’s a group mentality… if one person stops the rest do but if one starts they rest will follow? Maybe?

 

[Phemie]

Here is another take on why no one is singing.

In the U.S., corporate singing is no longer part of our popular culture.

As recently as 50 years ago, Americans used to sing together for recreation and pleasure.

E.g., many companies had a company song. IBM is an example of a company that has a company song. We saw a copy of the official company song a few weeks ago when we attended a hundredth birthday celebration for IBM in Chicago. My husband actually sang it with all the other new recruits when he first recruited with IBM.

But now NO ONE sings the IBM Company Song, just like no one in IBM wears a white shirt, suit, and tie anymore!

It’s no longer part of the culture.

I grew up in a household where there was always music and singing. Mom played the piano, the accordion, guitar – all by ear. All the musicians I knew, the fiddlers, the guitar players, the piano players had one thing in common: an ear for music and an ability to reproduce what they heard. None could read music except the 2 women who played the organ at church. My brothers inherited Mom’s talent and started playing when they were about 4 or 5. I inherited my father’s ability to play the radio. The only people who learned music had private lessons.

 

[StarFireKK]

Why don’t I sing?

1. Because I can’t. Seriously, I can’t even hum. When I try to hum the Star Wars theme, it is star wars, Indiana Jones, and Stars and Stripes Forever along with whatever else I think might go. I’m not kidding. In College we would play a party game where you were suppose to hum a song and have your friends guess it. If I ever landed on the space my team was like “yeah we won’t get that point. Next!”
2. The Songs are hardly ever posted or announced so I can’t even follow along and lip-sync my heart out!
3. The songs are strange and they aren’t really fun to see.
4. Church music people tend to be…ahem…fanatical about music. The less you deal with them the more likely you are to survive Mass! (I am kidding people…but you are just a little tiny bit scary…)

Tiny rant here about the Protestants doing music better. WHO CARES? We aren’t Protestants! 90% of the Catholic Church (including the non-practicing ones) really don’t care what the Protestants are doing in their Churches. Yes they sing better…so did my high school Choir and I think that is just as relevant to the conversation.

Ok, thank you. I feel better now.

 

[Cat]

As long as I remember, we were always singing hymns like “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name,” “Immaculate Mary,” and “Come Holy Ghost” without any problems, even without instrumental accompaniment. Perhaps Cat has a point. Either that or we just don’t want to be told what to do.

That’s a very interesting statement–“We just don’t want to be told what to do.” Very interesting.

Over and over on these forums, I’ve read posts by people who say that “they will NOT sing if the song is something that is not suitable to them.”

Singing corporately involves giving up what WE want and joining in with the rest of the group, usually under the direction of a conductor, or in Masses, under the leadership of a cantor, choir, organist, or at times, a humble pianist. We have to sublimate what our preferences are, adjust our voice to not stand out, and do what everyone else is doing, and many of us, as you point out, have a rebellious streak in us that simply refuses to be part of the pack.

Some people excuse themselves from the singing by making excuse that a certain song is “heretical.” Well, maybe. But there are a lot of songs that are widely accepted by even conservative dioceses (e.g., Amazing Grace is sung all the time in our diocese, and we have a very conservative, orthodox bishop). Again, it seems to me what is happening is what ProVobis said–we are insisting on making our OWN decision instead of submitting to what another authority (the parish priest) has already decided. .

I’m not sure that’s a very Christian attitude. What does everyone else think?

It seems to me that the Christian attitude is to sublimate our own desires, recognize that our preferences are not always going to be met, and join our voices, small and rough as they are, with the rest of the congregation–and with the angels in heaven–in a show of unity and out of a desire to glorify God through music.

BTW, I personally don’t believe for a minute that the angels are standing by with folded wings and closed vocal apparatuses just because the hymn happens to be “Gather Us In.”

Anyway, it’s something to really carefully examine our hearts about–are we not singing because of some rebellious or prideful streak in our hearts that simply refuses to allow someone else to tell us what to do?

 

[TrueLight]

There is a reason God gave us the ability to sing - all for his Glory.

Psalm 100:1-2
A Psalm for giving thanks. Make a joyful noise to the Lord, all the earth! Serve the Lord with gladness! Come into his presence with singing!

Psalm 95:1-2
Oh come, let us sing to the Lord; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation! Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!

Psalm 13:6
I will sing to the Lord, because he has dealt bountifully with me.

Mark 14:26
And when they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

 

[Cat]

Here’s the problem–when the time comes in the liturgy of the Mass for “corporate singing,” it won’t work if people opt out and only a few people are left to carry the song. That’s not corporate singing anymore . You ruin the corporate singing for those who DO want to join their voices with their fellow Christians and sing fully and joyfully to the Lord for His glory.

It’s kind of hard to do that when only a few people are joining in the song, and the others are protesting (Protestants) because 1) it’s too high 2) they don’t know the song 3) they refuse to sing the song because they have figured out that it is heretical even though the priest doesn’t realize it yet 4) other.

It’s kind of like playing a game–if a game calls for four people, and only three are willing to play, then no one can play the game . The three people can play a half-butted version of the game, making up different rules as they go along to accommodate the missing person. But it’s NOT the game as it is intended to be. It’s ruined because of the spoil-sport who refuses to join in.

Corporate hymns are intended to be sung by the entire congregation. It’s sound good that way–full and strong. That’s what that portion of the liturgy is–corporate singing.

We wouldn’t dream of opting out of other portions of the liturgy, would we? E.g., let’s say that you didn’t agree with the Kyrie–would you simply not say it, but just stand there? Or let’s say that your least favorite priest was presiding and you hate his homilies–would you refuse to listen and put your hands over your ears, or simply tune out? Obviously if we’re talking about a priest who teaches heresy, e.g., abortion is OK–yes, we should refuse to listen. But I’m talking about a priest who just isn’t a very good homilist.

Of course we wouldn’t opt out of portions of the liturgy that we disagree with. I realize that some people opt out of the Sign of Peace, and that’s another issue not for this thread. But for the most part, we participate in the liturgy, all portions of it.

So why do we think we have a right to mess up a portion of the liturgy for the rest of the congregation?

Now if just a few people opt out of singing for various reasons, that’s not going to make much difference. There are always people who truly are sick or have a sore throat and they can’t sing that day.

But in many Catholic parishes, it’s NOT just a few people–it’s most of the congregation! That’s why the OP started this thread!

This morning at Mass, I and one other old lady were the only ones singing out of perhaps 150 people. (We sang “Holy Holy Holy, Lord God Almighty”–this is a hymn that I learned all the verses of when I was in 2nd grade–no excuses, no one can say that they “don’t know it.”)

Hey, if we’re going to be the only ones singing, then this portion of the lituryg is no longer “corporate singing of a hymn,” but “solo singing of a hymn by Cat and friend.” And as far as I know, there is no “solo singing” by anyone in the liturgy of the Mass, right?!

So in conclusion, don’t mess it up it for other people. Make corporate singing CORPORATE.

One more thing–many of the so-called “contemporary hymns” have been around for 40 years or more. If you don’t know them by now, learn them. This excuse is pretty thin. There are people on CAF who swear that people can learn Gregorian chant by listening to tutorials online . Well, if we can do that, then we can learn a simple three-chord modern hymn by listening to a Youtube version. Or better, ask the pianist or organist to run through the hymn with you after Mass sometime–he/she would be very happy to do this! (Ask me!)

 

[MissRose73]

I enjoy singing at Mass even when I was a child. Of course, everyone has their favorite hymns and songs to sing too, and I am not alone on that as I have my personal favorites. I know not all are trained singers and/or professionals, but at least give it a decent effort even if you cannot carry a note. Most place either offer a missalette or project the words.

Great psalm here…

Psalm 95:1-2
Oh come, let us sing to the Lord; let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation! Let us come into his presence with thanksgiving; let us make a joyful noise to him with songs of praise!

 

[TrueLight]

Great psalm here…

What I think is even more interesting is that verse in Mark 14. Let me post a longer passage.

7 When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. 18 While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me.”

19 They were saddened, and one by one they said to him, “Surely you don’t mean me?”

20 “It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me. 21 The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born.”

22 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take it; this is my body.”

23 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, and they all drank from it.

24 “This is my blood of the[c] covenant, which is poured out for many,” he said to them. 25 “Truly I tell you, I will not drink again from the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

26 When they had sung a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

Oh my goodness, after receiving communion they sung a hymn! This passage also implies that Jesus sang along with them, as part of the Liturgy!

Whaddaya know!

 

[Cat]

What I think is even more interesting is that verse in Mark 14. Let me post a longer passage.

Oh my goodness, after receiving communion they sung a hymn! This passage also implies that Jesus sang along with them, as part of the Liturgy!

Whaddaya know!

Beautiful. Thank you for posting this.

Perhaps an artist needs to create a portrait of Jesus singing with His disciples–wouldn’t that be inspiring and touching?

 

[lon]

I’m with TheMc (and others) on this one. We don’t need to sing out loud (or even respond out loud) to actively participate in the Mass. As long as the celebrant follows the rubrics closely enough to say a valid mass, we actively participate in the mass by hearing it (physically, i.e. not via TV etc (and I don’t exclude the deaf, or those too far away to hear well, as long as they are physically present), (and a sound system is OK, too)) and intending to participate in the mass. And we aren’t even legally responsible if the celebrant makes an invalid hash of the mass, as long as we intended to participate in a valid mass.

The notion that everyone has to (mechanically or otherwise) perform the same actions in lock-step in order to be doing the same thing is a modern mass-conceit (no pun intended).

That said, I’m not against singing (even poorly). But teach people simple chant, and on a regular basis, and I would not be surprised if more people sing. But don’t assume that those who don’t sing aren’t participating.

 

[Irishgal49]

Looking around while our choir and band were leading the hymns yesterday at Mass, I was struck by how few people were singing! I like to sing, so it’s no problem for me, and I understand that some of the music can be tricky, but even where the customary hymns are given at the customary places, most people just stare straight ahead. Do they feel awkward? I mean, c’mon, lift a joyful voice unto the Lord! Nobody cares if you’re Andrea Bocelli or Sarah Brightman or not, and even the priests are up there singing along half the time. What gives?

You mean they are still there? At the end of our service everyone almost kills each other to leave so that no one is left for the final hymn. I’d like to know where is the fire and why can’t people STOP being rude and finish the song.

 

[Faithdancer]

I believe you responded to a joke…

I wasn’t sure if it was dry humor or not, that’s why I prefaced my reply with “If that’s true.”

 

[Faithdancer]

You mean they are still there? At the end of our service everyone almost kills each other to leave so that no one is left for the final hymn. I’d like to know where is the fire and why can’t people STOP being rude and finish the song.

At least a lot of folks clap along with the final hymn, once the choir leader gets them started. They clap on their way out the door during the hymn, lol!

 

[Faithdancer]

Well, I’ll give our Filipino parishioners credit, more of them seem to sing than any of the rest. I wound up at a Filipino mass by accident, they start singing the hymns in Tagalog, and I sang right along with them. I had no idea what I was singing, and I’m sure I was butchering the pronunciation, but nobody seemed to care!