Noah's Ark - True Story or Fiction?

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Here is the Q and A I read in the Catholic weekly about Noah’s Ark and I don’t believe it. I think it is dangeorus to decide that some of the Bible is true while other parts are not true. Here is the Q and A. I am trying to find out what Catholic Doctrine teaches about this. Thank you in advance for taking time to address this with me.

"Q – What happened with the search for Noah’s ark? Wasn’t there an expedition sponsored by a Protestant church that set out to find the ark on Mount Ararat in Turkey with a lot of news stories? We would like to know what happened.
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        **A **-- As gently as possible the Q.B. must inform you that there is no ark.  

        Unless some enterprising Turks have salted the area with some timbers no one will ever find the remains of Noah's boat on Mt. Ararat or Mt. Everest or any other mountain, swamp or meadow.  

        Fundamentalists who thrive on the literal interpretation of every line in the Bible have uncovered a heap of trouble.  A little digging in Bible commentaries at the library would have saved the expense of four expeditions to Turkey.  

        Both flood stories in Genesis (there are two) match the pagan Gilgamesh epic (dated 3,000 BC) about the greatest disaster of all time.  

        God's chosen people of Israel like the story, changed the names, added a dash of homespun theology and called it their own.  

        There's nothing wrong with such adaptations.  We have a morality story.  Sinful people perishing by divine justice, salvation of the only just man and family, natural disaster of huge proportions, preservation of various species and at last a rescue by divine providence.  

        There's nothing wrong with that.  Jesus often used stories to illustrate important lessons.  And he used the "Epic of the Ark" too.  (Matt. 24:38)"
 
I find this to be a rather cynical, smug and unhelpful answer. On of the problems I have with a historical criticism approach to the Scriptures is that many people who have been taught this method tend to treat it’s findings as definitive and pooh-pooh any alternative (i.e. traditional) interpretations.

Here is an answer from the EWTN “Ask an Expert” forum that you may find more helpful:
**Noah
Question from on 06-26-2002: **
*History and religion teachers in my catholic High school (I am also a Religion teacher) are teaching that the Noah story is fictional. IS IT? What do I give my students so that they can challenge this unintended undermining of their faith? *
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**Answer by Fr. John Echert on 06-26-2002: **
Though it has been popular in some circles to doubt the historicity of the account of the Flood in the time of Noah, I personally accept this as an historical reality. One argument which has been attempted against its historicity has been that there are ancient accounts of floods to be found among other peoples; however, rather than discounting the reality of the Flood I view this as corroborative. In other words, the presence of multiple accounts of some incredible flood in ancient times would argue in favor of such an occurrence, rather than assume they all borrow upon each other.
One thing I look to in affirming the historical existence of figures of the ancient past is to look to the New Testament wherein many of the ancient figures and episodes are affirmed by Jesus and various sacred writers. This, in itself, lends great credibility to the historicity of the matter. For instance, regarding Noah, I note eight references in the NT, such as follows:
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Matt 24:37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. Matt 24:38 marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the Luke 3:36 Noah, the son of Lamech, Luke 17:26 As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Luke 17:27 the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed Heb 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned by God concerning events as yet unseen, 1Pet 3:20 Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight 2Pet 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of If Jesus believed in Noah and the ark, that is good enough for me.
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As to whether or not we must affirm that the flood encompassed the entire orb of the earth, the text would seem to teach this and subsequent texts would tend to corroborate this, but there is some flexibility with regards to the first eleven chapters of the Book of Genesis, as expressed in the encyclical “Humani Generis” of Pope Pius XII:
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“…the first eleven chapter of Genesis…nevertheless come under the heading of history; in what exact sense, it is for the further study of the exegete to determine. These chapters have a naïve, symbolic way of speaking, well suited to the understanding of primitive people. But they do disclose to us certain important truths, upon which the attainment of our eternal salvation depends, and they do also give a popular description of the origin of the human race and of the chosen people. It may be true that the ancient authors of sacred history drew some of their material from current popular stories. So much may be granted. But it must be remembered that they did so under the impulse of divine inspiration which preserved them from all error in selecting and assessing the material they used….“these excerpts from current stories, which are found in the sacred books, must not be put on a level with mere myths, or with legend in general…In the OT a love of truth and a cult of simplicity shine out in such a way as to put these writers on a distinctly different level from their profane contemporaries.”
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Even while acknowledging some latitude in these early chapters, it appears that science is increasingly able to corroborate what we have held in faith based upon biblical texts, including bases for such matters as an ancient deluge, genetic linking back to one mother and possible on father, and the possibility of extended life-spans prior to the deluge. ©
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Thanks, Chris
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Father Echert
ewtn.com/vexperts/showresult.asp?RecNum=310315&Forums=0&Experts=0&Days=2002&Author=&Keyword=noah&pgnu=1&groupnum=0&record_bookmark=40&ORDER_BY_TXT=ORDER+BY+ReplyDate+DESC&start_at=
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The flood of Noah’s day was a universal judgment of sin. God destroyed the world that existed at that time because of their wickedness. When we look at nature, with its testimonies to the flood, we are viewing a reminder that God does judge sin. It is also a reminder that God will save those who have faith in Him from judgment. God promised that He would never again destroy the world with water, but that a future judgment would take place. Jesus Christ came into the world to die for our sins and to restore man’s relationship with God, so that we need not fear His judgment

More in the link
manavai.com/articles/art1.htm

In Christ,
selvaraj
 
the existence of a flood arch-myth in the cultures surrounding that in which the Hebrew people lived out their history as the chosen recipients and preservers of God’s revelation is evidence of the reality of a flood, of whatever origin, that did indeed cover the know world at that time. Bear in mind that the events of the first half of Genesis occurred long before there was a Hebrew people, before Abraham finally begat the long promised son and founded his family.
 
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puzzleannie:
the existence of a flood arch-myth in the cultures surrounding that in which the Hebrew people lived out their history as the chosen recipients and preservers of God’s revelation is evidence of the reality of a flood, of whatever origin, that did indeed cover the know world at that time.
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Flood stories also occur in Native American legends, Pacific Island legends, and East Asian legends, which could mean that there was a worldwide flood, or that there have been many floods at different times in different places and so people have written stories about them.

Had there been a worldwide flood, it should be very evident in the geological record, which it is not except to diehard fundamentalists.
 
s8int.com/

A very good source for researching things like this. I found it very helpful. Also I would caution people in discounting things just because they are ‘Fundamentalist’ or ‘Protestant’…we can learn from everything, and anyone…as an example - which I am sure some will take out of context - but just the same…Job learned from his experiences - yet…they came not from God [Who allowed it to happen…some would even go so far as to suggest encouraged it by pointing Job out to Satan ] but God used it all the same to educate Job on who’s who around here 🙂 In the same vein - we can learn truths from fundamentalist teachings too … that’s not to say the WHOLE Truth…but a start, that will lead us into ALL Truth by the Holy Spirit. The truth Is Out There…

and Yes - the Flood IS evident in the Geological record…for those who have eyes to see. Ex. - most all of the fossils found have all died at the same time…and most all are found in sedimentary rock. Sedimentary rock reguires water - and a lot of it…how else would this be possible???
 
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PraRFLEsEkHm:
and Yes - the Flood IS evident in the Geological record…for those who have eyes to see. Ex. - most all of the fossils found have all died at the same time
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Which is news to the United States Geological Survey, who, despite being paid to know about that kind of thing, do not agree. They are under the peculiar impression that fossils are found across a range of three and a half billion years. The people at the fossil museum have idiosyncratically chosen to agree with the USGS, as have this bunch, with their simplified version for children.
…and most all are found in sedimentary rock.
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“Sedimentary rocks can contain fossils because, unlike most igneous and metamorphic rocks, they form at temperatures and pressures that do not destroy fossil remnants.”
Sedimentary rock reguires water - and a lot of it…how else would this be possible???
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Time - and a lot of it, like 3 500 000 000 years.
 
The reason there are flood stories in far flung places is that the human race spread to those places AFTER the flood event not before. So naturally, the descendants of Noah and his sons would have it as a part of their mythologies.

Human beings nearly went extinct about 70 to 80,000 (I believe that is the numbers) years ago, and scientists are still figuring out why. It may be that was the time of the flood, which took place everywhere humans lived within the Fertile Crescent, before they spread out across the globe.
 
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Mystophilus:
Which is news to the United States Geological Survey, who, despite being paid to know about that kind of thing, do not agree. They are under the peculiar impression that fossils are found across a range of three and a half billion years. The people at the fossil museum have idiosyncratically chosen to agree with the USGS, as have this bunch, with their simplified version for children.

“Sedimentary rocks can contain fossils because, unlike most igneous and metamorphic rocks, they form at temperatures and pressures that do not destroy fossil remnants.”

Time - and a lot of it, like 3 500 000 000 years.
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Sedimentary rock, is still sedimentary rock.
Using dating methods that include the precept that there WAS no flood - hardly proves anything…in reference to that - the most common method of dating is to use the depth at which the artifact is found to determine it’s age…the deeper it is - the older it is…however…how much material would there be covering artifacts in the event of a global flood…and how would that skew future attempts at dating if that fact were ignored?
Also I didn’t say ALL fossils were found at that date - I said MOST, there is some evidence that mammoths were hunted in North America by native cultures into the 18th century at least, since the objective of the Ark was to preserve life - why would anyone find it surprising that there were fossils outside of the event?
Many other people are also paid to know such things…and do.
 
Noah’s Arc is a true story,because many cultures around the world has a flood story.They coincide on the subject.🤓 And also is true,because it is in the Bible,the Word of God.:bowdown: :bowdown2:
 
Its obviously just a story ,people have to stop interpreting things so literally.
 
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PraRFLEsEkHm:
Sedimentary rock, is still sedimentary rock.
Using dating methods that include the precept that there WAS no flood - hardly proves anything…in reference to that - the most common method of dating is to use the depth at which the artifact is found to determine it’s age…the deeper it is - the older it is
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Actually, geologists use dating methods without reference to a global flood because they have no evidence that there was a global flood. As for the basis of that dating: “The ages of Earth and Moon rocks and of meteorites are measured by the decay of long-lived radioactive isotopes of elements that occur naturally in rocks and minerals and that decay with half lives of 700 million to more than 100 billion years to stable isotopes of other elements.” Also, regarding the age of the earth, which is an important consideration for the age of its rocks: “The most direct means for calculating the Earth’s age is a Pb/Pb isochron age, derived from samples of the Earth and meteorites. This involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204.” (This site also refutes various “young-earth” dating methods and other popular creationist theories.)
…however…how much material would there be covering artifacts in the event of a global flood…and how would that skew future attempts at dating if that fact were ignored?
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The question would depend upon where the water went, because the fossil material and the sedimentary mass would be dumped at the points at which the water flow lost momentum, in the manner of alluvial deltas. Unfortunately, no one seems to be able to explain where the water is supposed to have gone. It also raises the question as to why the fossils appear in such a consistent ‘evolutionary’ pattern, and why their geographical distribution is so remarkably even (see also the last link).
Also I didn’t say ALL fossils were found at that date - I said MOST, there is some evidence that mammoths were hunted in North America by native cultures into the 18th century at least, since the objective of the Ark was to preserve life - why would anyone find it surprising that there were fossils outside of the event?
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Regarding the uneven distribution of fossils, to which time/layer where you referring? I have yet to locate even one single source which claims that any particular time, or layer, contains the majority of fossils. Instead, I keep finding comments about the broad spread of fossils right through the geological from roughly 3.5 billion years ago.
Many other people are also paid to know such things…and do.
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Absolutely true, and you can find a lot of them right here.

While I strongly suspect that you are not going to investigate any of this because you have already decided that you know the truth and, consequently, anything which differs from that must be false, I would suggest that learning is not at all dangerous and that you just might acquire some useful knowledge from it.

Perhaps you could also provide me with some substantiation for your assertions, because I have been looking for it and yet have been unable to find anything from a remotely authoritative source.
 


This is a pic of my Noah’s Arc 🙂

Many creation myths have watery beginnings. Australian aborignial reflect archaeolgically proven migrations that took place perhaps 50,000 years ago. The Kakadu people of Austalia believe that the arrival of Imberobera, the Geat Earth Mother ancesteress, was by canoe, a mythical version of an event which archaeoligists and prehistorians accept, even though no canoes–since they are parishable artifacts–have survived.

Our Judeo-Christian beginning was rather watery as is the early Chinese account which is dated back to the second century B.C.E.

The Cherokee have an image of primeval water covering a no-yet- created earth.

The Yoruba myth from Nigeria in West Africa describe the earth as being created from the heavens and primal waters.

And the Sumer of ancient West Asia describe the earth sitting on a vast primordial sea of sweet water.

Sounds like collaboration to me.
 
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Mystophilus:
Perhaps you could also provide me with some substantiation for your assertions, because I have been looking for it and yet have been unable to find anything from a remotely authoritative source.
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While I have looked through your sources, here is where we differ - you believe that a long string of letters after ones name indicates an ‘authoritative source’, solely for that reason. I tend to believe that a solid belief in the Word of God, first, whether or not it is followed by a string of letters, is more of an acceptable authority. Many of our now accepted truths - King Mynos comes to mind, were proven by people woth no letters whatsoever following their names - just a firm belief in something written down, and a grim determination to prove it. Nevertheless - here:

the-scientist.com/1995/01/09/12/1

May God Bless you in your search for the Truth. Incidentally - there are many sources out there for finding answers - not all of them are correct…but many may have a piece of the puzzle of life. I know this - because that is how I came to Faith in the Catholic Church…by following the trail of Truth through the protestant churches.

Pax
 
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PraRFLEsEkHm:
While I have looked through your sources, here is where we differ - you believe that a long string of letters after ones name indicates an ‘authoritative source’, solely for that reason.
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Actually, I depend more on the fact that the person with the letters after his/her name belongs to an organisation which bases its existence upon professional scholarship, and which is, therefore, reviewed by peers around the world rather than being a case of some lone individual claiming to know the truth. Consensus is always more reliable.
I tend to believe that a solid belief in the Word of God, first, whether or not it is followed by a string of letters, is more of an acceptable authority.
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That would be wherein we differ, because I have met too many people with very solid beliefs in the Word of God, all of which happened to contradict each other.
Many of our now accepted truths - King Mynos comes to mind, were proven by people woth no letters whatsoever following their names - just a firm belief in something written down, and a grim determination to prove it.
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I think that you may mean Troy, which was discovered by the businessman [Heinrich Schliemann](Heinrich Schliemann), although he actually mislabelled the layers, damaged the site, and generated a reputation for pilfering artefacts. It should also be noted that he based his excavations upon the work of consular agent Frank Calvert, who owed much to Charles MacIaren, editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica. The palace of Minos, on the other hand, was unearthed by Sir Arthur Evans, Oxford and Gottingen graduate, formerly the curator of the Ashmolean Museum.
the-scientist.com/1995/01/09/12/1
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Unfortunately, this is a subscription-only site.
May God Bless you in your search for the Truth.
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And you too! 🙂
Incidentally - there are many sources out there for finding answers - not all of them are correct…
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Oh, don’t you worry; I know that very well.
 
Now I didn’t read all the posts (don’t have time today - I may go back), BUT with that said, I saw a thing on Nova on PBS about Noah’s Ark. They had some guy who worked for the Pentagon going over some of the ‘biblical’ evidence. It was a pro-Noah’s Ark thing. He said that the flood explained something like 17 natural occurences - a couple that I remember where the fossil record, the oil deposits, continental drift and subsequently mountains.

Unfortunately the show was a bit dramatized and sensationalized, but it was VERY interesting.

They built a scaled model of the ark and said that it could handle 200 foot waves and turn almost up to 90 degrees on its side and still upright itself.

As a catholic, I’m allowed to believe that it’s a literal story or a fictional story. I haven’t decided. I think I lean 50.000001% on the literal side.
 
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Dandelion_Wine:
As a catholic, I’m allowed to believe that it’s a literal story or a fictional story. I haven’t decided. I think I lean 50.000001% on the literal side.
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Why does it have to be fully literal or fully allegorical, instead of a little of both? Honestly, there are fully literal genres (like Exodus or Maccabbees), there are fully allegorical genres (maybe Jonah or Tobias), and there is stuff that is kind of a mixture (like, according to many orthodox Catholic scholars, Genesis 1-11 and the Apocalypse). In that vein, I think the most common orthodox Catholic view of Genesis 1-11 is that these sections are describing, in some sense, *true *history, but more from an allegorical standpoint.
 
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spauline:
Why does it have to be fully literal or fully allegorical, instead of a little of both? Honestly, there are fully literal genres (like Exodus or Maccabbees), there are fully allegorical genres (maybe Jonah or Tobias), and there is stuff that is kind of a mixture (like, according to many orthodox Catholic scholars, Genesis 1-11 and the Apocalypse). In that vein, I think the most common orthodox Catholic view of Genesis 1-11 is that these sections are describing, in some sense, *true *history, but more from an allegorical standpoint.
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That would require too much thought.😉
 
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