Noah's Ark - True Story or Fiction?

[twinc]

I agree…except when you ask Aunt Winnie how old she is!

of course it is probably you who misunderstand that when she says as old as the hills she means the people next door - twinc

 

[BlueSapphire]

A carpenter in Holland build an exact replica of the Ark. It was built approximately to scale according to the Holy Bible. It show some terrific pictures.

Noah’s Ark

 

[nickybr38]

why then build an Ark,taking a hundred years to do so,why not just move out up country or up hill since water finds its own level etc - why not just accept the word of God instead of way out,weird and wacky alternatives - twinc

Because sometimes the Word of God isn’t absolutely literal, as we see in Jesus. (Just saying that he taught through parables, not direct speak)

But, in the end, it doesn’t TRULY matter. I like my two alternatives.

 

[Ron_Conte]

1. There WAS a flood where Moses lived. During his time the people weren’t scattered across the globe as they are now, instead they lived in a central area and this area alone was flooded out. Thus, the flood covered the ‘world’ as man knew it. So the flood story is true from the perspective of man of that time. (please note this is also why there are SO many flood stories, it was an actual event that Moses and his children shared with their children and grandchildren and eventually the story became distorted as all stories do)

According to the ages and times stated in the Bible, the flood occurred about 4800 years ago. Anthropologists tell us that there were human settlements all over the globe at that time, including North and South America. The global extent of flood ‘myths’ also supports the idea of a global flood.

1. If you read the story of the flood it states that the depths of the earth rose UP as the rains came DOWN. It was not the rain alone that flooded the entire globe, instead the ocean itself rose up and swallowed the earth as the rains came down. Interestingly I was watching a documentary on global warming awhile back that insinuated something VERY similar could happen in our near future if global warming isn’t stopped…

There is not enough water in, on, and above the earth to flood the earth completely.

So there was literally a global flood, but the extent of the flood is figurative.

 

[nickybr38]

According to the ages and times stated in the Bible, the flood occurred about 4800 years ago. Anthropologists tell us that there were human settlements all over the globe at that time, including North and South America. The global extent of flood ‘myths’ also supports the idea of a global flood.

There is not enough water in, on, and above the earth to flood the earth completely.

So there was literally a global flood, but the extent of the flood is figurative.

Ah! All right. I’m not a huge history buff, I just drew that opinion out of a history documentary I was reading.

Then global flood it is.

 

[twinc]

According to the ages and times stated in the Bible, the flood occurred about 4800 years ago. Anthropologists tell us that there were human settlements all over the globe at that time, including North and South America. The global extent of flood ‘myths’ also supports the idea of a global flood.

There is not enough water in, on, and above the earth to flood the earth completely.

So there was literally a global flood, but the extent of the flood is figurative./QUOTE

there most certainly is enough water on the earth to flood the earth completely,if the earth is flattened out as it was before the flood which caused the oceans to deepen and the mountains to rise - twinc

 

[Roy5]

zdon011

On the contrary, I believe we have to pick and choose between parts of the OT that may be legitimate history and those parts that are based on Hebrew nationalism. Countries always try to paint their atrocities as just, even Hitler and Stalin. Weren't the Jews responsible for WWII? - Hitler's ridiculous argument. Weren't the farmers and others who resisted collectivization enemies of the people's revolution? - Stalin's wild argument.

 Until Christians stop embracing fundamentalism - the notion that you have to accept every word of scripture as factually and literally true - we can be dismissed as enemies of history, common sense, and justice. The flood story, of course, is only one of many outrageous atrocity stories in the OT. How can we believe that God commanded Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of such cities as Jericho and Ai? Can we really believe that God ordered Saul to murder every last Amalekite? Why do so many Christians today get exercised about abortion when they don't blink an eye at stories of God decimating whole populations, certainly including many children and babies still in the womb? We hide from reality when we respond simply: if the Bible says it we must believe it. Poppycock. Sounds like Islamic fundamentalism to me. 

 Keep smiling, regardless - and keep worshiping the true God who cannot be accused of such outrages. I go with the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, and not with stories of horrendous crimes committed 'in the name of' God.

 

[nickybr38]

zdon011

On the contrary, I believe we have to pick and choose between parts of the OT that may be legitimate history and those parts that are based on Hebrew nationalism. Countries always try to paint their atrocities as just, even Hitler and Stalin. Weren't the Jews responsible for WWII? - Hitler's ridiculous argument. Weren't the farmers and others who resisted collectivization enemies of the people's revolution? - Stalin's wild argument.

 Until Christians stop embracing fundamentalism - the notion that you have to accept every word of scripture as factually and literally true - we can be dismissed as enemies of history, common sense, and justice. The flood story, of course, is only one of many outrageous atrocity stories in the OT. How can we believe that God commanded Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of such cities as Jericho and Ai? Can we really believe that God ordered Saul to murder every last Amalekite? Why do so many Christians today get exercised about abortion when they don't blink an eye at stories of God decimating whole populations, certainly including many children and babies still in the womb? We hide from reality when we respond simply: if the Bible says it we must believe it. Poppycock. Sounds like Islamic fundamentalism to me. 

 Keep smiling, regardless - and keep worshiping the true God who cannot be accused of such outrages. I go with the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, and not with stories of horrendous crimes committed 'in the name of' God.

Ah, but you’re forgetting something… is scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit or not? If it is, we can’t ‘pick and choose’ what we believe and what we don’t. If it isn’t, then it’s fallible and what’s the point of believing anything in that case?

 

[twinc]

zdon011

On the contrary, I believe we have to pick and choose between parts of the OT that may be legitimate history and those parts that are based on Hebrew nationalism. Countries always try to paint their atrocities as just, even Hitler and Stalin. Weren't the Jews responsible for WWII? - Hitler's ridiculous argument. Weren't the farmers and others who resisted collectivization enemies of the people's revolution? - Stalin's wild argument.

 Until Christians stop embracing fundamentalism - the notion that you have to accept every word of scripture as factually and literally true - we can be dismissed as enemies of history, common sense, and justice. The flood story, of course, is only one of many outrageous atrocity stories in the OT. How can we believe that God commanded Joshua to slaughter all the inhabitants of such cities as Jericho and Ai? Can we really believe that God ordered Saul to murder every last Amalekite? Why do so many Christians today get exercised about abortion when they don't blink an eye at stories of God decimating whole populations, certainly including many children and babies still in the womb? We hide from reality when we respond simply: if the Bible says it we must believe it. Poppycock. Sounds like Islamic fundamentalism to me. 

 Keep smiling, regardless - and keep worshiping the true God who cannot be accused of such outrages. I go with the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount, and not with stories of horrendous crimes committed 'in the name of' God.

of course even if we dont understand we must accept that God knows what HE is doing for the best.It seems Hiroshima was barbarous but necessary etc - twinc

 

[twinc]

Ah, but you’re forgetting something… is scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit or not? If it is, we can’t ‘pick and choose’ what we believe and what we don’t. If it isn’t, then it’s fallible and what’s the point of believing anything in that case?

re fundalmentalism,abortion is more a Church issue than a biblical one - twinc

 

[nickybr38]

re fundalmentalism,abortion is more a Church issue than a biblical one - twinc

The bible was written by the Church, for the Church. The Church didn’t form because of the bible.

 

[twinc]

Ah, but you’re forgetting something… is scripture inspired by the Holy Spirit or not? If it is, we can’t ‘pick and choose’ what we believe and what we don’t. If it isn’t, then it’s fallible and what’s the point of believing anything in that case?

what it seems we are unwilling or unable to grasp is what Jesus said viz “my kingdom is not of this world”.The devil took Him up to the high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of [his] this world and said to Him all these will I give thee if thou will fall down and adore me".Jesus.furthermore said “seek ye first the kingdom of heaven and all these things shall be added unto you” - twinc

 

[twinc]

The bible was written by the Church, for the Church. The Church didn’t form because of the bible.

which Chuirch and what is the poinr you are trying to convey - the Bible includes the OT that the Jews revered - twinc

 

[nickybr38]

which Chuirch and what is the poinr you are trying to convey - the Bible includes the OT that the Jews revered - twinc

Honestly I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make either.

Are you saying we can pick and choose which parts of the bible to believe? That all churches are not of God? That truth is relative?

 

[redneck22]

There is not enough water in, on, and above the earth to flood the earth completely.

So there was literally a global flood, but the extent of the flood is figurative.

From my post 184 … that if todays world had its mountains bulldozed into the sea and all the valleys filled in so that you formed a complete sphere of the world, water would cover it at a depth of 2.5 kilometers or 1.5 miles, so there is no problem covering the earth with water.

eoearth.org/article/ocean

Also Genesis 1:2 states "Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. "

There was always enough water becuase that is how it was created on Day 1.

 

[Roy5]

Quickly summarized, the God I place my trust in (1) would never regret that he made mankind - suggesting that he had made a mistake - and then drown everybody but one family, including innocent babies, some still in wombs; and (2) he would always live up to his own ethical standards as passed along to us through the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

I believe the scriptures are inspired, but there are many parts of the Old Testament that (I believe) are infected by partisan history written to justify atrocities committed by Hebrew invaders by blaming them on God. These also added to the notion that God had selected the ancient Hebrews as the ‘Chosen People’ - another concept we must question. Does God really favor one race over another? I don’t see how this fits in with Divine justice and love for all people.

As long as Christians defend such atrocities, and ascribe them to God, how can we keep declaring that God is just, merciful, quick to forgive us, loving, etc.?  It's like depicting Hitler or Stalin as all that. Ridiculous!

 Christians need to stop defending the undefendable and believing the unbelievable. We need to embrace the gospel of Christ and not cheer because "Saul has killed his thousands but David his ten thousands!" What is there to cheer in that kind of celebration?

  God bless all his children and may religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[nickybr38]

Quickly summarized, the God I place my trust in (1) would never regret that he made mankind - suggesting that he had made a mistake - and then drown everybody but one family, including innocent babies, some still in wombs; and (2) he would always live up to his own ethical standards as passed along to us through the Ten Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

I believe the scriptures are inspired, but there are many parts of the Old Testament that (I believe) are infected by partisan history written to justify atrocities committed by Hebrew invaders by blaming them on God. These also added to the notion that God had selected the ancient Hebrews as the ‘Chosen People’ - another concept we must question. Does God really favor one race over another? I don’t see how this fits in with Divine justice and love for all people.

As long as Christians defend such atrocities, and ascribe them to God, how can we keep declaring that God is just, merciful, quick to forgive us, loving, etc.?  It's like depicting Hitler or Stalin as all that. Ridiculous!

 Christians need to stop defending the undefendable and believing the unbelievable. We need to embrace the gospel of Christ and not cheer because "Saul has killed his thousands but David his ten thousands!" What is there to cheer in that kind of celebration?

  God bless all his children and may religion become a bridge and not a barrier.

You say God doesn’t favor one race over another… and yet Jesus himself stated that he came ‘for the lost tribes of Israel’ and initially turned AWAY people who were not the ‘people he’d come for’. He changed his mind when he saw their devotion but I think it’s pretty clear there IS some favoritism going on there.

Who decides which parts of scripture are infected and which aren’t? Who has the right and knowledge to make these judgments? Couldn’t it easily be stated that the NT is just as infected since some parts were ‘corrected’ in their later form?

I suppose this is a really emotional topic for me because it was this very ‘pick and choose’ what you believe in the bible mentality that initially led me away from the faith. I have since realized that if I am going to be Christian I must accept the fullness of the faith, the good and the bad and that includes concepts that I find difficult to accept (like God flooding the entire world and/or destroying entire nations). Who am I to say to God; I find this concept morally detestable so I refuse to hear it?

If you read the walk of Jesus you’ll see in Him that God is NOT all sunshine and lollipops. He is a stern Father who loves and disciplines His children (spare the rod, spoil the child). We can’t always understand His punishment but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

 

[Nec5]

 Christians need to stop defending the undefendable and believing the unbelievable.

If we are to deem all those things from the Old Testament as undefendable and unbelievable, why should we believe and defend anything about Christ?

 

[twinc]

You say God doesn’t favor one race over another… and yet Jesus himself stated that he came ‘for the lost tribes of Israel’ and initially turned AWAY people who were not the ‘people he’d come for’. He changed his mind when he saw their devotion but I think it’s pretty clear there IS some favoritism going on there.

Who decides which parts of scripture are infected and which aren’t? Who has the right and knowledge to make these judgments? Couldn’t it easily be stated that the NT is just as infected since some parts were ‘corrected’ in their later form?

I suppose this is a really emotional topic for me because it was this very ‘pick and choose’ what you believe in the bible mentality that initially led me away from the faith. I have since realized that if I am going to be Christian I must accept the fullness of the faith, the good and the bad and that includes concepts that I find difficult to accept (like God flooding the entire world and/or destroying entire nations). Who am I to say to God; I find this concept morally detestable so I refuse to hear it?

If you read the walk of Jesus you’ll see in Him that God is NOT all sunshine and lollipops. He is a stern Father who loves and disciplines His children (spare the rod, spoil the child). We can’t always understand His punishment but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

it seems that what the Bible says has not been explained or understood.Lets just ask what would have warranted a global flood and why was it necessary.Would it have been better if it had never occured or prevailed and that whatever had caused it should have been allowed to prevail and offend God and goodness.It is happening again that the devil is getting humans to question the goodness and authority of God viz "did God really create death,disasters,suffering etc - what sort of a good God would countenance evil etc - twinc

 

[philk49]

The only reliable source of the story of Noah’s Ark is the Bible and no other. We can say it is true if there are evidences pertaining to the ark’s description in the Bible. But what really matters is that, what the Bible say is true. By that it means what it really wants us Christians to understand and believe is that the story in the Bible is a story. That further means it relates to something factual, to something real, that is our life. Symbolically interpreted or literally taken, the story is still the same, the meaning is there. It points to reality, again, the reality of what is life. What is happening in our world today. There are certain points in our lives that correlates with the story of Noah’s Ark. At the end of the day, albeit others say about the story, it says the truth. The Bible says the truth.