No, you can't call God mother!

[GKC]

Another reference is Deuteronomy 32:18:

But that is another example of the idea that God has motherly qualities, but nowhere in the Bible is God called “Mother” or are we told to call God “Mother.”

Also:
Doesn’t C.S. Lewis reflect somewhere on the idea that God is masculine, and in respect to God we are all feminine? That is, we receive what God gives us. This is one reason the Church is “the Bride of Christ” and “She.” I believe that Lewis’s idea was that human sexuality (and all creaturely sexuality) was but a pale, partial reflection of the truth of gender, which is why in most languages–Latin and the Romance languages, Greek, and Hebrew certainly–nouns that have nothing to do with sexuality (a table, a book) still have genders.

In a couple of places:

“What is above and beyond all things is so masculine that we are all feminine in relation to it”

THAT HIDEOUS STRENGTH, Chap 14, sec. V, p.374, 1st American ed.

and

“Everyone must sometimes have wondered why in nearly all tongues certain inanimate objects are masculine and others feminine. What is masculine about a mountain or feminine about certain trees? Ransom has cured me of believing that this is a purely morphological phenomenon, depending on the form of the word. Still less is gender an imaginative extension of sex. Our ancestors did not make mountains masculine because they projected male characteristics into them. The real process is the reverse. Gender is a reality, and a more fundamental reality than sex. Sex is, in fact, merely the adaptation to organic life of a fundamental polarity which divides all created beings. Female sex is simply one of the things that have feminine gender; there are many others, and Masculine and Feminine meet us on planes of reality where male and female would be simply meaningless. Masculine is not attenuated male, nor feminine attenuated female. On the contrary, the male and female of organic creatures are rather blurred reflections of masculine and feminine. Their reproductive functions, their differences in strength and size, party exhibit, but partly also confuse and misrepresent, the real polarity”.

PERELANDRA, chap. 16, p.214, 1st American ed.

And others.

 

[GKC]

There have been many gods in the last several thousand years…some male, some female, some both, some neither.
If one Christian denomination embraces the “neither male nor female” line in the bible seriously, then they should be able to refer to God as male/female.
They have good reasons for doing such.

Obviously, what the Anglicans do does not interfere with the set up of the Catholic religion.

.

It can raise Old Ned with other Anglicans, though. And Anglicans tend to think of themselves (let’s not over generalize, of course), as part of the Catholic …not religion, but Church. Not in communion with Rome, to be sure.

IOW, if the RCs get their knockers in a knot over this, so do many Anglicans.

 

[GKC]

Why does he call them “feminist Anglicans”?
They are not a specifically “feminist” group proposing this, as far as I can see. Is it?

It’s apparently a group of male priests who have begun making the changes in language.
Are these male priests part of a “feminist” group?

.

Nah, it’s something else.

dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3106661/DAMIAN-THOMPSON-No-God-ISN-T-male-calling-unholy-twaddle.html#ixzz3btamuTeW

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Do any of the advocates for calling God a “mother” attempt to ground this within the Christian tradition itself? Is there any appeal to the past, examples of God being called a Mother throughout the history of the church (liturgically) that they would argue that should be in the liturgy? If not (and I do believe there is no such basis) have they not just revealed themselves as being more concerned for a modernist attempt to invite and be inclusive, to avoid being perceived as “patriarchal and anti woman?”

Also were traditional Anglicans ever promised that the ordination of women Bishops would in no way change the church from what it had been before? Would this not count as a large change if they went through with it?

 

[GKC]

Do any of the advocates for calling God a “mother” attempt to ground this within the Christian tradition itself? Is there any appeal to the past, examples of God being called a Mother throughout the history of the church (liturgically) that they would argue that should be in the liturgy? If not (and I do believe there is no such basis) have they not just revealed themselves as being more concerned for a modernist attempt to invite and be inclusive, to avoid being perceived as “patriarchal and anti woman?”

Also were traditional Anglicans ever promised that the ordination of women Bishops would in no way change the church from what it had been before? Would this not count as a large change if they went through with it?

Generally, traditional Anglicans in the CoE were promised there would be a safe accommodation and haven, per the old Flying Bishops, provided for those who could not accept female bishops.

Of course, that same was said, and attempted for a while, with respect to females in clerical garments, generally. Eventually, the steamrollers will crush the recalcitrants, of course.

 

[Ignatius]

It isn’t as if God has a gender, so any language we use to refer to Him or describe Him puts limitations on Him that don’t actually exist.

From the article:

1. Jesus tells us to call God “Father” - The really big reason comes first. Jesus himself tells us to call God Father. Of course the feminist activists don’t take something like the Bible or even the words of Jesus seriously.
2. The Old Testament refers to God as Father - From paragraph 238 of the Catechism: Many religions invoke God as “Father”. The deity is often considered the “father of gods and of men”. In Israel, God is called “Father” inasmuch as he is Creator of the world. Even more, God is Father because of the covenant and the gift of the law to Israel, “his first-born son”. God is also called the Father of the king of Israel. Most especially he is “the Father of the poor”, of the orphaned and the widowed, who are under his loving protection.
3. The Liturgy Calls God “Father” - We believe what we pray. We pray what we believe. To tinker with the liturgy is always to tinker with what we actually believe.
4. The Catechism explains why we call God Father and how this includes the mothering attributes of God - By calling God “Father”, the language of faith indicates two main things: that God is the first origin of everything and transcendent authority; and that he is at the same time goodness and loving care for all his children. Of course God transcends the human distinction between the sexes, He is neither man nor woman: he is God.
5. Calling God “Mother” and “Father” is confusing - Our world is confused enough about gender right now. Calling God both Mother and Father makes God some kind of transgendered being. Nope.
6. Gender identification enables a loving relationship - Think about it. What I mean is that we relate to others through gender. I relate to my mother as her son. I relate to my brother as my brother. I relate to my daughter as her father. I am male. They are either male or female. I cannot have a true relationship with someone who is neither male nor female… God wants us to love him and be in relationship with him. That is why he reveals himself as “Father” and why Jesus commands us to call God “Father” so that we can relate to him as his sons and daughters. We cannot be in a loving relationship with an abstract being who is sometimes Mother and sometimes Father.

There’s lots more in the article.

 

[unstoppable_II]

What political agenda are you talking about?

See my signature quote below.

 

[JimmyG88]

Can it be that anyone actually believes that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are ‘men’ in the way our limited minds can understand.

 

[unstoppable_II]

I was always taught to believe in God and angels as genderless. We can’t dare believe that the creator is in thrall to out human gender stereotypes. To comprehend the nature of the infinite isn’t possible for us

Does this mean that we are not “heirs” to the “kingdom” of Heaven?

 

[Novocastrian]

1. Calling God “Mother” and “Father” is confusing - Our world is confused enough about gender right now. Calling God both Mother and Father makes God some kind of transgendered being. Nope.

To be honest, I think this is the major problem now.

There are parts of the Scriptures where God is treated with feminine language. Canonised saints have called God Mother. And there are weirder things going on with divine sex and gender in some mystical writings. All of these can be read and believed by orthodox Christians without doing violence to the Faith or the witness to the Scriptures, provided one doesn’t throw out the vast majority of Christian tradition, etc.

But your point no. 5 shows the real danger. Our culture - even within the Church - is not sufficiently grounded in Scripture and the tradition of the Church to interpret such things properly. What could in theory be an interesting and fruitful theological variation in language is being used as a political battleground and a cheap gimmick. The result will be the confusion of the faithful, and a reinforcement of the perception that Biblical language and doctrine matters less than it ought to.

 

[JimmyG88]

Does this mean that we are not “heirs” to the “kingdom” of Heaven?

I don’t really know what you mean

 

[Thorolfr]

We can’t call God Mother? So what’s this by Juliana of Norwich at the Vatican website?

**God is our Mother **

"It is a characteristic of God to overcome evil with good.

Jesus Christ therefore, who himself overcame evil with good, is our true Mother. We received our ‘Being’ from Him * and this is where His Maternity starts * And with it comes the gentle Protection and Guard of Love which will never ceases to surround us.

Just as God is our Father, so God is also our Mother…

Our highest Father, God Almighty, who is ‘Being’, has always known us and loved us: because of this knowledge, through his marvellous and deep charity and with the unanimous consent of the Blessed Trinity, He wanted the Second Person to become our Mother, our Brother, our Saviour.

It is thus logical that God, being our Father, be also our Mother. Our Father desires, our Mother operates and our good Lord the Holy Ghost confirms; we are thus well advised to love our God through whom we have our being, to thank him reverently and to praise him for having created us and to pray fervently to our Mother, so as to obtain mercy and compassion, and to pray to our Lord, the Holy Ghost, to obtain help and grace.

vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010807_giuliana-norwich_en.html

 

[meltzerboy]

We can’t call God Mother? So what’s this by Juliana of Norwich at the Vatican website?

**God is our Mother **

"It is a characteristic of God to overcome evil with good.

Jesus Christ therefore, who himself overcame evil with good, is our true Mother. We received our ‘Being’ from Him * and this is where His Maternity starts * And with it comes the gentle Protection and Guard of Love which will never ceases to surround us.

Just as God is our Father, so God is also our Mother…

Our highest Father, God Almighty, who is ‘Being’, has always known us and loved us: because of this knowledge, through his marvellous and deep charity and with the unanimous consent of the Blessed Trinity, He wanted the Second Person to become our Mother, our Brother, our Saviour.

It is thus logical that God, being our Father, be also our Mother. Our Father desires, our Mother operates and our good Lord the Holy Ghost confirms; we are thus well advised to love our God through whom we have our being, to thank him reverently and to praise him for having created us and to pray fervently to our Mother, so as to obtain mercy and compassion, and to pray to our Lord, the Holy Ghost, to obtain help and grace.

vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010807_giuliana-norwich_en.html

I can’t say whether this conforms to Church teaching or that whatever is posted on the Vatican website must be gospel. However, apart from the mention of Jesus Christ, it does seem to be in line with the mystical writing found in the Kabbalah.

 

[truetofaith]

Can it be that anyone actually believes that God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are ‘men’ in the way our limited minds can understand.

No…only Jesus was, but with miraculous powers.

 

[JimmyG88]

No…only Jesus was, but with miraculous powers

And Jesus as the second Person of the trinity the other two persons and therefore ONE God are beyond gender surely

 

[JimmyG88]

I can’t say whether this conforms to Church teaching or that whatever is posted on the Vatican website must be gospel. However, apart from the mention of Jesus Christ, it does seem to be in line with the mystical writing found in the Kabbalah.

I imagine that it wasn’t a hacker.

 

[unstoppable_II]

… we are thus well advised to love our God through whom we have our being, to thank him reverently and to praise him for having created us and to pray fervently to our Mother, so as to obtain mercy and compassion, and to pray to our Lord, the Holy Ghost, to obtain help and grace.
…

Then why did you write “him”?

 

[Thorolfr]

Then why did you write “him”?

I guess you’ll have to pray to Julian of Norwich and ask her why she wrote “him” and maybe she’ll answer you in a dream

 

[unstoppable_II]

I guess you’ll have to pray to Julian of Norwich and ask her why she wrote “him” and maybe she’ll answer you in a dream

I didn’t think it was an article of faith.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Perhaps the calling of G-d Mother has some relation to the Jewish idea of the feminine or masculine-combined-with-feminine Shekinah found in the Kabbalah, particularly Zohar, mystical writings. I understand there is also a Christian idea of the Shekinah, which may take on a somewhat different meaning. The Shekinah further enables one to think of G-d as part of the natural world as well as supernatural. Due to this, to my mind, the notion may border on heresy. However, I am no Kabbalah scholar.

Sophia or Wisdom was feminine in the Bible, but God the male Father was always considered Creator, no doubt about it. Judaism is a very patriarchal religion. There were some strong women in the OT but none equivalent to God.

In Christianity, Mary is the Mother of God, and actually the closest you will get to a mother deity. Although she is not a God, she is the highest of all saints and was without sin and assumed into Heaven, and prayed to for intercession most fervently.