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GregoryPalamas
Guest
Would you all hold my hand and place my heart in your tender care. Remind me and other converts why we converted. Why did I leave 27 years of active and mostly fruitful ministry as a UM pastor for this cowardice? Why did I leave the one livelihood I knew for a 2/3 cut in salary? Why did I leave my friends?
Seriously, help this convert to the Church know why he shouldn’t be the nihilist that this bishop apparently is?
CDL
Seriously, help this convert to the Church know why he shouldn’t be the nihilist that this bishop apparently is?
CDL
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Ecce_homo_1
Guest
Careful Richardols won’t let that slide, apparently he’s been given board moderation duties…
Anyway, keep the faith, grouse about it if it makes you feel better, write the Bishop a letter, or simply discuss the issue on a discussion board.
You’ve sacrificed greatly for the faith, and I can understand how the current situation can have you reeling. Just pray and hope our Bishops can grow a spine and finnaly condemn those that openly support abortion and do their duty as the shepherd they’re supposed be and protect those outside the sacraments from receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ in the Eucharist.
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pnewton
Guest
You are not alone in making sacrifices for converting. I am reminded of advice I have to give people who work for me when they get frustrated with others who do not do their job (as I believe is the case with such a priest). You can not be responsible or worry about everyone else’s duty or lack of attention to duty. You can address it or attempt to redress it. You can cover up for it or let the person hang. But the moment you start to become emotional to the point it affects you, then you need top step back and concentrate on just doing your job.
I have also found this helpful in dealing with problems in the Church. What will breing reform is not letters or complaints, but saints. Being that saint is our job.
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Follower
Guest
To me, the point quoted above hits the nail on the head. The appropriate response of the Church to notorious pro-“abortion-rights” Catholic politicians’ receiving Holy Communion is to hold a pre-emptive press conference and announce to the media, the faithful, and the world, what it means, what the communicant is implicitly saying, when presenting himself or herself for Holy Communion. The announcement should specifically state, “Among other things, the communicant is saying that he/she is in full communion with the Church and has been to sacramental confession, received absolution and done penance for any grave sin. Because it is the firm teaching of the Church that support of abortion rights through one’s actions as a public official is always and everywhere a grave sin, the media should infer – and the faithful, the entire Church, and Heaven above should rejoice – when and if John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Dick Durbin or other heretofore ‘pro-abortion-rights’ politicians present themselves for Holy Communion – because what they will necessarily be stating by their action is that they have confessed and repented of their prior pro-abortion rights stance, and are now once again in communion with the Church. And that is big, and welcome, and joyful news!”
I guarantee that if such a statement were made, loudly and persistently by the Church hierarchy, the likes of Pelosi, Durbin et al would not present themselves for Holy Communion. Such an approach properly puts the burden on the communicant, where it belongs. Priests and extroardiary ministers distributing Communion have no way of knowing for sure whether the person presenting him- or herself for Communion has confessed and repented. Today is the feast day of the conversion of St. Paul. Our faith teaches - rightly - that conversion even of the most notorious sinner is always a possibility and, when it happens, can happen literally instantaneously. Moreover, many of our priests are elderly and don’t see well; many are foreign; with all they have to do they cannot be expected to memorize the faces and voting records of our public officials; and there are instances where people happen to resemble public officials so there could be cases of mistaken identity. (Some poor fellow out there might look like Ted Kennedy. As “Ron Smith’s Hollywood Lookalikes” has demonstrated, in a nation of 300 million people, you can almost always find a handful of people out there who resemble famous people.) All of these practical obstacles, combined with the consideration (that today’s feast day underscores) that conversion is always possible and can be instantaneous - suggest to me that the best approach is the one outlined above.
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Jerome42
Guest
This is a greate idea! We only need to implore our Bishops/Archbisops/Cardinals to issue such clarification.
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b_justb
Guest
BRAVO! You’re hired. Well done.
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Jerome42
Guest
Quote: Ecce_homo
unless you’re ready to be as scrupulous with yourself and your own posts.
The **‘beast’ **is on the loose in the world today. Particularly in our country. One only has to read/hear the news of the day viz. child molesters/killers, movies about the rape of 12 year old girl, movies obout bestiality, the public’s acceptance of perversion and devient behavior by our past political leaders (“ah didn’t have sex with that woman”). The culture of death (abortion/embryonic destruction, disregard for life,etc.).
These are just some examples how low we have sunk.
Wake up and smell the brimstone!
unless you’re ready to be as scrupulous with yourself and your own posts.
This should not deter you. We need to bring these things into the open!
The **‘beast’ **is on the loose in the world today. Particularly in our country. One only has to read/hear the news of the day viz. child molesters/killers, movies about the rape of 12 year old girl, movies obout bestiality, the public’s acceptance of perversion and devient behavior by our past political leaders (“ah didn’t have sex with that woman”). The culture of death (abortion/embryonic destruction, disregard for life,etc.).
These are just some examples how low we have sunk.
Wake up and smell the brimstone!
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MichaelTDoyle
Guest
My goodness! This is a silly post. You know the answer! The Catholic Church was the one and only Church founded by Christ and led then by Peter. The Catholic Church is the only Church with the fulllness of the truth with the explicit promise from Christ in scripture to preserve her from error, a promise held true for 2,000 years.
The Church has the Apostolic succession to forgive sins as Jesus commanded with I believe great joy after the ressurection.
You converted because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and this Church is His Church. This Church has the unbroken Way gaurded by the Holy Spirit and if you want to get closer to Him in this life here are the sacraments for you and the teachings, hard as they are.
That is why. You made a spankin’ good decision!
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mary_bobo
Guest
This is not a silly post. He is supporting the tenets of the Church and by so doing, he is asking where are the faithful Catholics who support this laxity in our bishops. Would that more of us would do the same.My goodness! This is a silly post. You know the answer! The Catholic Church was the one and only Church founded by Christ and led then by Peter. The Catholic Church is the only Church with the fulllness of the truth with the explicit promise from Christ in scripture to preserve her from error, a promise held true for 2,000 years.
The Church has the Apostolic succession to forgive sins as Jesus commanded with I believe great joy after the ressurection.
You converted because Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life and this Church is His Church. This Church has the unbroken Way gaurded by the Holy Spirit and if you want to get closer to Him in this life here are the sacraments for you and the teachings, hard as they are.
That is why. You made a spankin’ good decision!
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mary_bobo
Guest
I sympathize with your sentiments. I was away from the Church for many years, but having been taught by terrific nuns, I never denied the teachings of the church in this area. Abortion is wrong, no ifs, ands, or buts. Please know that many of us understand your feelings, but you made the courageous move to Catholicism because you learned it is the one true Church. Don’t let skepticism creep into your thoughts. Just as there are good and bad people in this world, there are good and bad Catholics. The most constructive thing we can do is pray for them. But it is sad to see the negative publicity this gives to the church. God bless.
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mary_bobo
Guest
Good post. But are we to assume that they have repented and thus are rightfully receiving Communion? And if priests do not readily recognize public figures, they are not keeping up with what is going on in the world. This idea of “lookalikes” is pretty far fetched, IMO.
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Follower
Guest
Yes, but there’s a catch. My point is, the Church should tell the media that THEY should assume so, along with the whole world, because of what the communicant is necessarily saying by his/her act of receiving Communion. The way it would play out is, suppose, for example, Nancy Pelosi were to receive Holy Communion after the Bishops make the announcement recommended above. A story would then be published or go on the air, with the following lead or headline: “Nancy Pelosi Disavows and Repents of Her Prior Pro-Abortion-Rights Actions.” If the media don’t run with the story on their own, the Catholic Bishops could instigate the story, by holding a press conference, announcing “with great joy” that Nancy Pelosi must have repented of her pro-abortion-rights actions, because “it has come to our attention that Nancy Pelosi received Holy Communion”; and, “if this is true, it is joyful news indeed!” The Bishops in their press conference would explain the significance of the act of presenting oneself for Holy Communion and what that must mean if it’s true that Nancy Pelosi did so. If Nancy Pelosi then issued a public clarification, affirming that yes, she did receive Holy Communion, but no, she absolutely has not and does not disavow her pro-abortion rights actions, then the Church should declare her excommunicated – and should do the same with any other Catholic pro-abortion-rights public official.
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mary_bobo
Guest
Interesting theory. As long as she is in public life, I don’t think Mrs. Pelosi will ever publicly disavow abortions. It’s one of those things these politicians say, “I don’t believe in it, but I cannot tell others what to believe.” What a cop-out. I just remain concerned what the rest of the church folks (other religions) think of the church.
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Fitz
Guest
I agree that the prochoice Catholics in office will not change one bit while in office. I have had Protestant friends make comments to me about the likes of Ted Kennedy buying his annulment. They assume he has one. I really am ashamed of this faction of our church. I don’t believe in shunning people like some religions, yet we VOTE for these people. Isn’t that the opposite of shunning? I don’t vote for them, but many Catholic do. How are we helping this problem?
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mary_bobo
Guest
You are so right, Fitz. It leaves a very false impression to our protestant brothers and sisters when they see this kind of thing going on. And then there is the ease with which one seems to be able to get an annulment these days. It may not be true, but it certainly appears that money can buy annulments. And if Teddy did not get an annulment, he has excommunicated himself. I truly fear for the future of our church in the coming years.
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