No Salvation Outside The Church?

[mo3]

If it’s possible to be saved without being Catholic, what’s the purpose of this website/forum? Why should someone convert to the Catholic Church and worry about mortal and venial sins, what the Pope teaches, etc., when it’s possible to find salvation without being Catholic?

The Bible tells us to let our yes mean yes and our no mean no… To say that there is no salvation outside the church means that persons who are not catholic (who are thus, outside the church) can be saved by some sort of extraordinary means is a kind of doublespeak that renders the teaching meaningless.

The Church has “never” taught you “must be Catholic to be saved.” Unfortunately, some priests and Catholics have made this false statement.

When the Church teaches “there is no salvation outside the church” it does not mean you must be a card carrying member. If we are to follow His Church, then we must know what His Church means when it makes this statement. There is a lot more to this statement than one sentence. Please read the CCC on this subject.

Catholics makes a big mistake when they miss-interpret this teaching and put it in the face of our non-Catholics brothers and sisters.

God bless.

 

[cathdoki]

The Church has “never” taught you “must be Catholic to be saved.” Unfortunately, some priests and Catholics have made this false statement.

When the Church teaches “there is no salvation outside the church” it does not mean you must be a card carrying member. If we are to follow His Church, then we must know what His Church means when it makes this statement. There is a lot more to this statement than one sentence. Please read the CCC on this subject.

Catholics makes a big mistake when they miss-interpret this teaching and put it in the face of our non-Catholics brothers and sisters.

God bless.

Now that deserves a

 

[Acts831]

No one answered my question(s).

 

[davidv]

The Church has “never” taught you “must be Catholic to be saved.” Unfortunately, some priests and Catholics have made this false statement.

When the Church teaches “there is no salvation outside the church” it does not mean you must be a card carrying member. If we are to follow His Church, then we must know what His Church means when it makes this statement. There is a lot more to this statement than one sentence. Please read the CCC on this subject.

Catholics makes a big mistake when they miss-interpret this teaching and put it in the face of our non-Catholics brothers and sisters.

God bless.

If you use the definition of “Catholic” as the Church does in making the declaration in the title of this thread, one must be “Catholic” to enter heaven. In this case Catholic does not mean a registered member of their local parish.

 

[cathdoki]

No one answered my question(s).

I did answer your question.

 

[Acts831]

cathdoki:

I did answer your question.

No you didn’t. I asked what the purpose of this forum was if it doesn’t matter whether or not a person is Catholic. Why should someone convert?

 

[cathdoki]

No you didn’t. I asked what the purpose of this forum was if it doesn’t matter whether or not a person is Catholic. Why should someone convert?

I’m sorry, you are correct. This forum is for discussion. If conversion follows then that is a benefit.

If you look at the rules, proselytizing is forbidden.

 

[Acts831]

So being Catholic is simply a “benefit”, and not a necessity? … You aren’t allowed to try and convert people to the Catholic faith on this forum?

Should we then think that conversion is superfluous? Does it matter whether or not a person believes that Jesus was speaking literally or symbolically in John 6, or that priests have authority to forgive sin through confession? I mean, if people can be saved without being Catholic, it’d be much easier not to convert!

 

[cathdoki]

So being Catholic is simply a “benefit”, and not a necessity? … You aren’t allowed to try and convert people to the Catholic faith on this forum?

Should we then think that conversion is superfluous? Does it matter whether or not a person believes that Jesus was speaking literally or symbolically in John 6, or that priests have authority to forgive sin through confession? I mean, if people can be saved without being Catholic, it’d be much easier not to convert!

I think I said that the CCC indicates that as Christians we can all be saved. Even if you are not full members of the CC. How else could the CCC have a paragraph that refers to muslims of possible inheretants of the Kingdom of God?

 

[William99]

No salvation outside the Church: for many centuries this was standard Church dogma.
It allowed Popes to be more powerful than Kings. Excommunication was a
sentence to eternal torture.
Fortunately, Catholics began to be ashamed of this inhuman belief, and so they
started to Interpret. Many examples of interpretation, some contradictory, can be
found in this thread. It is amazing - it is unreal - that people can send and
receive email about hell.
My own opinion, for what it’s worth, is this. According to the old Two Natures
doctrine Jesus was God, but also Man. As man he was a first century rabbi.
He often contradicted himself. He believed in the imminent end of the world
and that there was a place where the unrepentant would be tortured forever.
He was wrong twice.

 

[davidv]

No salvation outside the Church: for many centuries this was standard Church dogma.

As it is today.

It allowed Popes to be more powerful than Kings. Excommunication was a
sentence to eternal torture.

No true.

Fortunately, Catholics began to be ashamed of this inhuman belief, and so they
started to Interpret.

Not true.

Many examples of interpretation, some contradictory, can be
found in this thread. It is amazing - it is unreal - that people can send and
receive email about hell.

Maybe if the real dotrine was examined you wouldn’t present such a strawman.

My own opinion, for what it’s worth, is this. According to the old Two Natures
doctrine Jesus was God, but also Man. As man he was a first century rabbi.
He often contradicted himself.

Please show evidence of this.

He believed in the imminent end of the world
and that there was a place where the unrepentant would be tortured forever.
He was wrong twice.

Oh really?

 

[cathdoki]

Jesus never contradicted himself.

The Gospels compliment each other. To say that anything in the Gospels in contradictory is similar to this:

One time I say that my daughter has blue eyes.

Another time I say that my daughter has buck teeth.

Neither contradicts the other. They add to each other.

 

[mo3]

If it’s possible to be saved without being Catholic, what’s the purpose of this website/forum?

The purpose is to promote and clarify the true teachings of Jesus Christ, which is the same as what the Catholic Church teaches. This thread is helping to clarify what the Church means when it says: “No salvation outside the church.”

Why should someone convert to the Catholic Church and worry about mortal and venial sins, what the Pope teaches, etc., when it’s possible to find salvation without being Catholic?

The most important reason to convert to the Catholic Church should be because one wants to follow Jesus Christ more closely. It’s harder to find salvation outside the Church because as one gets farther away from Christ and His Church, one gets farther away from His true teachings.

Of course there are many Catholics that are farther away from Jesus than many Protestants. There are probably many Protestants that will be saved before many luke warm Catholics. Being Catholic is not a guarantee. However, if one truly follows what the Catholic teaches, then you are following the true teaching of Jesus Christ.

God bless.

 

[cathdoki]

The purpose is to promote and clarify the true teachings of Jesus Christ, which is the same as what the Catholic Church teaches. This thread is helping to clarify what the Church means when it says: “No salvation outside the church.”

The most important reason to convert to the Catholic Church should be because one wants to follow Jesus Christ more closely. It’s harder to find salvation outside the Church because as one gets farther away from Christ and His Church, one gets farther away from His true teachings.

Of course there are many Catholics that are farther away from Jesus than many Protestants. There are probably many Protestants that will be saved before many luke warm Catholics. Being Catholic is not a guarantee. However, if one truly follows what the Catholic teaches, then you are following the true teaching of Jesus Christ.

God bless.

Well put

 

[Prieldedi]

You assume that the oral tradition was not written down into scripture. That’s why you keep coming up with new dogmas or traditions. We are told to hold fast to the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints. Our faith was completely delivered to us. There is nothing new to add.

When you use something other than scripture to interpret scripture you corrupt its true meaning.

I’d like to point out a passage omitted when this point is discussed:

“Heaven and earth will pass away, BUT MY WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY”. (Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

From His own words we can tell without a doubt that Jesus unrecorded words are ALIVE today… “MY WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY”. Also, by the Gospel of John we know that not everything Jesus told and taught the Apostles was recorded in writing in the New Testament (John 20:30 and John 21:25). We know Jesus left no written word to the Apostles, we know all His words were spoken. He wrote something on the ground with his finger, but we don’t know what, when he said: “Let anyone among you who has no sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (John 8:7)

With this in mind I ask you, where can we find the unrecorded words of Jesus TODAY? Where are they NOW? I know no protestant can tell me where to find them, for they have no clue. However, we Catholics know the answer:

We can find the unrecorded words of Jesus in the Tradition of the Church. That’s why Tradition is also The Word of God: they are the unrecorded words of Jesus. When you reject Tradition, you reject the Word of God. So my advise is don’t throw away the Tradition of the Church so fast. In doing so you are actually throwing away God’s Word, not men’s words.

 

[mo3]

I’d like to point out a passage omitted when this point is discussed:

“Heaven and earth will pass away, BUT MY WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY”. (Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

From His own words we can tell without a doubt that Jesus unrecorded words are ALIVE today… “MY WORDS WILL NOT PASS AWAY”. Also, by the Gospel of John we know that not everything Jesus told and taught the Apostles was recorded in writing in the New Testament (John 20:30 and John 21:25). We know Jesus left no written word to the Apostles, we know all His words were spoken. He wrote something on the ground with his finger, but we don’t know what, when he said: “Let anyone among you who has no sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” (John 8:7)

With this in mind I ask you, where can we find the unrecorded words of Jesus TODAY? Where are they NOW? I know no protestant can tell me where to find them, for they have no clue. However, we Catholics know the answer:

We can find the unrecorded words of Jesus in the Tradition of the Church. That’s why Tradition is also The Word of God: they are the unrecorded words of Jesus. When you reject Tradition, you reject the Word of God. So my advise is don’t throw away the Tradition of the Church so fast. In doing so you are actually throwing away God’s Word, not men’s words.

WOW! This is explained very well. A great logical and Bibllical explaination.

 

[Prieldedi]

WOW! This is explained very well. A great logical and Bibllical explaination.

Thanks, mo3

I had posted this explanation also in another thread, “It’s NOT in the Bible, okay? (Part II)”. You can read it here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=408234&page=10

Look for Post #142. I was answering Post #35 on page 3.

Again, thanks for your kind words.

 

[Acts831]

I think I said that the CCC indicates that as Christians we can all be saved. Even if you are not full members of the CC. How else could the CCC have a paragraph that refers to muslims of possible inheretants of the Kingdom of God?

So why be a Catholic? Why should a person convert to the Catholic church if Christians can be saved without being full members of the Catholic church? You said above that conversion was a “benefit”… What does that mean? Does a person get bonus points for being Catholic, even though it doesn’t really matter?

I don’t know why the CCC has a paragraph about Muslims in it, I did not write it.

 

[Acts831]

The purpose is to promote and clarify the true teachings of Jesus Christ, which is the same as what the Catholic Church teaches. This thread is helping to clarify what the Church means when it says: “No salvation outside the church.”

so the phrase “no salvation outside the church” isn’t clear enough? It means that there really is salvation outside the church? That doesn’t make sense. Are the teachings of the church straightforward, or do they not mean what they say?

The most important reason to convert to the Catholic Church should be because one wants to follow Jesus Christ more closely. It’s harder to find salvation outside the Church because as one gets farther away from Christ and His Church, one gets farther away from His true teachings.

Of course there are many Catholics that are farther away from Jesus than many Protestants. There are probably many Protestants that will be saved before many luke warm Catholics. Being Catholic is not a guarantee. However, if one truly follows what the Catholic teaches, then you are following the true teaching of Jesus Christ.

God bless.

So if being Catholic is no guarantee, and there are “probably” many Protestants who will be saved… Why be Catholic? It’s hard to find the truth, but not impossible? And Protestants can be saved… What’s the point? Does truth matter? Either what the Catholic church teaches is true, and all else is false; or some other faith is true. Why believe in mortal and venial sin, the authority of the Pope, the Sacraments, etc. if I don’t have to believe them to be saved? Why should a person convert and subject themselves to worrying about sin and believing what the Pope teaches if they don’t have to in order to find salvation?

 

[OKAstro]

Wow - I am really confused reading this thread.

The CCC seems very clear to me that if you are a non-Catholic Christian who rejects the Catholic Church, you cannot be saved.

But after reading this thread, I don’t know what to believe. I see the point of several posters who ask if this is not what the CC teaches, then what’s the point of converting to the Catholic faith?

Can someone clarify … can a non-Catholic Christian who rejects the CC be saved? Yes or No