No Silence For This Lamb

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Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the World… the Lamb demands that we cannot be silent…for the Lamb asks us to go and make disciples of all Nations…

Hannibal Lecter refuses Clarice Starling’s pleas for the truth and forces her to recount her traumatic childhood. She tells him how she was orphaned and relocated to a relative’s farm in Montana, where she discovered a lamb slaughterhouse and even made a failed attempt to rescue one of them.

It is the truth that Christians must adhere to and acknowledge as setting forth a contrast to ill formed thinking in the secular world filled with political statements void of any scientific proof offered as fact that are in fact not fact.

Pornography, Lust, Prostitution and all sins against Chastity are to be shunned. There is nothing normal about these acts. Homosexuality is not innate, it is not immutable, it is spoken of in the secular world as…

Born that way…Essentialism, a falsehood

Social Constructionists would suggest there is nothing “real” about sexual orientation, except for a society’s construction, a falsehood.

There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Catholic. There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Christian. Homosexuals deny the profession of Faith, do not live a Sacramental life, cannot model Christ in their immorality and are open to pray and repent.

Homosexual/Gay parenting is normal, false, when the homosexual population has a higher incidence of suicide, depression, anxiety and all other sorts of maladies in particular noting no study posits that homosexual parenting equates to normal parenting of a father and mother.

Though the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) notes that a high percentage–perhaps as much as 75%–of GID children go on to identify as bisexual or gay, a causative relationship cannot be offered. We have no way of knowing, for example, why the other 25% self-identified as heterosexual; nor do we know the number of matched comparisons of heterosexuals who were classified as GID children, but later managed to make the transition to heterosexuality.

Those with GID are not normal, having a high percentage of co-morbidity associated with the desire, wish, preference to be other than what they were created to be. GID in essence is homosexuality at its core. I am what I am and that’s all that I am, says Popeye the sailor man. If wishing away the gay is taunted as folly then wishing away what you are created as, is as much folly.

When considering Lesbian and Gay these are homosexuals. When considering GID as noted above these too are homosexuals. Bisexuals are in limbo. Are they born that way, formed by society or are they Homosexuals in transition? A homosexual is a homosexual. The bottom line is Homosexuality by whatever name you call it is immoral and unnatural.

There is no unified school of thought in Psychiatry. Freud, Jung, Adler all dealt with homosexuality and all addressed the possibility of change. The present trend of the Political, not scientific, move of the American Psychiatric Association to attempt to normalize Homosexuality should be viewed in the history of dissent and departure within the history of Psychiatric thought. Fringe is the rule, as Freud and all others were at one time Fringe. Narth, therefore fits the paradigm of new thought within the history of Psychological thought. Anyone professing a unified form of thinking on Psychological thought concerning Homosexuality should be prepared to offer support based on Freud, Jung, Adler, Frankl or any other pioneer in the field and they cannot.

There are groups that deny the notion that Homosexuality is fixed, immutable and many studies and prominent thinkers have shown that homosexuals can and do change. These reports are available and prove the false teaching of the APA.

The number of “ No” votes-votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810 when compared to the Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854, should be viewed as those that believed homosexuality is a mental disorder did not vanish and go away and probably did not change their opinion and they have a right to a dissenting opinion, and point of view protected by law. There are 3,810 dissenting voices to the gay agenda within the ranks of the APA and their opinion and view can and should be honored.

The attempt to silence those that hold opposing views to the American Psychiatric Association as evidenced in California SB-1172 will fail probably as a result of the efforts of those that actually fight for HIV/AIDS and not realizing that there are at least two ethical standards that are violated by an attempt to silence. It is for this reason that we need to continue to educate the Christian world, lurkers and public at large.

To accept the APA position that the only counseling available for homosexuals is error.
Counseling to accept homosexuality coupled with counseling to subjugate Moral/Religious values is error and to do so means that Religion and revealed truths are under attack by the LGBT groups trying to force this type of counseling. To accept this view denies Church teachings and is error.

A good conscience requires lifelong formation. Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the World… we cannot be silent…for the Lamb asks us to go and make disciples of all Nations…we need to reach out to the immoral homosexuals, regardless of what they want others to believe they are, LGBT, and evangelize them to repent. There can be no Silence for this Lamb……

This is a battle and we need to put on the full armor of God….

NO COMMENTS ARE IN REFERENCE TO SAME SEX ATTRACTION, ALTHOUGH CHANGE IS POSSIBLE FOR SSA. HOMOSEXUALITY IS ADDRESSED AS DESIRES ACTED ON THAT ARE IMMORAL AND NOT NATURAL.
 
There is little chance of reliable scientific studies being conducted on the issue of homosexuality anymore, at least in the United States, as the issue has been thoroughly politicized and attached to an emotional social movement. Any actual attempts to study and examine homosexuality and its causes will likely have to come from other parts of the world. It is too inflammatory in the West.
 
There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Catholic. There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Christian. Homosexuals deny the profession of Faith, do not live a Sacramental life, cannot model Christ in their immorality and are open to pray and repent.
That is utter balderdash.

There are plenty of homosexual Catholics, indeed some of them are even good and holy priests (and I’ve met one or two, and another one of whom, now some-time deceased, is the subject of an attempt to raise a Cause for Sainthood).

Sweeping statements that homosexuals ‘deny the profession of faith’ are obnoxious, uncharitable and abhorrent and I would ask that you retract such a claim.
 
From the Catechism:
#2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
#2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
That is utter balderdash.

There are plenty of homosexual Catholics, indeed some of them are even good and holy priests (and I’ve met one or two, and another one of whom, now some-time deceased, is the subject of an attempt to raise a Cause for Sainthood).

Sweeping statements that homosexuals ‘deny the profession of faith’ are obnoxious, uncharitable and abhorrent and I would ask that you retract such a claim.
Dex,

We disagree…
NO COMMENTS ARE IN REFERENCE TO SAME SEX ATTRACTION, ALTHOUGH CHANGE IS POSSIBLE FOR SSA. HOMOSEXUALITY IS ADDRESSED AS DESIRES ACTED ON THAT ARE IMMORAL AND NOT NATURAL.
Prostitutes, Pornographers and Homosexuals abandoning their sin and living in Christ are a new creation and are no longer what they were…once Homosexual always a Homosexual, by no means…I am a Christian…not a Heterosexual Christian…having abandoned their immoral/unnatural acts they are just Christians…
 
From the Catechism:
Dex,
Prostitutes, Pornographers and Homosexuals abandoning their sin and living in Christ are a new creation and are no longer what they were…once Homosexual always a Homosexual, by no means…I am a Christian…not a Heterosexual Christian…having abandoned their immoral/unnatural acts they are just Christians…
I have no recollection of Augustine being forever noted as the Fornicating Christian…having abandoned his sinful life. Homosexuals that have abandoned their unnatural/immoral acts are Christians…
 
The Catechism refers to homosexual persons who are Christians.

If it’s good enough for the Catechism, it’s good enough for me and should be good enough for you.
 
The Catechism refers to homosexual persons who are Christians.

If it’s good enough for the Catechism, it’s good enough for me and should be good enough for you.
Dex,

I believe in the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church and that Church is Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox and Catholic Latin/East…at the present I do not have the Catechism of the Eastern Catholic however…

The Oriental Orthodox claim, as per the Coptic Patriarch…

orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/ShenoudaHomosexuality.php
I believe that homosexuality is against the Mysteries of the Church. What can we say about the renewal of life, the transfigured life in Christianity if such defilement exists within the Church? How can we claim to have been received into a new life in Christ, clothing ourselves in Christ from the baptismal font, and carrying the stain of a defiled, fallen life? If the new birth that we have received includes defilement amongst its members, what can be said of salvation itself? Baptism is called into question. Chrismation is called into question. Marriage is called into question. And further as we will see, Holy Orders is called into question. Persons who suffer from a homosexual orientation should be ashamed. If they truly know the meaning of spiritual life, they cannot confess or otherwise advocate a deviant lifestyle
What rights are there for homosexuals? The only right is to be led to repentance. To live in such defilement of the body, in such dishonor, in such abomination, while all the time asking for liberties the Church cannot grant, is unbelievable.
The Eastern Orthodox state as follows…

holy-trinity.org/morality/homosexuality.html
The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality should be treated by society as an immoral and dangerous perversion and by religion as a sinful failure. In both cases, correction is called for. Homosexuals should be accorded the confidential medical and psychiatric facilities by which they can be helped to restore themselves to a self-respecting sexual identity that belongs to them by God’s ordinance.
In full confidentiality, the Orthodox Church cares and provides pastorally for homosexuals in the belief that no sinner who has failed himself and God should be allowed to deteriorate morally and spiritually.
Psychiatric restoration, without religious direction and reconciliation with God, is bound to prove short lived.
These thoughts as you know are based on Scripture and Tradition and we accept that these Christians are united with the same deposit of Faith…I find these truths to be consistent with the Catechism you reflect on…and as you say…it is good enough for me…

We may disagree and that is your perogative…however Homosexuality as portrayed by the Secular world is an untidy lie compared to revealed truth and the truth will set us free…
 
You have quoted sites that are opinion or interpretation, not formal doctrine or catechismal in nature.

I related to you the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. If you wish to try and create differences between the Churches go ahead, but it doesn’t change the position of the Catholic Church to which I belong, that a person may be a homosexual and a Christian and that these two states are not mutually exclusive as you have suggested. That’s not my opinion or interpretation: it’s clearly there in the Catechism and needs no further discussion.
 
You have quoted sites that are opinion or interpretation, not formal doctrine or catechismal in nature.

I related to you the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church. If you wish to try and create differences between the Churches go ahead, but it doesn’t change the position of the Catholic Church to which I belong, that a person may be a homosexual and a Christian and that these two states are not mutually exclusive as you have suggested. That’s not my opinion or interpretation: it’s clearly there in the Catechism and needs no further discussion.
Dex,

Certainly you are not suggesting that

Homosexuality is innate, immutable and that there is no change possible for Homosexuals…because this is not true and there are reports, too many to count that have been published that document that truth…

You don’t accept the secular lie popularized by the APA and the likes of the Political/not scientific proposal of Essentialism…because this is not true…

Once a Homosexual gives up a life of unnatural acts and immorality…are you wanting me to believe that they are forever branded by these past acts? If you want me to believe this then we have to label all Christians…

St. Paul…Murdering Christian
Dorothy Day…Aborting Christian
St. Augustine…Fornicating Christian
any Alcoholic…Alcoholic Christian

In fact this false notion of once an Alcoholic always an alcoholic is a secular lie touted by the 12 step religion of AA and those that accept the disease model of addiction…there are many groups that don’t accept this lie and treat addiction as just a habit that can be resolved.

Here we have the reverse. The APA says that Homosexuality is not disordered and we know that this is a lie. They want people accepted for their unnatural/immoral acts…yet we know that there were and are dissenting points of view concerning the DSM/Homosexuality and while the secular world claims that normal is normal and the dissenting opinion says there is change possible. In other words the APA says you are what you are…accept it. Those that disagree say, no, you can change, change is possible, and there are many documented studies showing this. You are not forever branded by your past acts…

and if you have not examined the geneology of Jesus…there are all sorts of sinful people…

I accept and believe we are a new creation, not our former selves…I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would want to attach a label to someone that has changed their life…

We are slaves to sin

or

We are slaves to Christ

You cannot be both:)
 
Who mentioned the APA? Not me.

I only mentioned the Catechism, which talks about homosexual people who are Christians and how homosexual people are to be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity (whether or not they’re Christian).

If you don’t like the way the Catechism is expressed, then don’t take it up with me. I’m just trying to be faithful to it. You’re the one saying that a homosexual cannot be a Christian. That means you’re disagreeing with the Catechism.
 
Who mentioned the APA? Not me.

I only mentioned the Catechism, which talks about homosexual people who are Christians and how homosexual people are to be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity (whether or not they’re Christian).

If you don’t like the way the Catechism is expressed, then don’t take it up with me. I’m just trying to be faithful to it.
Dex,

The Church accepts all sinners, me, you and no one questions that…we just leave our sins at the door. We are not of the mindset of the Nathaniel Hawthorne “Scarlet Letter” where we live in a community forever branded by our sins…

Homoseuxals that are acting out their unnatural/Immoral lives are always welcome in the Church…in fact…these groups deny Homosexuals membership…
Membership denied
Adventist
Southern Baptist Convention
Christian Reformed Church in North America
Church of Nazarene
Jehovah Witness
Lutheran Church Missouri Synod
Old Order Amish
Assemblies of God
Church of God (Cleveland, Tenesee)
United Pentecostal Church International
Evangelical Presbyterian Church
Orthodox Presbyterian Church
Presbyterian Church in America
The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church does not deny membership, welcomes all and only asks that Homosexuals give up any notion that the unnatural acts and immorality of their past lives be left at the door…this is the same that is asked of me and you…knowing that Homosexuality is not immutable and Homosexuals can change.
 
Coptic,

I have been reading a book by Melinda Selmy Sexual Authenticity, and she makes some good points.
She still has SSA, but has been able to fall in love with her husband because of who he is to her and has six children and had a conversion to the Catholic faith. She still is trying everyday to what God calls her to do. Life is a constant struggle. She does call her self queer, SSA, and sometimes gay depending who she is trying to reach. She has been on the other side and knows if people talked down to her when she was in the life, she would have never listen.
She points out that putting someone that is homosexual on the defense all the time,
doesn’t bring them to Christ, but pushes them away. No matter how good our argument is against the homosexual persons that are living the life, we won’t make headway by constantly bashing it in to there faces. Let’s examine how we want to be Christlike in talking to the taxpayers, sinners and the like, if we sound like we are constantly raising ourselves up like the Pharisee, we get no where. Sometimes I wonder if that isn’t what I have been doing, even though I have been trying to be faithful and do love God, do I sound that way? Your dialog with someone who is calling themselves homosexual Catholic isn’t going to make any headway unless it’s more compassionate of what they are trying to convey. I think they know that being a Catholic and living a homosexual life with someone is against the teachings of the church, if not, then you shake off your sandals and go to the next one… It’s a useless debate. Helping them love Christ in truth will lead them to the truth sooner or later. Let’s pray for that instead of them learning statistics because it doesn’t matter when they have blocked you out.
Just a thought.🙂
God bless
 
Dex,

The Church accepts all sinners, me, you and no one questions that…we just leave our sins at the door. We are not of the mindset of the Nathaniel Hawthorne “Scarlet Letter” where we live in a community forever branded by our sins…

Homoseuxals that are acting out their unnatural/Immoral lives are always welcome in the Church…in fact…these groups deny Homosexuals membership…

The One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church does not deny membership, welcomes all and only asks that Homosexuals give up any notion that the unnatural acts and immorality of their past lives be left at the door…this is the same that is asked of me and you…knowing that Homosexuality is not immutable and Homosexuals can change.
I refer you again to the CCC:
#2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
#2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
No mention of mutability or immutability there. Just mention of persons who are homosexual and, if they are also Christian, how to live as good Christians with their condition.

It seems you don’t want to accept the Catechism.
 
Coptic,

I have been reading a book by Melinda Selmy Sexual Authenticity, and she makes some good points.
She still has SSA, but has been able to fall in love with her husband because of who he is to her and has six children and had a conversion to the Catholic faith. She still is trying everyday to what God calls her to do. Life is a constant struggle. She does call her self queer, SSA, and sometimes gay depending who she is trying to reach. She has been on the other side and knows if people talked down to her when she was in the life, she would have never listen.
She points out that putting someone that is homosexual on the defense all the time,
doesn’t bring them to Christ, but pushes them away. No matter how good our argument is against the homosexual persons that are living the life, we won’t make headway by constantly bashing it in to there faces. Let’s examine how we want to be Christlike in talking to the taxpayers, sinners and the like, if we sound like we are constantly raising ourselves up like the Pharisee, we get no where. Sometimes I wonder if that isn’t what I have been doing, even though I have been trying to be faithful and do love God, do I sound that way? Your dialog with someone who is calling themselves homosexual Catholic isn’t going to make any headway unless it’s more compassionate of what they are trying to convey. I think they know that being a Catholic and living a homosexual life with someone is against the teachings of the church, if not, then you shake off your sandals and go to the next one… It’s a useless debate. Helping them love Christ in truth will lead them to the truth sooner or later. Let’s pray for that instead of them learning statistics because it doesn’t matter when they have blocked you out.
Just a thought.🙂
God bless
Dex,

Here is another thought. St. Augustine, confessions, make a great read for all sinners of whatever stripe. Referring to yourself with labels to me serves no purpose other than to signify the damage that has been done in the secular world with all the lies and propaganda of untruths such as…

The only counseling for Homosexuals is acceptance
Homosexuals are a variant of normal because the DSM says so

This propaganda denies twhat the detractors that voted no believed in and still believe in and it does a diservice to the truth.
 
I refer you again to the CCC:

No mention of mutability or immutability there. Just mention of persons who are homosexual and, if they are also Christian, how to live as good Christians with their condition.

It seems you don’t want to accept the Catechism.
Dex,

and my Catechism, the USA Catechism for Adults…I prefer the audio says this…
The Catholic Church retains the structures of Episcopal leadership and sacramental life that are the gift of Christ to his Church (cf. CCC, nos. 765, 766) and that date back to apostolic times. At the same time, the Catholic Church recognizes that the Holy Spirit uses other churches and ecclesial communities “as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church” (CCC, no. 819; LG, no. 8). Depending on what and how much of the elements of sanctification and truth (UR, no. 3) these communities have retained, they have a certain though imperfect com¬munion with the Catholic Church. There are also real differences. In some cases “there are very weighty differences not only of a historical, sociological, psychological and cultural character, but especially in the interpretation of revealed truth” (UR, no. 19). (The word church applies to those bodies of Christians who have a valid Episcopal leadership or hierarchy, while the phrase ecclesial communities refers to those bodies of Christians that do not have an apostolic hierarchy.)
so the Oriental Orthodox and Eastern Orthodox have a valid Episcopal leadership and derive from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ entrusted to the Catholic Church…when they say…

orthodoxytoday.org/articl…osexuality.php
I believe that homosexuality is against the Mysteries of the Church. What can we say about the renewal of life, the transfigured life in Christianity if such defilement exists within the Church? How can we claim to have been received into a new life in Christ, clothing ourselves in Christ from the baptismal font, and carrying the stain of a defiled, fallen life? If the new birth that we have received includes defilement amongst its members, what can be said of salvation itself? Baptism is called into question. Chrismation is called into question. Marriage is called into question. And further as we will see, Holy Orders is called into question. Persons who suffer from a homosexual orientation should be ashamed. If they truly know the meaning of spiritual life, they cannot confess or otherwise advocate a deviant lifestyle
What rights are there for homosexuals? The only right is to be led to repentance. To live in such defilement of the body, in such dishonor, in such abomination, while all the time asking for liberties the Church cannot grant, is unbelievable.
holy-trinity.org/morality/homosexuality.html
The Orthodox Church believes that homosexuality should be treated by society as an immoral and dangerous perversion and by religion as a sinful failure. In both cases, correction is called for. Homosexuals should be accorded the confidential medical and psychiatric facilities by which they can be helped to restore themselves to a self-respecting sexual identity that belongs to them by God’s ordinance.
In full confidentiality, the Orthodox Church cares and provides pastorally for homosexuals in the belief that no sinner who has failed himself and God should be allowed to deteriorate morally and spiritually.
Psychiatric restoration, without religious direction and reconciliation with God, is bound to prove short lived.
I find these statements to have the same elements of truth that is registered in the Universal Catechism you propose…I am all for revealed truths…amen…my brother…🙂
 
Hmm what was that?
A bunch of dirty lies, conspiracy theories, anti-scientific nonsense and mad ravings from mr Coptic. As usual, nothing interesting 😉
 
I don’t really know why I’m posting here even more than usual, really, as this ‘Moral Theology’ section seems to be all about Catholic stuff that I shouldn’t really play a part in, but whatever. I’m a rebel.

I guess I agree with you, when I could understand what you were saying. I am a tad slow, but whenever you make a thread the stuff you talk about seems a little disorganised, if you don’t mind me saying so. But you seem to be claiming that homosexuals can probably change if they so desire, and should be allowed to pursue that desire. I agree. If you’re stating that people with homosexual desires can pursue heterosexual relationships and not cure their homosexuality, I’d feel even more inclined to agree, though I would question whether those people were living fulfilling lives. I don’t see the issue with the existence of counselling to make people comfortable with their homosexuality, either, and to ban or oppose it is not really any better than LGBT groups attempting to ban conversion therapy. I don’t really know what you’re on about during the first half of your post, but that doesn’t matter. I’m an idiot. I’d disagree that a homosexual is merely someone who engages in homosexual behaviour, though. It’s normally used to refer to someone with a ‘homosexual orientation’ which would be someone with a certain psychological/biological disposition which makes them attracted to members of the same-sex.

There is one question, however, that I’d really like to ask, and it’s something I’ve never been able to get an answer for. Why do you have such an interest in homosexuality? Do you have a homosexual relative or something?

I’m not trying to imply anything (I know some people may ask similar questions in order to imply that you’re a closeted homosexual or something) but I am genuinely intrigued as to why so many of your threads are about homosexuality.
 
Grace & Peace!
Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the World… the Lamb demands that we cannot be silent…for the Lamb asks us to go and make disciples of all Nations…

Hannibal Lecter refuses Clarice Starling’s pleas for the truth and forces her to recount her traumatic childhood. She tells him how she was orphaned and relocated to a relative’s farm in Montana, where she discovered a lamb slaughterhouse and even made a failed attempt to rescue one of them.

…]

There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Catholic. There is no such thing as a Homosexual/Gay Christian. Homosexuals deny the profession of Faith, do not live a Sacramental life, cannot model Christ in their immorality and are open to pray and repent.

…]There can be no Silence for this Lamb……

This is a battle and we need to put on the full armor of God….

NO COMMENTS ARE IN REFERENCE TO SAME SEX ATTRACTION, ALTHOUGH CHANGE IS POSSIBLE FOR SSA. HOMOSEXUALITY IS ADDRESSED AS DESIRES ACTED ON THAT ARE IMMORAL AND NOT NATURAL.
A few things:
  1. This original post represents the kookiest film review I think I’ve ever read.
  2. Coptic, you continue to want to redefine the word “homosexual” to refer only to same-sex attracted people who are sexually active. You can make the claim that that’s how the catechism understands the word, but you’d be wrong–as Dex pointed out, the catechism refers to “homosexual persons” in a context which suggests that both sexually active and non-sexually active same-sex attracted people are called to chastity. This is in keeping with the generally accepted meaning of the word: that it refers to people (regardless of their sexual activity) who are attracted to members of the same-sex. Both a homosexual Christian and, specifically, a homosexual Catholic are both possibilities according to the catechism–whether or not you can get beyond your own ideological preconceptions and accept that remains to be seen.
  3. On a related note, you provide a caveat intended to assure those who are same-sex attracted and not sexually active that you’re not talking about them when you use the word “homosexual.” Then you reference the teachings of other apostolic churches and their leaders that would consider your caveat to be making a worthless and sin-approving distinction. The Eastern and Coptic Churches have only recently begun thinking about making the distinction the RCC makes and which you attempt to make here–and the documents you quote (from two to three decades ago) certainly would not even countenance such a distinction.
So in the end, your message sounds like this: “Same-sex attracted folks are okay because they’re not homosexuals (!?!), but really they’re not okay because other apostolic churches clearly think they are homosexuals and while I agree with making a distinction between same-sex attracted folks and homosexuals, I also like to agree with the other apostolic churches because the catechism considers them valid churches.” Consequently, it’s hard to know what it is you’re actually saying beyond all of the pedantry, and the ideological gobbledy-gook which has little to do with Catholic orthodoxy and more to do with whatever psycho-social/political ax you have to grind.

Under the Mercy,
Mark

All is Grace and Mercy! Deo Gratias!
 
I refer you again to the CCC:

No mention of mutability or immutability there. Just mention of persons who are homosexual and, if they are also Christian, how to live as good Christians with their condition.

It seems you don’t want to accept the Catechism.
Dex,

I appreciate your fidelity and love for the Catechism. I have listened to it over a dozen times and presently I am studying Life in Christ…since you are faithful to the teachings of the Catechism…you should have no problem with this…

Homosexual tendencies come from false education, lack of normal sexual development, from habit, bad example, may be transitory and not incurable. There are some that believe that this tendency is innate and therefore justifies their acts. There is no possibility to give any moral justification to homosexual acts on any grounds because they are condemned in Scripture.

The Doom of Sodom Genesis 19:1-29

Romans 1:24-27
24
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
**1Cor 6:10 **
nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1Timothy 1:10
8But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, 9realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
 
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