Noah's Ark - True Story or Fiction?

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Krasnaya Kometa:
Actually, it is. It was stronger even in the begining of the century than it is now. It’s a common topic of discussion among instrument makers and technicians. The really good piano technicians will tell you never to replace an old soundboard in a piano unless it’s shot, because a new one is not going to sound as good.
Wood used in a piano and wood used for structural support do not need the same properties. I don’t know that just because wood was better for musical instruments a century ago lends any substance to your argument.
I noticed you didn’t respond to my statement that a 12 x 12 is stronger than a 4 x 4 which is, in turn, stronger than a toothpick. So I guess I had a point. :rolleyes:
Yes, you had a point. Just as a 24 x 24 is stronger than a 12 x 12. I just don’t know what your point is. Do you ever wonder why no ship that size was ever built after the legendary Noah?
I’m only saying, we don’t know what could have happened way back then that made the Flood story possible. Perhaps a high-quality epoxy. Maybe genetically engineered wood. We don’t know one way or the other, so without further knowledge, we can’t just say it’s impossible.
Very Von Daniken-ish if you ask me. Epoxy? Genetic engineering? If they were so advanced, why use wood in the first place?
That’s debatable whether or not it did. Certainly a few people in here seem to think there’s evidence of it happening, and I perfer to listen to them, seeing as how it’s easier to know something exists, than to say it doesn’t.
Going back to my Von Daniken reference, you have a point.
Yes, but keep in mind that I wasn’t saying the Flood didn’t happen. I’m leaning a lot more to that it did happen.
I was agreeing with the theologic statements, not whether or not the flood actually happened. I know where you stand on that.

Peace

Tim
 
I don’t know how so many creatures of the earth could be brought to and moved into the ark.
 
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Orogeny:
Wood used in a piano and wood used for structural support do not need the same properties. I don’t know that just because wood was better for musical instruments a century ago lends any substance to your argument.
Well, as a guitarmaker, it does. Spruce’s accoustic quality is different now than it was, because the wood itself, like other woods, has changed. It’s the same species and everything, but it’s just not the same.

By the way, spruce is very closely related to fir, which is what is commonly used in the timber frames of houses. You know how when you drive a nail into your wall to hang a picture, you go into a “stud”? That’s fir, and it, like spruce, are both in the pine family. The stuff used in guitars is obviously a lot more select. So, not only do they share the same qualities, they’re basically the same wood.
Yes, you had a point. Just as a 24 x 24 is stronger than a 12 x 12. I just don’t know what your point is.
My point is, if it’s not strong enough, use bigger timbers.
Do you ever wonder why no ship that size was ever built after the legendary Noah?
Because it would be impractical, unnecessary, and also we don’t know that they didn’t.
Very Von Daniken-ish if you ask me. Epoxy? Genetic engineering? If they were so advanced, why use wood in the first place?
Who is Von Daniken? And I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m saying we don’t know it didn’t happen. We don’t know anything about it for that matter. So to say that it’s impossible to build a boat that big out of wood is just ignorant.
Going back to my Von Daniken reference, you have a point.
Again with Von Daniken. Who is he? And all I’m saying is, Let’s look at this example. Someone says, “I saw something”. Someone else says “I did not see it”. It’s much more likely that the second guy simply wasn’t looking in that direction when it happened, now, isn’t it?
 
Krasnaya Kometa:
Well, as a guitarmaker, it does. Spruce’s accoustic quality is different now than it was, because the wood itself, like other woods, has changed. It’s the same species and everything, but it’s just not the same.
Which has nothing to do with the structural strength of wood, which is important if you want to build a boat that you must live in.
My point is, if it’s not strong enough, use bigger timbers.
How big to support a ship in rough seas?
Do you ever wonder why no ship that size was ever built after the legendary Noah?
Because it would be impractical, unnecessary, and also we don’t know that they didn’t.
No, because it is not possible from an engineering standpoint. Ad we do know that they didn’t, because of those same engineering problems with wood applied then as they do now.
Who is Von Daniken?
He’s a guy who you should be very comfortable with. Try Google.
And I’m not saying that’s what happened, I’m saying we don’t know it didn’t happen. We don’t know anything about it for that matter. So to say that it’s impossible to build a boat that big out of wood is just ignorant.
Ignorant, huh. First off, we do know something about it. There is NO GEOLOGICAL evidence a global flood has EVER occurred. Second, engineering principles do not change over time, so building out of wood then was just as impossible as it is now.

Where do you get off calling me ignorant? You are the one proposing everything from epoxy to genetic engineering of wood to back up your story without ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.

I ask that you refrain from personal attacks.
Again with Von Daniken. Who is he?
Google is your friend. Try it.
And all I’m saying is, Let’s look at this example. Someone says, “I saw something”. Someone else says “I did not see it”. It’s much more likely that the second guy simply wasn’t looking in that direction when it happened, now, isn’t it?
Sure. I saw a pink fairy circling the moon with her friendly cow. Did you see it? Too bad, I am much more likely to be right, at least in your example.

Peace

Tim
 
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Orogeny:
Which has nothing to do with the structural strength of wood, which is important if you want to build a boat that you must live in.
Yes, actually it does. The same thing that affects the sound of the wood also affects its structure. I was only using instrument making as an example, but it’s a fairly widely known fact for people in the trades that wood used to be a lot stronger.

Don’t believe me? Go to the lumber yeard and try and put a thumbnail mark in a 2 x 4. It’s pretty soft material. Now rip apart your house and try and put your fingernail into one of the old studs that have been there for a century. It’s pretty dense, and it’s not because it’s old.

I don’t feel like I have to provide any more evidence for a known fact.
How big to support a ship in rough seas?
Big. How big? I don’t know exactly.
No, because it is not possible from an engineering standpoint. Ad we do know that they didn’t, because of those same engineering problems with wood applied then as they do now.
The fact that it’s improbable doesn’t mean nobody’s done it. Prove that they didn’t. You can’t say, “it’s impossible, nobody’s done it; and nobody’s done it because it’s impossible”. And it’s not completely impossible, just highly improbable and difficult to pull off.

Perhaps you are aware that impossible is not impossible? 1:10^50 is considered by scientists to be impossible, yet it is still not zero.
Ignorant, huh. First off, we do know something about it. There is NO GEOLOGICAL evidence a global flood has EVER occurred. Second, engineering principles do not change over time, so building out of wood then was just as impossible as it is now.
First, like I said, it’s debatable as to whether or not there actually is evidence. Second, it’s not as impossible as the primortial soup theory, which a lot of atheists blindly believe happened with literally no evidence whatsoever.
Where do you get off calling me ignorant? You are the one proposing everything from epoxy to genetic engineering of wood to back up your story without ONE SHRED OF EVIDENCE.
I’m not saying they had epoxy, I’m saying it could have been ANYTHING. It could’ve been epoxy, engineered wood, or little green men from Mars. We simply have no idea the number of ways how they could made it possible.
Sure. I saw a pink fairy circling the moon with her friendly cow. Did you see it? Too bad, I am much more likely to be right, at least in your example.
-_-

I’m talking something within the realms of non-LSD-driven sightings, such as a car driving by. I didn’t see the car driving by, but someone else did, and just because I didn’t see it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

You see, there’s a difference here. Your scenario indicates that the subject matter did not happen, because the subject matter is crazy. All else is not equal, since not only did I not see it, but you’d have to be a lunatic to see it. Since my subject matter is within the realms of this universe, the distinction is whether or not one saw it. Just beacuse you don’t see something doesn’t mean it isn’t there, and all else being equal, seeing something is more credible evidence to its existence than not seeing is to its lack of existence.
 
Hello everyone, I hope you are all having a blessed day.

I for one believe it as true. If I am wrong I have no problem with it at all. If one believes it to be just a story, that is fine, as if one believes it to be just a local event.

What is utmost important is that we understand what the meaning of it is. God`s sore displeasure with sin and sinful man. And there is an ultimate punishment for evil and evil actions.

There is science supporting it and science against it. But science is only man`s interpertation of the what,how and why of what God has made.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_10.gif
 
My husband is not Catholic and in our discussions he has said that the reason he could never become Catholic is because the Bible is so unbelievable, namely Noah’s Ark. For Noah to gather up 2 of every animal, insect, bird etc. is just an impossibility he tells me. Someone help me explain it to him. Pixie 32
 
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pixie32:
My husband is not Catholic and in our discussions he has said that the reason he could never become Catholic is because the Bible is so unbelievable, namely Noah’s Ark. For Noah to gather up 2 of every animal, insect, bird etc. is just an impossibility he tells me. Someone help me explain it to him. Pixie 32
What really healped me put it into perspective, and I don’t know how true it is, was a special on the History Channel a few years back. It dealt with Noah’s Ark and said it really wasn’t the whole Earth, but most likely the area of what is now the Black Sea. The theory was that a spit of land gave way and flooded an enormous valley-like area, forming the Black Sea. They are starting to find the remnants of what appear to be sttlements at the bottom below the mud. It helped me put things into perspective, especially when they said that to any ancient culture that lived there, that whole area would have been the “world.”
 
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Fidelis:
I find this to be a rather cynical, smug and unhelpful answer. On of the problems I have with a historical criticism approach to the Scriptures is that many people who have been taught this method tend to treat it’s findings as definitive and pooh-pooh any alternative (i.e. traditional) interpretations.

Here is an answer from the EWTN “Ask an Expert” forum that you may find more helpful:
the ark being made of wood ,and all those termites.?
 
BE CAREFUL!

Just an idea: use only the answers that the Church has given us.
If one is not careful, one might have answers to the wrong questions.
 
When I see Noah, I want to ask him why he just didn’ swat those 2 misquitos then… and improve all my summer nights.
 
Jim Baur:
BE CAREFUL!

Just an idea: use only the answers that the Church has given us.
If one is not careful, one might have answers to the wrong questions.
So, what is the difinitive Church position on this matter? Does the Magisterium state that Noah’s Ark did in fact happen? Does the Church state that it is merely a story with value? Or, do they place importance on the value of the story but leave it up to the individual which way he or she may wish to go? Or perhaps some other possibility? I’m split on the matter but whatever the Church says, I’ll go with.
 
Krasnaya Kometa:
So, what is the difinitive Church position on this matter? Does the Magisterium state that Noah’s Ark did in fact happen? Does the Church state that it is merely a story with value? Or, do they place importance on the value of the story but leave it up to the individual which way he or she may wish to go? Or perhaps some other possibility? I’m split on the matter but whatever the Church says, I’ll go with.
I would like to know the anwer, too.
HELP!!!
 
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buffalo:
The Church affirms the historicity of the Bible.
I don’t think too many people belive it isn’t true, but the question is the context it is written in. Was the entire Earth flooded, or just the known world at that time?

Same with creation: was it literally 6 days (144 hours) or 6 days to God, which could be millions of years for us.?
 
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wabrams:
I don’t think too many people belive it isn’t true, but the question is the context it is written in. Was the entire Earth flooded, or just the known world at that time?

Same with creation: was it literally 6 days (144 hours) or 6 days to God, which could be millions of years for us.?
The Bible says a global flood. If they find the ark at 17,000 feet above sea level then we will know.

Side note: If God only flooded the earth locally why isn’t the Bible more clear? He does know the future and He does know we would be examining this through modern day lenses.
 
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buffalo:
The Church affirms the historicity of the Bible.
Thank you!

How does that apply to Noah’s Ark?

Has the Church given a Papal teaching?

Does she teach it through tradition (Fathers, Doctors, saints)?

I have read Origen, Ambrose, Augustine, Aquinas, et cetera.

Ken Ham gives lots of answers. I do not know if his answers are to the correct questions. H. C. people give lots of answers. Again, I do not know if their answers are to the correct questions.
 
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