No Teacher Is Needed

[The_Wizard]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

 

[aragonjohn1]

Those, therefore, who desert the preaching of the Church, call in question the knowledge of the holy presbyters, not taking into consideration of how much greater consequence is a religious man, even in a private station, than a blasphemous and impudent sophist. Now, such are all the heretics, and those who imagine that they have hit upon something more beyond the truth, so that by following those things already mentioned, proceeding on their way variously, in harmoniously, and foolishly, not keeping always to the same opinions with regard to the same things, as blind men are led by the blind, they shall deservedly fall into the ditch of ignorance lying in their path, ever seeking and never finding out the truth. It behooves us, therefore, to avoid their doctrines, and to take careful heed lest we suffer any injury from them; but to flee to the Church, and be brought up in her bosom, and be nourished with the Lord’s Scriptures." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 5,20:2 (A.D. 180).

"Since this is the case, in order that the truth may be adjudged to belong to us, “as many as walk according to the rule,” which the church has handed down from the apostles, the apostles from Christ, and Christ from God, the reason of our position is clear, when it determines that heretics ought not to be allowed to challenge an appeal to the Scriptures, since we, without the Scriptures, prove that they have nothing to do with the Scriptures. For as they are heretics, they cannot be true Christians, because it is not from Christ that they get that which they pursue of their own mere choice, and from the pursuit incur and admit the name of heretics. Thus, not being Christians, they have acquired no right to the Christian Scriptures; and it may be very fairly said to them, “Who are you? When and whence did you come?” Tertullian, Prescription against the Heretics, 37 (A.D. 200).

“Now the cause, in all the points previously enumerated, of the false opinions, and of the impious statements or ignorant assertions about God, appears to be nothing else than the not understanding the Scripture according to its spiritual meaning, but the interpretation of it agreeably to the mere letter. And therefore, to those who believe that the sacred books are not the compositions of men, but that they were composed by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, agreeably to the will of the Father of all things through Jesus Christ, and that they have come down to us, we must point out the ways (of interpreting them) which appear (correct) to us, who cling to the standard of the heavenly Church of Jesus Christ according to the succession of the apostles.” Origen, First Principles, 4,1:9 (A.D. 230).

“The spouse of Christ cannot be adulterous; she is uncorrupted and pure. She knows one home; she guards with chaste modesty the sanctity of one couch. She keeps us for God. She appoints the sons whom she has born for the kingdom. Whoever is separated from the Church and is joined to an adulteress, is separated from the promises of the Church; nor can he who forsakes the Church of Christ attain to the rewards of Christ. He is a stranger; he is profane; he is an enemy. He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother. If any one could escape who was outside the ark of Noah, then he also may escape who shall be outside of the Church. The Lord warns, saying, ‘He who is not with me is against me, and he who gathereth not with me scattereth.’” Cyprian, Unity of the Church, 6 (A.D. 256).

“But in learning the Faith and in professing it, acquire and keep that only, which is now delivered to thee by the Church, and which has been built up strongly out of all the Scriptures…Take heed then, brethren, and hold fast the traditions which ye now receive, and write them and the table of your heart.” Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lectures, 5:12 (A.D. 350).

“[T]hey who are placed without the Church, cannot attain to any understanding of the divine word. For the ship exhibits a type of Church, the word of life placed and preached within which, they who are without, and lie near like barren and useless sands, cannot understand.” Hilary of Poitiers, On Matthew, Homily 13:1 (A.D. 355).

if this a’int helpin i suggest

• philvaz.com/apologetics/p101.htm
• philvaz.com/apologetics/num1.htm
• scripturecatholic.com/scripture_alone.html#tradition-I
• philvaz.com/apologetics/apolog.htm

hope y’all of this helps :bounce:

Shalom
God Bless

 

[Erich]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

No.

Another poster, on another thread, put it this way:

Once again, I find an imponderable quote from you that seems to be outside of the OP’s question. However, since you insist, let me give you the FULL quotation of this section from 1John, so you may understand one more testimony to Catholic Tradition, rather than simply plucking verses which suit you from a Bible not yet completed in John’s time. The operative phase is highlighted in red, so you don’t miss it:

24Let what you heard from the beginning remain in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, then you will remain in the Son and in the Father.* 25And this is the promise that he made us: eternal life. 26I write you these things about those who would deceive you. 27As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.
This is from the NAB, Revised Edition, available at “USCCB Bible” on the internet.

You can see, when viewing the entire quotation, that if you have heard the Truth (not seen it in a book), and retain that teaching that brought you to anointing (Baptism, Confirmation), and that anointing (sanctifying grace) remains in you, you do not need anyone to teach you; i.e., you already have sanctifying grace, and that is sufficient for salvation. So, he says, remain in grace, and, just as it taught you by what you heard to bring you to this anointing, it will cause you to remain in Him (Jesus).

I really hate to break it to you this way, but belief in the Bible, even dedicated belief in its words as writen in various forms, does NOT bring salvation. Belief in Jesus the Christ, as G-d-man, brings Baptism, and with it, sanctifying grace…regardless of what version of the Bible you read, regardless of how many books your Bible contains, regardless of a Pope’s decree, regardless of learned rabbis selection of Hebrew Scriptures, only, for their Testament.

So, for all practical purposes towards obtaining salvation, the Bible is irrelevant. If you say “no”, you deny entry to Heaven for all those who died for and in the Faith (some in a most violent manner), including Peter and Paul, and yes, even John, whom you quote. Remember, they died before the “Bible” was constructed and canonized.

Any questions? Another quotation, perhaps?

 

[JRKH]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

I’m curious…When Paul wrote to the Corinthians, the Ephesians, the Romans, the Thessalonians etc, was he teaching them? Did these communities not have the Spirit?

What about when Paul wrote to these communities to correct sin and error and division that he found in them…How could these sins, these errors exist in a community which had received the anointing and and so…according to your friend…did not need anyone to teach them?

In Acts…Why was there such discord among believers over the matter of circumcision if these believers all had the Spirit and did not need teachers? Note that the discord was of such intensity that not even the great apostle Paul could resolve the matter.

The Spirit DOES teach us in our heart. This is quite true.
BUT…Alone we are also much more vulnerable to error…even in understanding Scripture.

Jesus founded a community and in Mt 18:15-18 he tells us to take obstinate disagreements to “The Church” - the community…Why?
Because there is less likelihood of error in a group than by one’s self. Each member brings something valid and good to the table, catches problems in another’s argument or position…And by prayerful council the best answer is arrived at.

I hope these thoughts are of some help to you.

Peace
James

 

[Mystophilus]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

No, because such a claim would be in direct contradiction not only to its immediate Scriptural context (John himself goes on to teach his audience in the succeeding passages of that same letter) but also to the wider Scriptural context of the New Testament, in which the teaching of people who are already believers is repeatedly commanded:

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
What he appears to have been addressing was an early Church heresy, a version a Gnosticism, in which people were told that only
Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.
1Ti 4:11 These things command and teach.
2Ti 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
2Ti 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

However, the idea that one needs no teacher, apart from having an obvious lure to human pride, persists within Protestantism in particular because of this:
VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all: yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.

Talk to your friend about the verses above, rather than this, and you might be able to get him to see that learning from others is actually a good thing.

 

[Gorgias]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

Umm… in this part of the chapter, John is warning against the teachings of early Gnostics; they began in the Church, but later left. Their claim was that not all Christians would be saved; rather, it was necessary to have “hidden knowledge” (i.e., “gnosis”) in order to be saved. John is telling them that teachings of hidden knowledge are not necessary for salvation: rather, the anointing in the Holy Spirit is what is required. He’s telling them to avoid these teachings, and rely instead on the grace that they received in the Spirit. It goes without saying that early Christians would still listen to their teachers within the Church!

 

[jcrichton]

“As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit–just as it has taught you, remain in him.” 1 John 2:27

I was having a discussion with a friend and I suggected he read Scot Hahn’s book Rome, Sweet Home. He told be that since he was “born again” and had received the Holy Spirit he does need anyone to teach him anything and he quoted this verse. So, my question is does this verse REALLY mean that “you do not need anyone to teach you”?

…only two problems with that theology:

1. It makes Christ’s institution of the Church superfluous, and
2. it forces Scriptures to make Christ’s Incarnation superfluous…

Maran tha!

Angel

 

[po18guy]

From the Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 27. You have no need, &c. You want not to be taught by any of these men, who, under pretence of imparting more knowledge to you, seek to seduce you, (ver. 26) since you are sufficiently taught already, and have all knowledge and grace in the Church, with the unction of the Holy Ghost, which these new teachers have no share in. (Challoner) — His unction teacheth you concerning all things. Unction here signifies the doctrine which they received together with the Holy Ghost or Spirit of God; in which he exhorts them to remain, as being sufficient for their instruction, and to make them avoid the new teachers of false doctrine. (Witham)

 

[Link0126]

Umm… in this part of the chapter, John is warning against the teachings of early Gnostics; they began in the Church, but later left. Their claim was that not all Christians would be saved; rather, it was necessary to have “hidden knowledge” (i.e., “gnosis”) in order to be saved. John is telling them that teachings of hidden knowledge are not necessary for salvation: rather, the anointing in the Holy Spirit is what is required. He’s telling them to avoid these teachings, and rely instead on the grace that they received in the Spirit. It goes without saying that early Christians would still listen to their teachers within the Church!

I’d go with this one. The thing we need to remember is that these letters in the Bible were written for certain reasons and b/c of certain situations. They were not written specifically with us in mind 2,000 years later and beyond. It is true though, you don’t need anyone to teach you anything if you have sanctifying grace. Just abound in that grace til your last day and you are good. No amount of education will change that. However, listening to the Church can help us do just that.

 

[jcrichton]

I’d go with this one. The thing we need to remember is that these letters in the Bible were written for certain reasons and b/c of certain situations. They were not written specifically with us in mind 2,000 years later and beyond. It is true though, you don’t need anyone to teach you anything if you have sanctifying grace. Just abound in that grace til your last day and you are good. No amount of education will change that. However, listening to the Church can help us do just that.

…the lone-wolf system does tend to make a mess of thngs as every single person can claim to be lead by the Spirit and that Sactifying Grace has made the various revelations with which he/she is guided… hence that various theologies and the rampant schism of Christ’s Body into the myriads of faith-based groups that are convicted (self) of living by Faith… wise enough, Jesus founded a Community that is the:

15 but in case I should be delayed, I want you to know how people ought to behave in God’s household – that is, in the Church of the living God, pillar and support of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:15)

Maran atha!

Angel