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pablope
Guest
I missed that one. I was reading too fast.
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campeador
Guest
This from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
The opinion that these chapters are mere legendary tales, Eastern folklore, is held by some non-Catholic scholars; according to others, with whom several Catholics side, they preserve, under the embroidery of poetical parlance, the memory of a fact handed down by a very old tradition.
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rev_kevin
Guest
Look at it logically, 2 of every kind of land animal on the size of Ark that was built. They would not all fit.It looks like you are questioning the power or God. Does he not have the power and the wisdom to make all these possible that you are questioning? How did he feed the Israelites in the desert after fleeing Egypt?
“Bread that the people of Israel called the manna. which is really not bread. It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey.” Exodus 16:31.
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adelore
Guest
When I was very young my CC class, clear up through 12 grade always** Taught that Noahs Ark and the flood were World Wide.** I guess if the Catholic Church taught it, then I should and **do **believe it.Your personal beliefs are of course fine. No one can really argue with or, in the end, dispute them.
But for the purposes of discussion, and to respond more specifically to the question the OP asked, do you also acknowledge that the Catholic Church does not require everyone to believe as you do regarding Noah’s Ark?
And since you want to know specifically…I’ve been to many other Churches who also Teach and Believe that Noahs Ark and the flood were “World Wide” and True.
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adelore
Guest
The Catholic Church is not going to brow beat anyone into believing anything, However, if one is to be a True Catholic of the Catholic Church, then of course we are going to believe what she teaches us.When I was very young my CC class, clear up through 12 grade always** Taught that Noahs Ark and the flood were World Wide**. I guess if the Catholic Church taught it, then I should and **do **believe it.
And since you want to know specifically…I’ve been to many other Churches who also Teach and Believe that Noahs Ark and the flood were “World Wide” and True.
By the way some of my teachers were Nuns, my cousin is a Priest and my Great Aunt became a Nun when she was young. They all believed in the Flood World Wide and of course Noahs Ark.
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JustaServant
Guest
One explaination I have heard is that they were young animals, as in babies/cubs ect.To me its impossible to have 2 of every earth bound creature on a Ark the size of Noah’s.
Not to mention all the food that would be necessary to feed them. Today we cannot build a big enough ship that would hold 2 of every earth bound creature plus thier food.
As far as flooding the entire earth. I would have to agree with you that it covered the whole (Noah’s known) world. If it covered the entire earth, for one, where did all that water go?
I personally believe it covered the entire world, but it’s not something I would fight about or use a criteria for a person’s Christianity.
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buffalo
Guest
Only the basics kinds were needed.Look at it logically, 2 of every kind of land animal on the size of Ark that was built. They would not all fit.
“Bread that the people of Israel called the manna. which is really not bread. It was white like coriander seed and tasted like wafers made with honey.” Exodus 16:31.
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MarianD
Guest
Yes, but show me where the Magisterium (all the bishops in communion with the Pope) have said it was a world-wide flood and defined it as a dogma.By the way some of my teachers were Nuns, my cousin is a Priest and my Great Aunt became a Nun when she was young. They all believed in the Flood World Wide and of course Noahs Ark.
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Bluegoat
Guest
People actually think that because it was taught in Catholic schools at some point it must be true? People were taught all kinds of things at Catholic school by nuns, like unbaptized babies go to limbo, or speaking native languages is degenerate.
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Drew0426
Guest
Obviously it’s POSSIBLE for God to have literally flooded the globe, then left no “proof” that He did this, other than the proof found in the Bible…
But is there really anything heretical (is that a word?) about believing that it was only Noah’s known “world” that flooded?
Of course it would be possible for God to literally flood the whole word, then clean up all of the evidence. Would He really do this? Did He really do this? Is the Bible historically, literally true if we interpret it in today’s context? Science seems to say no… I don’t think the Bible necessarily claims that the answer is yes either, does it? Does the Church really claim that the flood was literally global?
But is there really anything heretical (is that a word?) about believing that it was only Noah’s known “world” that flooded?
Of course it would be possible for God to literally flood the whole word, then clean up all of the evidence. Would He really do this? Did He really do this? Is the Bible historically, literally true if we interpret it in today’s context? Science seems to say no… I don’t think the Bible necessarily claims that the answer is yes either, does it? Does the Church really claim that the flood was literally global?
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buffalo
Guest
Or subsequent processes masked the evidence.Obviously it’s POSSIBLE for God to have literally flooded the globe, then left no “proof” that He did this, other than the proof found in the Bible…
But is there really anything heretical (is that a word?) about believing that it was only Noah’s known “world” that flooded?
Of course it would be possible for God to literally flood the whole word, then clean up all of the evidence. Would He really do this? Did He really do this? Is the Bible historically, literally true if we interpret it in today’s context? Science seems to say no… I don’t think the Bible necessarily claims that the answer is yes either, does it? Does the Church really claim that the flood was literally global?
Side question - why is He obligated to leave proof?
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rev_kevin
Guest
Ok lets say they were young animals. The Ark still would not be big enough to fit every land animal in it. There are probably millions upon millions of different animals that would have had to fit in the Ark.One explaination I have heard is that they were young animals, as in babies/cubs ect.
I personally believe it covered the entire world, but it’s not something I would fight about or use a criteria for a person’s Christianity.
Not saying someone should us it for their Christianity. Just saying that if the entire earth was covered with water, where did all that water go?
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edwest2
Guest
Do you have any Magisterial document reference that says otherwise?I think the flood was of the area around Noah’s land, so the Middle East. I’ve heard there is evidence to prove that a great flood happened in this area, but I haven’t looked into it too much.
Of course, the Hebrews would say “the entire world” because they didn’t have boats that could travel oceans and planes, so they didn’t know that the world consisted of more than the Middle East.
Do you trump the Magisterium of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church?
God bless,
Ed
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MarianD
Guest
If the Church doesn’t declare that one must or must not believe in something, then belief in that something is up to one’s own personal beliefs. That’s the freedom given by the Church.Do you have any Magisterial document reference that says otherwise?
God bless,
Ed
On the contrary, the burden of proof lies on you to show that the Church requires Catholics to believe or not believe something (in this case, that Noah’s Ark was a literal global flood). And there is nothing that can prove your point here.
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Noesis
Guest
God’s rule is absolute. He has given a law which humans must obey, or else face his wrath, his destruction, his total annihilation. Your adherence to his law benefits not only you, but the entirety of life on this planet. Do not dare to step outside of the boundaries he has established. If God is a tyrant, then so be it. We as humans have no power to topple such a tyranny, and if God deems such action to be correct (at least before he repents of it), then we certainly lack the wisdom to question him. Do not ever question, only believe, obey, and all will go well for you. Adhere to the law, acquiesce to the sacrifices, submit to the priests, and you will avoid the power of the Lord of Hosts.
Such a philosophical picture of God is given to us by this allegory of Noah’s Ark, and I think it is bleak enough without worrying about whether or not the myth expresses an historical chain of events. In fact, I think it is utterly irrelevant, and those of you looking for naturalistic explanations which support the story (or else contradict it), are completely missing the point here.
Such a philosophical picture of God is given to us by this allegory of Noah’s Ark, and I think it is bleak enough without worrying about whether or not the myth expresses an historical chain of events. In fact, I think it is utterly irrelevant, and those of you looking for naturalistic explanations which support the story (or else contradict it), are completely missing the point here.
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edwest2
Guest
Interesting assumption on your part. I was taught about the global flood in the 1960s in a Catholic school Religion class. There is no need to change that today.If the Church doesn’t declare that one must or must not believe in something, then belief in that something is up to one’s own personal beliefs. That’s the freedom given by the Church.
On the contrary, the burden of proof lies on you to show that the Church requires Catholics to believe or not believe something (in this case, that Noah’s Ark was a literal global flood). And there is nothing that can prove your point here.
God bless,
Ed
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diggerdomer
Guest
The only problem with that is that the Catholic Church does not require such belief.In Catholic school, in the 1960s, I was taught that there was a literal, global flood, and that Noah and his Ark were real.
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diggerdomer
Guest
Sorry, but this is not required (true) according to Catholic teaching.I
Understand? Real literal event or you have no reason for your faith.
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diggerdomer
Guest
I don’t read such as questioning the power of God. Of course not.It looks like you are questioning the power or God. Does he not have the power and the wisdom to make all these possible that you are questioning? How did he feed the Israelites in the desert after fleeing Egypt?
For me, the point is, are Catholic required to believe this literally? The clear answer is no.
And this in no way detracts from God’s power, wisdom, etc.
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diggerdomer
Guest
Which version of the Catholic Encyclopedia are you referring to? The online one, from the early 20th century, or the current 2003 edition? Thanks.This from the Catholic Encyclopedia:
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