Noise before Mass

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CrazyCat

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I went to an Ash Wednesday service last night for the first time in about 5 years. I was hoping for a quiet, prayerful moment before things got started, at least that is what I remember at the church I used to attend in NC. It was not going to happen. As usual, the choir/cantors were still rehearing, the people that where already there were chit chatting (this is about 10 min. before Mass), then a group of about 25 teenagers came in and they talked and laughed an carried on for the rest of the time. I thought I was in a school assembly. :confused: It was very distracting. Come to find out that they were the confirmation class and they had just got done having a class before Mass. Didn’t they know to be quiet when they entered the sanctuary or at least keep their voices down. Aren’t they taught this? Shouldn’t the teacher or some other adult in authority there said something? I don’t know it just seemed very impolite and irreverent to me. Or maybe I am just expecting too much. Sorry for my ranting.🤷
 
It is the one day of the year that I almost expect to walk into a noisy Church, not that I ever want to.
But…there are all kinds of people there on Ash Wednesday, some not even Catholic (and they don’t have to be to receive ashes). I was pretty pleasantly surprised that almost no one was talking out loud and the few that did talk even whispered, thankfully.
We use to have a great Pastor that would go up to the microphone and remind people of His Real Presence and ask that they remain respectfully quiet. It didn’t take long before everyone got the message.
 
Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Forgive me and the cantor for practicing yesterday. I got off work at 3:30, drove to a school to rehearse with a group of teenagers who are in a contest in a few weeks, then I drove over the church and made it by 4:45 for a 5:30Mass. The cantor is someone that I have only played for once, so we don’t know each other’s “mannerisms.” She didn’t know the Psalm or the Lenten Mass parts, so we had to practice them. I didn’t know two of the hymns, and we decided to change them to something more familiar to the congregation (with the priest’s permission). The order of the liturgy was slightly different due to the Distribution of Blessed Ashes, and Father walked over to explain things to us.

What were we supposed to do? Write notes to each other instead of “chatting?”

What exactly would YOU tell us to do? Just “wing it?” Never. As it was, BOTH of us messed up hymns, and the priest and the altar boy got their wires crossed at one point.

You know, Mass doesn’t just materialize out of the spiritual world and float into earthly existence like some kind of apparition. It involves REAL flesh and blood people and real earthly activities.

The instrumentalist and cantor don’t just know all the songs from the moment of earth’s creation. People need to have written down schedules and need to study and review what is written down and sometimes make changes. Someone has to turn on the heat, adjust the fans, find out what that clacking noise is down in the boiler room, turn on the lights, test out the sound system, fix the sound system when it squeals, etc.

We’re human beings and we make noise just by living and moving. During the Mass last night, when I set my book down, I accidentally crashed my arm into the keys and the congregation got treated to a dissonant chordal sequence. Sorry about that, but that’s what clumsy humans do.

If all of us who are involved with presenting you with a Mass didn’t prepare, you would have a very sorry Mass. It doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t just materialize. The musicians have lives outside of Mass and must often wait until the last minute to rehearse.

Again, I ask you and all the rest of us to remember that Golgotha was NOT a quiet place, and yet our Lord prayed.

I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. Can’t we all just put up with each other and accept all our human limitations? We’ll die soon enough, won’t we, and then we’ll have the peace of heaven to hopefully look forward to.
 
Cat,

I have to RESPECTFULLY disagree with you. The sanctuary is meant to be a place of reverance, worship, prayer, and participation in the sacraments. It should be set apart from the rest of the places we visit in our lives. After all, Our Lord’s Real Presence is there; body, blood, soul, and divinity. If this is not the case, why not have Mass in your garage, in the bathroom, kitchen, out in the street somewhere???

I understand that you need to take care of the practical things, but I think the main complaint was directed toward those people who are inconsiderate and disrespectful. Necessary talking can be kept to a whisper. Do you not have a rehearsal room to practice? Or if you’re in the choir, don’t you have regularly scheduled practice times? I applaud your service to God and His Church, more people like you are needed. But remember, many people come to the sanctuary for many different reasons. We should always strive to be considerate of others. Trust me, I am a husband and father of two children, one of which is an unruly toddler at times. But I would never dream of letting my child disrupt someone else’s prayer time.

…just my two cents…

God Bless.
 
Cat said:
I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. to.
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you mean like yourself?

before leaving the Diocesan Masses I was a Cantor (Church of the Blessed Sacrament, Charleston “West of the Ashley”, SC). I refused to practice before Mass while people were playing. It was easy enough to leave the Church out back, let the Music “minister” give me my first note, and practice outside. Without bothering those who came to pray, and not to listen to us.

I worked on Sundays downtown, mostly till 5 pm, but sometimes didn’t get out until 5:30, a quarter to 6. I cantored at the 6 pm Mass. Many times I got to the Church only moments before Mass started.
 
Cat, one organist to another: be prepared.

Actually, you can speak with your cantor or other members of the choir quietly without disturbing others. You are in the presence of Christ even on the organ bench. We play to God for the people’s worship and don’t get special treatment in the chatter department.
 
Cat said:
I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. Can’t we all just put up with each other and accept all our human limitations? We’ll die soon enough, won’t we, and then we’ll have the peace of heaven to hopefully look forward to.
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I must totally agree with you – you are indeed crabby and grouchy. Take a deep breath and realize that the OP only mentioned the musicians in passing (half of one sentence). The rest of the OP was about teenagers and talking.

And like you said, Golgatha wasn’t quiet. I might also remind you that the Man they crucified was innocent yet remained silent “like a lamb led to slaughter.” His silence is an excellent virtue to remember when we feel slighted or even attacked by someone else’s post. (not that I think the OP was about you in the first place)

Personally, I have to fight the urge to be “right” and “justified” and express my “righteous indignation” constantly. It’s one of my worst faults, which means I get a lot of practice at it. :o

Gertie
 
Cat said:
Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Forgive me and the cantor for practicing yesterday. I got off work at 3:30, drove to a school to rehearse with a group of teenagers who are in a contest in a few weeks, then I drove over the church and made it by 4:45 for a 5:30Mass. The cantor is someone that I have only played for once, so we don’t know each other’s “mannerisms.” She didn’t know the Psalm or the Lenten Mass parts, so we had to practice them. I didn’t know two of the hymns, and we decided to change them to something more familiar to the congregation (with the priest’s permission). The order of the liturgy was slightly different due to the Distribution of Blessed Ashes, and Father walked over to explain things to us.

What were we supposed to do? Write notes to each other instead of “chatting?”
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What would be wrong with making use of the Choir Rehearsal room? Isn’t that what it’s there for? 🤷
The instrumentalist and cantor don’t just know all the songs from the moment of earth’s creation. People need to have written down schedules and need to study and review what is written down and sometimes make changes. Someone has to turn on the heat, adjust the fans, find out what that clacking noise is down in the boiler room, turn on the lights, test out the sound system, fix the sound system when it squeals, etc.
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You set the mikes up every time you come in, right? So, you already know where the wires plug in, and which way the “on” switch goes, and where the mike stand has to be - behind the speaker system - so that it doesn’t squeal. You can wire it up, set the switch to “on”, and then do a quick mike test to make sure you didn’t plug anything in backwards, or inadvertently position the mike in front of a speaker - and then you’re done. It doesn’t have to take forever, and there’s no reason you have to do it right before Mass starts. You can set it up half an hour before Mass is to begin, so that any noise you make can be over before most people have arrived.
 
CrazyCat said:
I went to an Ash Wednesday service last night for the first time in about 5 years. I was hoping for a quiet, prayerful moment before things got started, at least that is what I remember at the church I used to attend in NC. It was not going to happen. As usual, the choir/cantors were still rehearing, the people that where already there were chit chatting (this is about 10 min. before Mass), then a group of about 25 teenagers came in and they talked and laughed an carried on for the rest of the time. I thought I was in a school assembly. :confused: It was very distracting. Come to find out that they were the confirmation class and they had just got done having a class before Mass. Didn’t they know to be quiet when they entered the sanctuary or at least keep their voices down. Aren’t they taught this? Shouldn’t the teacher or some other adult in authority there said something? I don’t know it just seemed very impolite and irreverent to me. Or maybe I am just expecting too much. Sorry for my ranting.🤷
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CrazyCat, I feel your pain. The parish where I sometimes attend daily Mass is unbelievably noisy before and after Mass. But it’s not the young people – it’s the senior citizens!:eek: Perhaps because their hearing is less acute, maybe, they talk really loudly as they say hello to each other before Mass. And after Mass, they hold the back doors of the chapel wide open and then stand there and talk.

I wish and pray to be able to be less distracted when I pray, and I’m making a little progress. Like I said in an earlier post, righteous indignation is one of my worst faults, so I try to be charitable.

I have no idea why the pastor or deacons don’t say something about this to people. I have no idea why the senior citizens are the worst offenders. I have not idea why they feel the need to physically hold the doors open when the entire chapel’s cleared except for the few sitting or kneeling in prayer or devotion.

Yes, someone should be training the teens to be silently reverent in the sanctuary. Yes, people should not be engaging in hello and goodbye conversations in the sanctuary. Yes, it can sometimes be hard to find some silent time before the Blessed Sacrament around Mass times. No, I don’t know what to do about 🤷

The teens and young adults, by the way, are the ones who are always quietly praying their rosaries and other devotions at this parish!

I’m glad you went to Mass yesterday. I pray that it was and will continue to be a blessing in your daily life.

God bless you.

Gertie
 
jmcrae said:
What would be wrong with making use of the Choir Rehearsal room? Isn’t that what it’s there for? 🤷
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Unfortunately, not all churches have a rehearsal rooms or a space outside of the church to rehearse. That said, I know at my parish, which doesn’t have rehearsal space, I have rarely ever heard the choir rehearse right before mass. Maybe once in a while like 30 minutes prior to mass if there was a difficult piece. But there is always quiet prayer time before the prelude and the mass.

I think a problem I’ve found with volunteer cantors is that because many of them have busy lives, they don’t have the time to come to a rehearsal with an organist on another day. And that’s very understandable. Many times the half hour or 15 minutes (especially if the organist/pianist is just ending the earlier mass) prior to mass is all they have. When I volunteered at my old parish, I never could do the Saturday afternoon rehearsals. I usually had wedding gigs, rehearsals for paid positions or other commitments. That said, because I’m a musician, the organist was never worried about me. We were usually able to just come in, talk about what kind of entrances he was to give for the congregation, tempi, etc. without having to review the music. But unfortunately, not all cantors are musicians, so they need the little rehearsal time that they can get.

But again, if right before mass is truly the only time to rehearse, one can do it without singing out or playing out. I’ve seen many organists just practice on the keys without putting out any sound. I know that it’s hard for a piano, though. You really can’t keep that quiet, but I find music to be meditative for prayer, so that doesn’t bother me. In regards to practicing with a cantor prior to mass, the cantor can sing very quietly so that only the organist/pianist and cantor can hear each other (especially if in a choir loft). I’ve had to do that when I’ve been hired to cantor for weddings/funerals with musicians I’ve never worked with before. I’m usually there an hour or more ahead of time anyway, so it’s not an issue, but sometimes if I’m running from one wedding or gig to another and only have a half hour to rehearse, we do it very quietly just to set tempi and get a feel for each other and the space.
 
A properly designed church has the choir lofted at the back. Their voices and the pipe organ lead the congregations’ songs to the front of the nave - to Jesus. It also allows for last minute preparation discussion without bothering the congregation. The Vatican II clamshell design has the choir at the front where they can become a distraction. Form follows function.
 
Ockham said:
A properly designed church has the choir lofted at the back. Their voices and the pipe organ lead the congregations’ songs to the front of the nave - to Jesus. ** It also allows for last minute preparation discussion without bothering the congregation.** The Vatican II clamshell design has the choir at the front where they can become a distraction. Form follows function.
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That is so true. Our parish has a choir loft and you can rarely ever hear them discuss anything prior to mass. They also never need microphones. I’ve noticed that these newer churches are never built with acoustics in mind and since there is no choir loft built high to carry the sound across the room, they have to use mics. But that’s an entirely different subject altogether.
 
Ockham said:
A properly designed church has the choir lofted at the back. Their voices and the pipe organ lead the congregations’ songs to the front of the nave - to Jesus. It also allows for last minute preparation discussion without bothering the congregation. The Vatican II clamshell design has the choir at the front where they can become a distraction. Form follows function.
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Our church has one organ. No practice room. And no choir loft.🤷
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CrazyCat:
then a group of about 25 teenagers came in and they talked and laughed an carried on for the rest of the time. I thought I was in a school assembly. It was very distracting. Come to find out that they were the confirmation class and they had just got done having a class before Mass. Didn’t they know to be quiet when they entered the sanctuary or at least keep their voices down. Aren’t they taught this? Shouldn’t the teacher or some other adult in authority there said something?
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Chances are, once the class is over, the teacher either goes home or is cleaning up the classroom. She (just playing the odds), is a volunteer and spends a couple of hours a week getting ready for the class, then spends some more of her own time during the class. Following the students to class, seems a bit above and beyond the call of duty.

By the time the students are in the Confirmation Class, their parents should have spoken with them about being quiet in church. But chances are, they are loud too. 🤷
 
Choir rooms where I come from are something that protestant churches seem to have about 50% of the time and Catholic churches not at all.

Churches that don’t have choir rooms need to make allowance for the practical needs of their singers. Actually rehearsing right before mass should only be done in cases of dire need, such as the case Cat mentions where people just can’t get together any other time.

Most singers need to warm up, though, which is a different thing to “practising”, and doing so is part of doing your job as professionally as you can. One or two cantors might be able to warm up elsewhere but a whole choir may need to do it in the church. I don’t think this is disrespectful as long as 1) there is no alternative and 2) there is a rule that warm-ups must be over a set time before Mass starts - perhaps the length of time it takes to say a Rosary might be a good guide.

If anyone arriving twenty minutes early to find the choir warming up but then observing them sit quietly for the final fifteen minutes found that disrespectful, then I don’t think that would be the choir’s problem.

Sounds like in the OP’s case, the general racket continued right up to the start of Mass, though.
 
My apologies to any one in the choir. My distress was not really aimed at the choir, you have to do what you have to do.:o I guess my main objection was with the kids. But kids will be kids. I guess I overreacted. It was just unexpected. Sorry.😊
 
Cat said:
Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Forgive me and the cantor for practicing yesterday. I got off work at 3:30, drove to a school to rehearse with a group of teenagers who are in a contest in a few weeks, then I drove over the church and made it by 4:45 for a 5:30Mass. The cantor is someone that I have only played for once, so we don’t know each other’s “mannerisms.” She didn’t know the Psalm or the Lenten Mass parts, so we had to practice them. I didn’t know two of the hymns, and we decided to change them to something more familiar to the congregation (with the priest’s permission). The order of the liturgy was slightly different due to the Distribution of Blessed Ashes, and Father walked over to explain things to us.

What were we supposed to do? Write notes to each other instead of “chatting?”

What exactly would YOU tell us to do? Just “wing it?” Never. As it was, BOTH of us messed up hymns, and the priest and the altar boy got their wires crossed at one point.

You know, Mass doesn’t just materialize out of the spiritual world and float into earthly existence like some kind of apparition. It involves REAL flesh and blood people and real earthly activities.

The instrumentalist and cantor don’t just know all the songs from the moment of earth’s creation. People need to have written down schedules and need to study and review what is written down and sometimes make changes. Someone has to turn on the heat, adjust the fans, find out what that clacking noise is down in the boiler room, turn on the lights, test out the sound system, fix the sound system when it squeals, etc.

We’re human beings and we make noise just by living and moving. During the Mass last night, when I set my book down, I accidentally crashed my arm into the keys and the congregation got treated to a dissonant chordal sequence. Sorry about that, but that’s what clumsy humans do.

If all of us who are involved with presenting you with a Mass didn’t prepare, you would have a very sorry Mass. It doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t just materialize. The musicians have lives outside of Mass and must often wait until the last minute to rehearse.

Again, I ask you and all the rest of us to remember that Golgotha was NOT a quiet place, and yet our Lord prayed.

I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. Can’t we all just put up with each other and accept all our human limitations? We’ll die soon enough, won’t we, and then we’ll have the peace of heaven to hopefully look forward to.
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What I would do (and do DO) is come prepared and respect the sanctuary and those who are trying to pray. Prayer is ALWAYS more important that our feeble attempts at practice. Youy as the cantor and musicians are not more important than those trying to use the sanctuary for what it was intended and to see otherwise is to engage in a personal vanity of our performance rather than an accompaniment to enrich the worship of all.

Respectfully - get over it.👍
 
We used to have problems with noise before Mass until the priest put up a simple sign by the entrance: SILENCE
Have to say there are some who obviously feel that their duties allow them a special dispensation to ignore that sign.

To get round that I usually try to get there at least an hour earlier which allows me to pray and contemplate in complete silence (and often in complete darkness!!)…at least until the Altar Server comes crashing through the doors and switches every light on in the place…Bless him 🙂
 
I think we may have got slightly off target by talking as if the main problem is choirs rehearsing noisily – though actually in our local clamshell post-Vatican II church on Ash Wednesday there was indeed a problem of this sort. But it did not matter too much.

But the much bigger problem is that the majority of the congregation in the two churches (a continent apart) to which I go to Mass during the year are now habituated to think of chatting before Mass despite the presence of the Blessed Sacrament as a spiritual good. Some priests I have talked to about this actually encourage it as a sign of a healthy parish and community. It then becomes impossible to meditate or prayer or even read from the Missal. This is surely a matter for the clergy to give a lead on, but many of them believe that chatting in the pews is a good thing. One or two point to the removal of the tabernacle from the centre of many churches as a sign that the space has indeed been secularised into a sort of assembly hall. (This argument would apply to neither of my churches where the Blessed Sacrament is plainly visible by all.)

How does one respond to this?
 
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