No such thing as a Catholic convert?

[CollegeKid]

If I were you, I would also remind these Protestants that Catholics aren’t forbidden to use any personal judgement on matters of faith, for example when reading Scripture. What we are forbidden to do is embrace a teaching about a Scriptural passage that is contradictory to the official Catholic teaching on the passage, if the Church has one.

 

[Philthy]

Carly:

…Lately, I have seen more and more people use this line of reasoning.
How can we respond to this stuff?
In Christ,
Carly

I am sure you have more important things to do than respond to this sort of stuff - so my advice is don’t bother responding! But I will give you my insight on the actual argument.

Carly:

…Protestant apologists make the claim that one can’t really be a Catholic convert because in order to convert to Catholicism one has to use the Protestant method of personal interpretation.

Well, the MEANS of converting are irrelevent, it is the END which defines someone as a “Catholic” convert. Self-edited uncharitable remark. It does not matter HOW you decide, it matters WHAT you decide. And when you decide to, and actually do become Catholic you are a convert TO Catholicism, which is commonly called a Catholic convert.

Carly:

Their contention is that to be really Catholic, you have to be born Catholic, since converts all used Protestant methodology to arrive at their acceptance of Catholicism.

Really? When did Protestants claim the patent on human reason and the movings of the holy spirit? People have been converting to Catholicism for well over a thousand years before anyone ever heard the term Protestant. This is just too silly to even address - I stick by my first recommendation - ignore them.

 

[CollegeKid]

Ask these protestant detractors something else: what is the status of a person who is born Catholic, leaves the Church for some other faith like protestantism or no faith at all, and then becomes convinced of the claims of the Catholic Church and returns? In other words, is a revert to Catholicism not really a Catholic either, since they probably used some degree of “personal judgement” in deciding to return?

 

[bekalc]

I think thats a bit ridiculous. I would say that the Catholic Church does believe that people are given free will to decide if the faith is true or isn’t true.

But there is a big difference between a Catholic convert looking at all the doctrinal differences and realizing how hard it is to interepert Scripture and humbly realizing that well He shouldn’t be interperting it privately…And wanting to be a part of a church that feels that way.

And a Protestant who isn’t bothered at all about the Bible’s Truth claims, and or the fact that people use the same methods to disagree with him. I would say that the what really happened was that the Convert used the Protestant methods of Scripture alone to disprove the Protestant theory.

One of my friends said so you don’t like Scripture alone. But what about the Fathers you read the Fathers alone. And what I said yes I did, I approached the Fathers alone. And it was at that point noticing the different interpertations of the fathers, that I realized I shouldn’t be excercising private judgement. So, no I don’t agree with private judgment of the Fathers either! I don’t think they knew how to respond there.

 

[CollegeKid]

Long story short: this protestant argument has more holes than swiss cheese.

 

[johnshelby]

the reverse could also be said…

a Protestant who has not made an interpretive
decision on every verse of the bible, but chooses
to attend a Protestant church which has definite
interpretations of those verses is behaving
the way they ‘characterize’ Catholics as behaving,
by trusting in others to make those interpretations
for them…

and, they all do it to some extent…

 

[bekalc]

You know what is ridiculous… For a Protestant to really join any Church denomination. They have to choose what denomination is interperting Scripture correctly…Try being a minister and not agreeing with the main points of any denomination (Unless its very liberal) Or you can be a non denominational pastor and well make a church based on your interperations. But I just thought I’d bring that out there… No Protestant really and truly interperts Scripture just by himself, and no major denomination really allows it…

 

[Leon_Miguel]

Carly:

claim that converting to Catholicism is an oxymoron because they say you’ve used personal judgement to decide that personal judgement is not a correct method of arriving at a doctrine.

If protestant A converts to Catholicism by using this method then could protestant B honestly and logically critique his decision?

Protestant A has found his personal interpretation of doctrines to be in agreement with those held by the Catholic Church and if Protestant B wants to disagree than that is just a personal difference according to his logic.

 

[puzzleannie]

Carly:

Previously, I had heard a few anti-Catholic Protestant apologists make the claim that one can’t really be a Catholic convert because in order to convert to Catholicism one has to use the Protestant method of personal interpretation.

I have no idea what that means or the logic behind it. to somehow imply that only cradle Catholics are “real” Catholics is to deny our baptistmal calling to evangelize and to denigrate the entire RCIA process.

Properly, the word convert does not apply to a committed Christian who seeks full communion with the Catholic Church. A true convert is an unbaptized person who responds to the initial proclamation of the Gospel and whose journey to initiation in the Catholic Church involves a real “turn around” in their mode of living.

 

[Liberian]

Carly,

I think the problem is that this is one more Protestant distortion of Catholic teaching. The Catholic Church has no objection to the faithful using their well-formed consciences and their well-educated brains to figure things out. The problem comes when an individual puts two and two together and gets five, and then insists he’s right even when the Church comes and tells him of his error.

So the supposed oxymoron is a non-issue. Protestant converts to Catholicism have used their consciences and brains to figure out that the Catholic Church is the One True Church. The Church has no problem since this is a correct conclusion.

• Liberian

 

[Prometheum_x]

This Protestant argument is largely a reaction to hearing a common argument coming from Catholic Apologists:

“Protestants are on shaky ground because they use private interpretation to figure things out. We, however, have the magisterium, tradition, etc.”

They object and say, “Wait, if it’s somehow bad for us to use private interpretation, why is it ok for Catholics to use it? After all, at some point, the Catholic convert had to use his own private judgment to determine that he should in fact listen to the teaching authority of the Church, and that the Holy Spirit is in fact leading him in this direction. He has to use private judgment to determine whether his current priest is a liturgical nutcase or heretic, and he has to use private judgment to determine how to apply the teachings of the Church to his own life.”

It’s a fair question for them to ask, because they really do get criticized by Catholics for their own use of private judgment.

 

[bekalc]

I would say that its because the Bible never says that one shouldn’t use private interperations to determine if the CHurch’s teachings are True or False. Everyone goes through a period of investigating.

But its one thing for that to happen when someone is converting/new.

It’s a whole nother ball of wax, when private interperation is used to run a church/ keep a CHurch together.

 

[petra]

Carly:

Okay, the line of reasoning goes that Catholics object to the individual interpretation and discernment that Protestants use to arrive at their doctrinal position. Catholics submit to the authority of the Magisterium in doctrinal matters. But in order to decide to become Catholic you have to use the Protestant method of individual interpretation to decide that the Magisterium does in fact have the authority to teach.

Therefore these Protestant apologists (usually Eric Svendson) claim that converting to Catholicism is an oxymoron because they say you’ve used personal judgement to decide that personal judgement is not a correct method of arriving at a doctrine.

I don’t have time to read to the end of the thread, so hopefully I’m not duplicating anyone else. But I think the answer is simple. The Catholic Church does not say that we cannot think for ourselves or that the Holy Spirit cannot guide us or illuminate the scriptures for us. The Church simply says she is the final authority, and if our interpretation is in opposition, we need to defer to the Church’s interpretation. But this really only applies to people that are already Catholic. The Church doesn’t even claim to have authority over non-Catholics.

So this supposed oxymoron is just silly and doesn’t hold any water. There is no need for those Protestant apologists to feel triumphant or get all puffed up.

 

[Liberian]

Prometheum_x:

This Protestant argument is largely a reaction to hearing a common argument coming from Catholic Apologists:

“Protestants are on shaky ground because they use private interpretation to figure things out. We, however, have the magisterium, tradition, etc.”

…

It’s a fair question for them to ask, because they really do get criticized by Catholics for their own use of private judgment.

Prometheum X,

Possibly we as Catholic apologists should be more precise in our terminology, then. Perhaps “Protestants are on shaky ground because they use private interpretation to figure things out without consulting the Magisterium for confirmation.” But the fact remains that it is a distortion of Catholic teaching to say that we are supposed to turn our brains off, and this distortion is at the root of this Protestant argument.

• Liberian