- Status
G
GKC
Guest
Sure. I’m reasonably familiar with the AU, and have a few opinions on it. There was once an AU parish in my home town, a sort of sister parish to my own traditional Anglican parish (we both began as a split off ECUSA, mainly from the same Episcopalian parish, when ECUSA ran off the rails, back in the 70s. And I know the guy who drew the frontispiece for the AU Book of Divine Worship.
Hook me up.
GKC
Posterus traditus Anglicanus
B
believers
Guest
You’re very welcome. Enjoy your exercise. :knight2:
Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)
Jhn 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Jhn 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:55
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
REMEMBER, JESUS DEFINED MEAT CHAPTER 4
Jhn 4:34
Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.
Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jhn 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:58
This is that bread which came down from heaven: NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
J
johnstown_johnn
Guest
Believers: This is a beautiful and coherent litany. These words excite the soul and give us hope (something that seems to less focused on in these times) and speaks to eternal life.
As St. Paul wrote, “…no eyes have ever seen, nor ears ever heard all the wonderful things God has in store for those who love Him…{paraphrasing}.”
Jesus is indeed amongst us in His entire being in the Eucharist.
B
believers
Guest
No, He isn’t. Did you notice that I used the words of Jesus to refute that claim? In fact, for the most part I stayed in Chapter 6 for the exception of the definition of meat. Jesus defined this term in Chapter 4.Believers: This is a beautiful and coherent litany. These words excite the soul and give us hope (something that seems to less focused on in these times) and speaks to eternal life.
As St. Paul wrote, “…no eyes have ever seen, nor ears ever heard all the wonderful things God has in store for those who love Him…{paraphrasing}.”
Jesus is indeed amongst us in His entire being in the Eucharist.
M
Mickey
Guest
And might I add, that you refuted nothing. As a matter of fact, your little Bible lesson enhances the beauty and truth of the Real Presence!
Thanks believers!
S
SPH1
Guest
When Christ said that where two or three are gathered in my name, I am present, I believe he most directly meant the Eucharist/Mass…the only thing he left by which he was to be “remembered.”
Protestants lack the “real presence” not only because of lack of valid orders, but also lack of proper belief in the Sacrament. Most don’t believe that Christ is “really present” anyway.
In what sense do Protestants mean that Christ is “present” when they gather? Spiritually? How so? Is Christ coming down from Heaven and invisibly hovering among them? Is it that Christ is merely on their minds?
Protestants lack the “real presence” not only because of lack of valid orders, but also lack of proper belief in the Sacrament. Most don’t believe that Christ is “really present” anyway.
In what sense do Protestants mean that Christ is “present” when they gather? Spiritually? How so? Is Christ coming down from Heaven and invisibly hovering among them? Is it that Christ is merely on their minds?
H
holy_wood
Guest
Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same, My name shall be great among the Gentiles. And in every place incense shall be offered unto My name, and a pure offering; for My name shall be great among the heathen," saith the LORD of hosts.
This is a prophecy of the Eucharist.
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same, My name shall be great among the Gentiles. And in every place incense shall be offered unto My name, and a pure offering; for My name shall be great among the heathen," saith the LORD of hosts.
This is a prophecy of the Eucharist.
- Notice that Gods name will be great among the Gentiles (i.e. everyone who is not jewish)/Christians.
- Notice that incence and a pure offering will be offerd to God.
(The only true offering ever made was Christ on the Cross) - Notice that it is the same offering being made everyday and in many parts of the Earth
( Only the Catholic Church, both East and West, hold Mass everyday and offer the Eucharist up as a sacrifice representing it to the Lord of Host. - We also use incence too.
B
believers
Guest
Well… Your religion says that by eating the Eucharist you receive Jesus but you’re religion is unable to say that you have eternal life by eating the Eucharist.And might I add, that you refuted nothing. As a matter of fact, your little Bible lesson enhances the beauty and truth of the Real Presence!
Thanks believers!
Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)
H
holy_wood
Guest
Hey I have a question to the Protestants here. If we could ask an Apostle who knew Jesus if Christ was really speaking literally or metaphorically would you listen?
But ah man, none of them ever explicitly spoke either way on the matter. I guess were back at square one.
Oh wait luckily were not if the Apostles did not speak explicitly on the matter then one of their deciples might have. Lets see.
Oh yes, here we go, St. Ignasius of Antioch. Good guy** he was the third Bishop of Antioch and a 40 year deciple of the Apostle John** as well. He’s definetly someone who has the authority and knowledge about Christ teachings to trump any teachings of the 21st century Pastor today.
So let us see what this **40 year deciple of the Apostle John **has to say on the issue of the Eucharist…
Letter to the Smyrnaeans
"Let no one be deceived! Even the heavenly powers and the angels in their splendor and the principalities, both visible and invisible, must either believe in the Blood of Christ, or else face damnation. Let him grasp it who can. Let no rank puff up anyone; for faith and love are paramount–the greatest blessings in the world**…From Eucharist and prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving-kindness raised from the dead.** And so, those who question the gift of God perish in their contentiousness.
Letter to the Ephesians **
Make an effort, then, to meet more frequently to celebrate God’s Eucharist and to offer praise**. For, when you meet frequently in the same place, the forces of Satan are overthrown, and his baneful influence is neutralized by the unanimity of your faith. Peace is a precious thing: it puts an end to every war waged by heavenly or earthly enemies.
Letter to the Philadelphians
Take care, then, to partake of one Eucharist; for, one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one the cup to unite us with His Blood, and one altar, just as there is one bishop assisted by the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow servants. Thus you will conform in all your actions to the will of God.](Apostolic Succession /Just thought I’d emphasize that a little)
Wow, thats deep, if this 40 year deciple of the Apostle John believed in the Eucharist, why don’t you???
But ah man, none of them ever explicitly spoke either way on the matter. I guess were back at square one.
Oh wait luckily were not if the Apostles did not speak explicitly on the matter then one of their deciples might have. Lets see.
Oh yes, here we go, St. Ignasius of Antioch. Good guy** he was the third Bishop of Antioch and a 40 year deciple of the Apostle John** as well. He’s definetly someone who has the authority and knowledge about Christ teachings to trump any teachings of the 21st century Pastor today.
So let us see what this **40 year deciple of the Apostle John **has to say on the issue of the Eucharist…
Letter to the Smyrnaeans
"Let no one be deceived! Even the heavenly powers and the angels in their splendor and the principalities, both visible and invisible, must either believe in the Blood of Christ, or else face damnation. Let him grasp it who can. Let no rank puff up anyone; for faith and love are paramount–the greatest blessings in the world**…From Eucharist and prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving-kindness raised from the dead.** And so, those who question the gift of God perish in their contentiousness.
Letter to the Ephesians **
Make an effort, then, to meet more frequently to celebrate God’s Eucharist and to offer praise**. For, when you meet frequently in the same place, the forces of Satan are overthrown, and his baneful influence is neutralized by the unanimity of your faith. Peace is a precious thing: it puts an end to every war waged by heavenly or earthly enemies.
Letter to the Philadelphians
Take care, then, to partake of one Eucharist; for, one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one the cup to unite us with His Blood, and one altar, just as there is one bishop assisted by the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow servants. Thus you will conform in all your actions to the will of God.](Apostolic Succession /Just thought I’d emphasize that a little)
Wow, thats deep, if this 40 year deciple of the Apostle John believed in the Eucharist, why don’t you???
B
believers
Guest
Wow, thats deep, if this 40 year deciple of the Apostle John believed in the Eucharist, why don’t you???Hey I have a question to the Protestants here. If we could ask an Apostle who knew Jesus if Christ was really speaking literally or metaphorically would you listen?
But ah man, none of them ever explicitly spoke either way on the matter. I guess were back at square one.
Oh wait luckily were not if the Apostles did not speak explicitly on the matter then one of their deciples might have. Lets see.
Oh yes, here we go, St. Ignasius of Antioch. Good guy** he was the third Bishop of Antioch and a 40 year deciple of the Apostle John** as well. He’s definetly someone who has the authority and knowledge about Christ teachings to trump any teachings of the 21st century Pastor today.
So let us see what this **40 year deciple of the Apostle John **has to say on the issue of the Eucharist…
Letter to the Smyrnaeans
"Let no one be deceived! Even the heavenly powers and the angels in their splendor and the principalities, both visible and invisible, must either believe in the Blood of Christ, or else face damnation. Let him grasp it who can. Let no rank puff up anyone; for faith and love are paramount–the greatest blessings in the world**…From Eucharist and prayer they hold aloof**, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His loving-kindness raised from the dead. And so, those who question the gift of God perish in their contentiousness.
Letter to the Ephesians **
Make an effort, then, to meet more frequently to celebrate God’s Eucharist and to offer praise**. For, when you meet frequently in the same place, the forces of Satan are overthrown, and his baneful influence is neutralized by the unanimity of your faith. Peace is a precious thing: it puts an end to every war waged by heavenly or earthly enemies.
Letter to the Philadelphians
Take care, then, to partake of one Eucharist; for, one is the Flesh of Our Lord Jesus Christ, and one the cup to unite us with His Blood, and one altar, just as there is one bishop assisted by the presbytery and the deacons, my fellow servants. Thus you will conform in all your actions to the will of God.](Apostolic Succession
Hey, I have an idea too. Why don’t we listen to what Jesus has to say about His flesh in the same Chapter 6 in the Gospel of John.
Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)
M
Mickey
Guest
Your repetitive diatribe is confusing. What point are you trying to prove? You post the same material for your argument over and over again–yet it proves the Catholic position. You are an apologist of a different breed!
M
Mickey
Guest
This simply tells us that the Son does the will of the Father.
H
holy_wood
Guest
I am listening to Jesus.
The problem is that we are reading the same versus and getting different conclsions. For this reason the next logical course of action is to look to those history and tradition shows knew Jesus or his Apostles.Tell me, do you deny the fact that St. Ignatius was a 40 year deciple of the Apostle John?
Do you deny the fact that he was the third Bishop of Antioch?
Or do you simply believe Ignatius was so poorly taught by the Apostle John as to have been led to believe in the supposedly erroneous doctrine such as the real presence?
Or perhaps you believe that this 40 year deciple of the Apostle John was so prideful that he ignored the teachings of the Apostle and made up his own teachings?
Christ was speaking literally. If he was speaking metaphorically he told his followers to do harm to him and despise him in order to enter the kingdom.
He also would be guilty of letting his deciples go astray not truly understanding him.
Christ atoned for our sins. He was the lamb of God. In the OT it had to be eaten as does Christ.
B
believers
Guest
Jhn 6:27This simply tells us that the Son does the will of the Father.
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)
B
believers
Guest
The only way to receive Jesus is to turn to Him in faith. Believe on him (John 3:16). In other words, believe in the finished work of Jesus on the cross. He paid for your sins with His own blood. You cannot receive Him by eating the Eucharist… only by faith.I am listening to Jesus.
Tell me, do you deny the fact that St. Ignatius was a 40 year deciple of the Apostle John?
Do you deny the fact that he was the third Bishop of Antioch?
Or do you simply believe Ignatius was so poorly taught by the Apostle John as to have been led to believe in the supposedly erroneous doctrine such as the real presence?
Or perhaps you believe that this 40 year deciple of the Apostle John was so prideful that he ignored the teachings of the Apostle and made up his own teachings?
Christ was speaking literally. If he was speaking metaphorically he told his followers to do harm to him and despise him in order to enter the kingdom.
He also would be guilty of letting his deciples go astray not truly understanding him.
Christ atoned for our sins. He was the lamb of God. In the OT it had to be eaten as does Christ.
B
believers
Guest
Not everyone will receive the words of Jesus.Your repetitive diatribe is confusing. What point are you trying to prove? You post the same material for your argument over and over again–yet it proves the Catholic position. You are an apologist of a different breed!
Jesus = Living Bread (John 6:51)
Living Bread = Flesh (John 6:51)
Flesh = Meat (John 6:55)
Meat = work of God (John 4:34) Already explained.
Work of God = believe on Jesus (John 6:28-29)
Believe on Jesus = have everlasting life (Jhn 6:40) Everlasting life is the result of eating his flesh.
Living Bread = NOT AS YOUR FATHERS DID EAT MANNA, AND ARE DEAD (John 6:58)
R
rbarcia
Guest
believers, you have shown plainly from the Word of God that meat spoken of in John is the work of God, to believe in Jesus for everlasting life. Thank you.
J
johnstown_johnn
Guest
You had me fooled. I apologize for extolling your referrals. I misunderstood where you are coming from.
You are in line with Lutheran concepts of the Eucharist and its actual Presence. This is a Catholic forum eventhough Lutherans are invited to (name removed by moderator)ut.
The Presence is real indeed. get thee behind me !
B
believers
Guest
Does everyone have eternal life by eating the eucharist?You had me fooled. I apologize for extolling your referrals. I misunderstood where you are coming from.
You are in line with Lutheran concepts of the Eucharist and its actual Presence. This is a Catholic forum eventhough Lutherans are invited to (name removed by moderator)ut.
The Presence is real indeed. get thee behind me !
- Status