Noisy kids during mass

[Polak]

Interesting that you see people’s responses to you as “attacks” while failing to see your own attacks on the parents of the child you’re complaining about and anyone on this thread who dares to fail to validate you in your uncharitable attitude.

How ironic, given that the majority of the responses I have had to my so called ‘uncharitable’ post, including from you, have been uncharitable themselves. Hypocrisy I think is the correct term here.

 

[Psalm30]

It’s like banging your head against a brick wall. You speak the language and yet you don’t understand that the wording I used isn’t incorrect. Nothing else I can do for you here other than repeat myself.

This really isn’t about grammar. It’s about using a word that refers to objects to refer to a human being. If you were referring to an adult you didn’t know the gender of, would you still say “it”.

 

[Psalm30]

How ironic, given that the majority of the responses I have had to my so called ‘uncharitable’ post, including from you, have been uncharitable themselves. Hypocrisy I think is the correct term here.

Your posts have been uncharitable from the beginning of this thread. I’m calling you out on it. Kind of like you calling out the parents of the screaming child…

 

[Psalm30]

Polak is indeed being incredibly uncharitable and rather egregiously misunderstanding why people are criticizing him, but “it” doesn’t bother me at all; it is an archaic term for a child, but used to be quite common, especially since children were dressed alike until about age 3.

I think it’s a big deal. Coupled with everything else he has said and his attitude. I’m sure some people refer to unborn children as “it” to justify abortion.

 

[heidi_storage]

Honestly, I think there’s enough to criticize without arguing over “it,” and it is a perfectly valid (if archaic) usage. Some people refer to unborn children as “fetuses” to justify abortion, but I also use “fetus” because it’s an accurate descriptor of an in-utero human between 8 weeks of gestation and birth. Anyway, if Polak sticks his flounce, it’s a moot point.

 

[Psalm30]

Honestly, I think there’s enough to criticize without arguing over “it,” and it is a perfectly valid (if archaic) usage. Some people refer to unborn children as “fetuses” to justify abortion, but I also use “fetus” because it’s an accurate descriptor of an in-utero human between 8 weeks of gestation and birth. Anyway, if Polak sticks his flounce, it’s a moot point.

It’s just aggravating that he can’t at least see the other perspective. Yes, I’m well aware that it was done in the past. That doesn’t make it right. No one is doing anything wrong by saying it’s not okay to refer to a child as “it.”

I’m not sure how many times or how many different ways I can say it: I don’t disagree with him that parents shouldn’t sit and do nothing about a child screaming in church. But it’s not okay to say Is this child an orphan (yes, I know he didn’t actually say it but he says he “just might soon”); not acknowledging that people who don’t have children don’t completely understand the difficulty of parenting; and criticizing others but taking everything anyone says about his poor attitude to be unacceptable.

I really like @Allegra’s post. If he were paying attention to what he’s supposed to be paying attention to, maybe this wouldn’t be such a dilemma.

I’m reminded of St. Therese of Lisieux who, when something distracted her or annoyed her during prayer, she tried to offer up the annoyance to God rather than getting angry about it.

I think I’m going to do that now rather than let this thread bother me. I really do hope the OP’s heart will be softened and that he can have a more charitable attitude.

 

[Polak]

Oh I agree. I didn’t mean on this forum, I meant in this thread. When I said I was done I was talking about this topic specifically, as it doesn’t seem to be getting anywhere. I gave my opinion and people, rather than disagree with me and give their own counter viewpoint, have instead decided to attack my views (rather viciously at times, calling me obnoxious etc.) instead of just giving their view, that I accept might be different to mine.

I do feel there is too much censoring on this forum in general, but that’s a different topic.

 

[Mrchatsworth]

I like Cajunjoy, I consider myself reasonable. The OP and his reaction to a situation he may be ignorant of is the only thing that lacks reason as a Catholic.

 

[Sunbreak]

I understand your frustration completely. It seems like the only safe forum to post in is the casual game playing posts. I would say more, but then that will generate another whole bunch of comments, so I’ll end here.

 

[Irishmom2]

Oh, come on now. You can always pray for people in the Prayer Intentions section.

 

[Anicette]

Look, I know it isn’t always easy to handle your kids being noisy in church and I know sometimes parents have to take them to church because they don’t have anyone to leave them with. I do sympathise with that.

No, it’s not easy to bring young children at mass. They often run, scream … And some parents, including me, can become ashamed because we are seen, rightly and wrongly as incompetent parents.

I disagree that we should bring them because we only have nobody to keep them at home. WHO in a catholic family and society should stay at home to keep them?
That’s the reasonning of many parents, so the family stop going at mass. And when it become like that, that’s can be the end of all… catholicism.

Sometimes I feel like pointing to the child and saying loudly ‘Is this an orphan? Because I know no decent parent would let their child make so much noise in church without reacting.

You know that we should bring the child outside when It happens, but we should continue to go to mass.

One of the explanation of the parents non reaction can be… exhaustation…
She can also afraid of trying to correct her son, as she is worrying that the crisis would become worst and that people would think she don’t know to manage her kids, and she should not have had children.

Believe me, to have to justify our parenthood in the secular scene is enough. No need to justify it in front of the Church.

maybe, @Polak you may try to find a mass more oriented toward young people, instead of families, to avoid the problem?

 

[Anicette]

Horrible story! That’s sad because I am sure that many faithfull would love this family being at mass, but the mother only retain the negative looks…

Simcha Fisher wrote an article about people who left the Church for small things. Seems superficial but these stories are more than just annecdotes.

I agree that it can hurt! No one should make parents to feel unwelcome at mass!
Recently, I was excluded from a church group from bringing my mooving baby with me. It was my only social activity outside the house.
Now the group is dying (no wonder why…)

If we want a dying Church with only single people, childless couples and a big majority of old people (That’s already the sad situation in western countries…), that’s what we need to do!

We have to be very carreful when we include families. We SHOULD welcome them.