Noise before Mass

[Sarabande]

Most singers need to warm up, though, which is a different thing to “practising”, and doing so is part of doing your job as professionally as you can.

Yes. I’ve actually never heard cantors warm up in a church. I’ve always done it in the car or in the basement of the church, which my husband keeps telling me not to do because it’s dark, full of mold and if someone doesn’t close the doors behind them (two different entrances), you don’t know who could be down there. But where else am I going to do it? It’s hard to warm up sitting down in a car. haha!

I don’t think this is disrespectful as long as 1) there is no alternative and 2) there is a rule that warm-ups must be over a set time before Mass starts - perhaps the length of time it takes to say a Rosary might be a good guide.

This is great advice. I agree that there is a way to overcome these kinds of problems. I remember when I was in the choir, we were expected to come an hour before mass, so you got the warm-ups and any quick rehearsing done long before anyone arrived in the church.

 

[VivienneJ]

The noise of people greeting each other and catching up on their lives, of chattering excitedly after a class can indeed be disturbing before Mass. Various churches I have been to have addressed this problem in various ways.

I now attend Mass in a huge church that can and does hold over 1300 people (and there are 5 Sunday masses), the potential for noise is great, however, the Rosary is recited for the 30 minutes prior to each Mass. So no one chatters, either you join in the communal Rosary, or you pray silently while the words of the Rosary flow around you.

As there is a different organist and choir for each Mass, they use one of the halls to practise for 20 minutes before their Mass starts.

 

[whatevergirl]

I went to an Ash Wednesday service last night for the first time in about 5 years. I was hoping for a quiet, prayerful moment before things got started, at least that is what I remember at the church I used to attend in NC. It was not going to happen. As usual, the choir/cantors were still rehearing, the people that where already there were chit chatting (this is about 10 min. before Mass), then a group of about 25 teenagers came in and they talked and laughed an carried on for the rest of the time. I thought I was in a school assembly. It was very distracting. Come to find out that they were the confirmation class and they had just got done having a class before Mass. Didn’t they know to be quiet when they entered the sanctuary or at least keep their voices down. Aren’t they taught this? Shouldn’t the teacher or some other adult in authority there said something? I don’t know it just seemed very impolite and irreverent to me. Or maybe I am just expecting too much. Sorry for my ranting.

I hear ya, on this issue. I wonder whatever happened to whispering? It is so loud sometimes, that I feel I’m in a busy mall, or at a picnic…it’s nice that people catch up with each other. But whisper. Another reason we left a parish we were attending for a while, and moved to a another one about a week ago. I believe all parishes are blessed, and beautiful in their own rights…but, some are less reverent than others…some seem to be trying to get away from Catholic tradition than others. It’s a shame. My dd said one day (after coming out of mass at the noisy church where there is little reverence before or during mass)…"If we didn’t receive the Eucharist, I wouldn’t know we were at a mass.’ Out of the mouths of babes.

I believe in socializing…part of why we attend mass, is to worship with our neighbors…but, it doesn’t mean to treat the House of the Lord as a party hall. It’s disturbing, to a degree, to see such a lack of reverence.

 

[whatevergirl]

And she should stand guard at the door, too:

http://themasterstable.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/nun_ruler.jpg

 

[whatevergirl]

Was it quiet on Calvary before they drove the nails into Jesus’s hands and feet?

Forgive me and the cantor for practicing yesterday. I got off work at 3:30, drove to a school to rehearse with a group of teenagers who are in a contest in a few weeks, then I drove over the church and made it by 4:45 for a 5:30Mass. The cantor is someone that I have only played for once, so we don’t know each other’s “mannerisms.” She didn’t know the Psalm or the Lenten Mass parts, so we had to practice them. I didn’t know two of the hymns, and we decided to change them to something more familiar to the congregation (with the priest’s permission). The order of the liturgy was slightly different due to the Distribution of Blessed Ashes, and Father walked over to explain things to us.

What were we supposed to do? Write notes to each other instead of “chatting?”

What exactly would YOU tell us to do? Just “wing it?” Never. As it was, BOTH of us messed up hymns, and the priest and the altar boy got their wires crossed at one point.

You know, Mass doesn’t just materialize out of the spiritual world and float into earthly existence like some kind of apparition. It involves REAL flesh and blood people and real earthly activities.

The instrumentalist and cantor don’t just know all the songs from the moment of earth’s creation. People need to have written down schedules and need to study and review what is written down and sometimes make changes. Someone has to turn on the heat, adjust the fans, find out what that clacking noise is down in the boiler room, turn on the lights, test out the sound system, fix the sound system when it squeals, etc.

We’re human beings and we make noise just by living and moving. During the Mass last night, when I set my book down, I accidentally crashed my arm into the keys and the congregation got treated to a dissonant chordal sequence. Sorry about that, but that’s what clumsy humans do.

If all of us who are involved with presenting you with a Mass didn’t prepare, you would have a very sorry Mass. It doesn’t just happen. It doesn’t just materialize. The musicians have lives outside of Mass and must often wait until the last minute to rehearse.

Again, I ask you and all the rest of us to remember that Golgotha was NOT a quiet place, and yet our Lord prayed.

I’m sorry to be so crabby and grouchy, but honestly, I am having a very hard time with Christians who can’t tolerate anything except their way. Can’t we all just put up with each other and accept all our human limitations? We’ll die soon enough, won’t we, and then we’ll have the peace of heaven to hopefully look forward to.

Personally, I’m not speaking about the choir. Practicing before mass to me, is expected for a choir to do…it’s the parishioners who feel that is ‘their’ cue to talk loudly, laughing loudly…cell phones going off…that’s more of what I’m speaking of…I feel like saying…‘I’m trying to PRAY here.’ LOL (holding up my hands making a quotation gesture haha)

 

[Ockham]

Sometimes I wonder just what the heck these people are chatting about? Are they discussing the Gospel reading or wondering what the homily will be like? Exchanging their admiration of the nearest Saint’s day? Most likely they are talking about anything but the Church, God, or their salvation.

If you get eight hours of sleep then in a seven day week you are awake for one hundred and twelve hours. Most Masses are an hour in duration. That means less than one percent of your weekly awaken hours are spent in a church. Is it too much to ask to stop talking, slow the mind down, pray to God, sit in the presence of Christ, perhaps meditate, or even just be for 0.89% of your week?.

If so, then how about some common courtesy for the people who actually have the ability to show reverence for one hour a week.

 

[happymommy]

By the time the students are in the Confirmation Class, their parents should have spoken with them about being quiet in church. :

Thank You!! I think the parents are to blame here, not the RE teacher! We get an hour and a half with these kids a week! And if they misbehave in church it must be our fault… I think not! We are not their only teachers! If they don’t behave in Mass, there is nothing I can do about it! At that age they should know how to behave, but chances are they are not brought to mass often enough or there is no value placed on it in the home and they are just going through the motions:shrug:

As for the music. We don’t have another room to practice in or warm up. But, our cantors never practice right before Mass! They come in on Sat. morning or in between the services. The choir will practice during the week and then warm up about a half an hour before mass and then they are done.

 

[DJgang]

My apologies to any one in the choir. My distress was not really aimed at the choir, you have to do what you have to do. I guess my main objection was with the kids. But kids will be kids. I guess I overreacted. It was just unexpected. Sorry.

You know, I think it’s very possible that by the cantor practicing, all the kids, etc felt it was okay to talk. I’ve seen this happen a lot when otherwise everyone would have been being quite. Just something to think about … maybe the next Mass will be better.

God bless!

 

[Cluny]

I’ve noticed that those who attend the local EF gabble out loud right in the narthex.

This is just as bad, as the Narthex is an intrinsic part of the Church.

 

[The_Smiter]

I think we may have got slightly off target by talking as if the main problem is choirs rehearsing noisily – though actually in our local clamshell post-Vatican II church on Ash Wednesday there was indeed a problem of this sort. But it did not matter too much.

But the much bigger problem is that the majority of the congregation in the two churches (a continent apart) to which I go to Mass during the year are now habituated to think of chatting before Mass despite the presence of the Blessed Sacrament as a spiritual good. Some priests I have talked to about this actually encourage it as a sign of a healthy parish and community. It then becomes impossible to meditate or prayer or even read from the Missal. This is surely a matter for the clergy to give a lead on, but many of them believe that chatting in the pews is a good thing. One or two point to the removal of the tabernacle from the centre of many churches as a sign that the space has indeed been secularised into a sort of assembly hall. (This argument would apply to neither of my churches where the Blessed Sacrament is plainly visible by all.)

How does one respond to this?

I agree that the real crux of the problem is not the choir and lectors. HOWEVER, it is they who are setting the tone for those who might not be fully (properly?) catechised on such matters. When one enters the church and sees and hears that those who will be assisting with the Mass are being irreverent, what are they to think?

I believe that the redirection of the assembly needs to come from the pastor and other priests in a parish. If it is a problem - call it out and let everyone know that they are held accountable.

Is it too much to ask to keep silent for a couple of hours a week in order to celebrate the Mass reverently?

 

[Cat]

I have been Catholic now for five years, and have played piano for Mass in various parishes for most of those five years.

Only once have I ever played for a cantor who rehearsed with me a day or so before the Mass. Once.

I can’t imagine such a thing. You all just bowled me through the floor.

Always, I arrive about an hour early (although on Ash Wednesday, I couldn’t get there an hour early), and the cantor usually arrives anywhere between a half-hour early and five minutes early. Always.

I’m absolutely flabbergasted that parishes actually exist where cantors and instrumentalists rehearse in advance. Wow. In this city, we’re lucky to have cantors and instrumentalists, and many Masses don’t have cantors and/or instrumentalists. Most of the instrumentalists are playing in several parishes (some also play in Protestant churches), so they are on the run from church to church.

All of you should consider yourselves truly blessed to be in cities where your Mass musicians are willing to get together in advance and practice. Wow. Wowee wow. I’m still sitting here shaking my head. I’m just amazed.

BTW, the parish that I played for on Ash Wednesday does NOT have a choir room. There are other parishes that have choir rooms, but they are always locked and as a guest pianist, I don’t have a key. Occasionally one of the cantors will have an “in” with the church and somehow have hold of a key. But I don’t have one.

So I guess if you want silence before Mass, don’t come to this city. Sorry, but that’s the way it is here.

 

[Sarabande]

Cat - I think the majority of cantors do not rehearse a day or more before the mass. They usually only have enough time right before. That is a problem with volunteers. They are giving the time that they can afford, so we can’t expect them to give more than that. My old parish had cantor rehearsals on Saturdays (and, yes, that is unusual - never had it before in any other parish), but I never could go because of my own schedule with other gigs. But again, the organist didn’t have to worry about me since I was a musician. We hardly ever rehearsed with each other, just talked about what we were going to do about 15 minutes before the mass either in the sacristy or in the loft. He was more worried about the other cantors who didn’t read music and needed help.

I mentioned this in my other post, but I think this may help your situation with the cantors. This is something I know takes place in a number of parishes. Since you are usually there an hour before, you have plenty of time to practice your repertoire before anyone arrives - including the cantor.

For the cantors, they should already be warmed up before they get there. And usually cantors should have the music ahead of time to look at prior to the mass. I know in the past if we had to run something really quickly before mass, but it was close to the start of mass, I would sing really quietly so that only the organist and myself could hear in the loft. This would usually be for the psalm so that the organist would know where I phrased the words for the chanted verses.

If can also offer some additional advice in regards to being a guest musician… I am often a guest musician because I am hired to cantor for funerals, weddings, as well as just special masses at various parishes. I also know what it’s like to not be able to get in anywhere since they are not my parishes. For that reason, I try to always have my music prepared ahead of time. I warm up at home, then in the car while I’m driving there. If the organist agrees to come an hour ahead of time, we will meet and rehearse while the church is empty.

If you know that you can only make it about a half hour to 15 minutes prior to the mass, just be prepared ahead of time so that you don’t really have to do too much (if any) practice at the church. You should have the music way ahead of time to practice at home. If you can get to the church only 15 minutes before mass, just lightly touch the keys on the piano so that no sound is being made - just so you give your fingers a little work out and remind them where you want them to go. But always prepare yourself as if you will either not have a practice room or will not have time to practice at the church ahead of time. I’ve always found that helpful for myself.

I say this with love and to hopefully help because it does seem like you are frustrated with your own situation. From how you describe your city and situation, it seems like a real downer. But, as my mother always says to me in her constant, optimistic, can-do attitude, “Where there’s a will, there is a way.” Quiet before mass (even 10-15 minutes prior to mass) can be achieved with very few adjustments in how one either runs through the music or prepares ahead of time before even getting to the church.

 

[Wintersdemise]

In regards to the OP.

I feel your pain!

On Ash Wednesday, this lady that was sitting in front of me kept looking for people she knows so she can greet them as if The Mass is a social gathering.

Probably alot of you here see nothing wrong with that, but I think people like this women are very distracting to those trying to dig deep into prayer and contemplation like I was attempting to do that day.

Too many people are too lax when it comes to Church etiquette.

 

[Ockham]

Cat,

May God bless you for your music ministry. My faith grew enormously when I started playing the organ in church. You’ve taken some heat on this thread and handled it like a pro. I don’t think anyone was trying to be mean, but just pointing out the priorities.

In the nave we are in the presence of Christ. His body is in the tabernacle. For the devout, this is an opportunity to be with Him, for prayer, self-reflection, spiritual guidance. Sure there are others who think of it as a social networking chatter time, but they are missing out. The Mass is a central element of Catholicism and the Real Presence is the central element of the Mass, the Holy Sacrifice.

Hopefully the baby boomer post Vatican II years of relativism and chaos are coming to an end. A return to our true heritage will renew our reverence towards God and with that quiet all the chatter in the pews.

 

[jmcrae]

I have been Catholic now for five years, and have played piano for Mass in various parishes for most of those five years.

Only once have I ever played for a cantor who rehearsed with me a day or so before the Mass. Once.

I can’t imagine such a thing. You all just bowled me through the floor.

Whereas, here in this city, at least at the two parishes that I am most familiar with, if you are not at rehearsal on Wednesday night, then you do not sing in the choir that Sunday, period, full stop, end of story. Both of those organists are very professional, and they expect the volunteers to put in their best effort - the attitude of “Oh, well, they’re volunteers, so what can you expect,” doesn’t fly, around here.

This is a white-collar city, though, so the expectation or the unspoken assumption is that you are doing volunteer work in order to add to your resume, for the extra work experience, to broaden your skill set, and in order to get a good outside reference when you advance into a more senior position - so it is just expected that you treat your volunteer work exactly as you would treat a good job that you want to keep. People also have to apply for volunteer work pretty much the same as they apply for paid work, and they have to be qualified - although of course it is always easier to get volunteer work, due to the fact that it is unpaid. But it is also something that people take very seriously, that they want to do well at for the sake of their resume.

 

[Sarabande]

Whereas, here in this city, at least at the two parishes that I am most familiar with, if you are not at rehearsal on Wednesday night, then you do not sing in the choir that Sunday, period, full stop, end of story. Both of those organists are very professional, and they expect the volunteers to put in their best effort - the attitude of “Oh, well, they’re volunteers, so what can you expect,” doesn’t fly, around here.

It’s almost always like that for any church choir you go to. And it has nothing to do with what “class” you’re in. I’ve found that to be the case whether you’re blue collar or white collar. You have to be that disciplined for a choir, otherwise the choir won’t “gel”.

But there is a difference with cantors and I’ve noticed this for almost every parish I’ve ever sung in. Since I’m a professional cantor there are different expectations, but that is not always the case for volunteer cantors.

 

[Cat]

Just to clarify–I am paid for Masses that I do outside of my parish. The organists and pianists that I know charge $100.00 per Mass. I charge $25.00, since I am not making my living from music.

I do not get paid for playing at Mass at my home parish.

I sometimes donate my fee back to the parishes, since I am not in need of it for my living.

I am not nor have I ever been a choir director. I am simply an accompanist and that’s it. I’m a good accompanist, though, and in demand in our city by musicians.

I have worked with children’s choirs as a director, but I definitely teach songs, not music.

I do not know of any parishes in our city that pay the cantors; they are all volunteers.

There is an oratory in our city where the TLM is said several times on Sunday, and daily. (This has been done since the mid-1980s.) I’m pretty certain that their choir is totally volunteer, since one of my friends is in it. I don’t think they have cantors? They have an organist/choir director, and he is paid, but it’s just a pittance.

 

[whatevergirl]

We are attending a new parish now, and the small choir practiced before mass…it didn’t bother me, and it didn’t cause the rest of the congregation that was assembling to think it was their cue to start shouting across pews to one another…(like in our prior parish) I think every Catholic parish is a blessing, but some are just less reverent than others, it seems, as I have visited quite a few in Florida now! Just wanted to add that if I don’t think there is anything wrong with the choir practicing right before mass. It’s when parishioners think that is a license to talk loudly, to each other or on their cell phones that is problematic, in my eyes.

 

[Morwenna]

Sometimes I wonder just what the heck these people are chatting about? Are they discussing the Gospel reading or wondering what the homily will be like? Exchanging their admiration of the nearest Saint’s day? Most likely they are talking about anything but the Church, God, or their salvation.

If you get eight hours of sleep then in a seven day week you are awake for one hundred and twelve hours. Most Masses are an hour in duration. That means less than one percent of your weekly awaken hours are spent in a church. Is it too much to ask to stop talking, slow the mind down, pray to God, sit in the presence of Christ, perhaps meditate, or even just be for 0.89% of your week?.

If so, then how about some common courtesy for the people who actually have the ability to show reverence for one hour a week.

 

[mullenpm]

I believe that the children in the Confirmation class should be TOLD before class ends that when they enter the church they are not going to a social event and to KEEP QUIET. Why is that so difficult to do?

It is not only children though who chat when they come to Mass. In one church I used to attend for the Saturday Vigil Mass several elderly couples (they do the collection) would walk back and forth in front of the altar (it was a chapel), chat with each other, etc. I stopped going to that church. They thought they were so important, even more so than the Blessed Sacrament.

On thing I will never understand are posters on this Forum who really dislike V2. Whenever there is a case of irreverence, chatting at Mass, etc. V2 is always given as the reason.

I grew up before V2 and we had people who would come to Mass and chat with each other; their children would misbehave; etc. The churches were not completely silent, unfortunately. This irreverence has nothing to do with V2, it has to do with the state of our society. It is a ME-FIRST attitude.

Please do not blame everything that goes on at Mass today on Vatican II.:nope:

And Cat, why is the priest contributing to the confusion and noise before Mass by chatting with the choir? He should be doing his own preparing.

I agree with Wintersdemise and the observation that some people come to Mass simply to socialize with people they know. Why are they looking around the church when they should be praying?

My parish gives tours because it is an historical church and I really dislike the people walking around and chatting and ignoring the Blessed Sacrament (many are tourists and not Catholic) - to many this is just an interesting building.

I have started going to a Sunday evening Mass because the church is so quiet one could hear a pin drop. I go in about a half hour before Mass begins and I can say the Office, read a bit of the Bible, say a Rosary, etc.

I feel bad about not attending the Sunday morning Mass where our Rector celebrates a beautiful Mass, and I don’t know which is more important, an elegant Mass or a prayful and quiet church.

The evening Mass is less elegant, but it is still the Mass.