Nominees for worst hymn

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

You and my husband! I love the text written to his theme in that symphony, “Going Home”. You might know… did Dvorak later set it to that text, or did someone else? When you’ve got a good mezzo singing, it’s like butter and very poignant. But the symphony itself is gorgeous.

No. The words were written by William Arms Fisher and was arranged by Ken Bible (some also give him co-credit for the words as well).

Yeah, Dvorak is an interesting and (at many times) tragic fellow. If you listen to his Stabat Mater (absolutely beautiful), you can listen to the tragedy of his life. It was written (in big part) to help him cope and overcome the grief of losing all three of his then living children. He really poured himself out into that piece of Sacred Music, and it shows.

I agree with you about verse 2. How do we become the Eucharist? I never saw the text to that hymn before.

Well, according to the copyright, we’ve only had to suffer with it for 7 years now - but this is the first time I had ever heard it.

 

[Blueberry]

I love Amazing Grace, what’s people’s problem with it???
Same for How Great Thou Art.
Just because a hymn was written by Protestants doesn’t make it bad. A lot of their music is wonderful and should be used MORE. Rather a Protestant 19th century hymn than one written by Tom Conry or Bernadette Farrell.

Current bad hymns I keep hearing are:

Canticle of the Turning (catchy, but NOT sacred sounding)
Anthem
Ashes (we can do better!)
I Myself am the Bread of Life
and…Most of Them

Benedict, please do something!

Another point we need to consider: A lot of the music mentioned are good songs, and I enjoy them, but they are not appropriate for Mass. You can sing them at non-Mass prayer gatherings, around the campfire at camp, at retreats, wherever. We don’t have to give up everything but we should quit thinking that all religious music needs to be done at Mass. When I was younger, we sang St Louis Jesuit music at camp to the guitar and it was great. When I went home to my parish, they completely ruined it for me. You don’t do Blest be the Lord on the organ.

One more thing: Is it OK for a Catholic to go to an Anglican service just to experience the music?

 

[brotherhrolf]

There is nothing wrong with Amazing Grace and the four part harmony is awesome. How Great Thou Art? Few remember that it was actually sung before Vatican II. Yep! It was one of my mother’s favorite hymns.

My choir has sung with Anglican choirs on several occasions. They’ve got some great anthems - which we sing. But, what you will find is that sometimes they are just singing English translations of Latin motets. For many years my choir sang alternate verses (Latin/English) on Holy Thursday of the Pange Lingua. It was very awkward. Eventually we reverted back to our roots and now sing the Pange Lingua only in Latin.

 

[benedictgal]

There is nothing wrong with Amazing Grace and the four part harmony is awesome. How Great Thou Art? Few remember that it was actually sung before Vatican II. Yep! It was one of my mother’s favorite hymns.

My choir has sung with Anglican choirs on several occasions. They’ve got some great anthems - which we sing. But, what you will find is that sometimes they are just singing English translations of Latin motets. For many years my choir sang alternate verses (Latin/English) on Holy Thursday of the Pange Lingua. It was very awkward. Eventually we reverted back to our roots and now sing the Pange Lingua only in Latin.

Brother Rolf, my problem is that there are some doctrinal issues with Amazing Grace, specifically the salvation and justification concern. Even though we do believe in adult conversion, the notion that we “receive grace the hour” we “first believe” runs contrary to the Catholic practice of infant baptism. That is the major bone of contention for me whenever I hear this song during Mass.

Protestant hymns do have nice melodies, but the lyrics are not suitable for Catholic worship if they contradict what the Church teaches.

 

[pnewton]

. Even though we do believe in adult conversion, the notion that we “receive grace the hour” we “first believe” runs contrary to the Catholic practice of infant baptism. .

I think I made the point recently. You know, I think one reason we Catholics sometimes disagree on such things is that we attend different parishes with different problems. My parish has a large number of protestant converts. Believe me, there is no confusion at all about such doctrinal issues. We have a very conservative priest that hammers home points all that time about what the Catholic Church teaches, especially in ways we differ from our local protestant majority.

I will concede that such a song would not be prudent where the protestant influence affected the thinking of many of the parishoners.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

I have serious issues with verse 2 - we do NOT become the Eucharist!

You do not understand the full theology and the implications of the Eucharist.

It is because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because of his act for the life of the world that we too are called to manifest Jesus Christ and make his sacrifice known to the world.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

You do not understand the full theology and the implications of the Eucharist.

It is because of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, because of his act for the life of the world that we too are called to manifest Jesus Christ and make his sacrifice known to the world.

I understand fully what the Church teaches about the Eucharist. And the Church does not teach that during the Mass that we become the Bread of Life and Cup of Peace. We are not transubstantiated at the consecration.

 

[Melissa]

You are right, to a certain degree. However, I do believe that we have forgotten the experience of silence.

In his books and his writings, both pre and post conclave, Pope Benedict XVI has advocated the judicious use of silence, especially between readings, after the homily and after communion. Silence is not the mere absence of noise. It allows us the opportunity for quite reflection and to let the mystery sink into our souls.

Now, I don’t think that the liturgy calls us to “shout” either. You certainly don’t hear the Sistene Chapel Choir become the Sistene Screamers (although, they have greatly improved since Benedict became Pope).

This is one of the reasons I love my parish. Post-homily, there’s a good two minutes of actual, blessed silence before our priest stands up for the Creed. I LOVE that bit of silence.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Brother Rolf, my problem is that there are some doctrinal issues with Amazing Grace, specifically the salvation and justification concern. Even though we do believe in adult conversion, the notion that we “receive grace the hour” we “first believe” runs contrary to the Catholic practice of infant baptism. That is the major bone of contention for me whenever I hear this song during Mass.

Protestant hymns do have nice melodies, but the lyrics are not suitable for Catholic worship if they contradict what the Church teaches.

Yes, I know. But I would rather sing Amazing Grace than any of the a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’ compositions which have been written in the last 40 years which have equally problematic lyrics (at least from my point - I am not the Bread of LIfe)

Hrolf

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Yes, I know. But I would rather sing Amazing Grace than any of the a’strummin’ and a’grinnin’ compositions which have been written in the last 40 years which have equally problematic lyrics (at least from my point - I am not the Bread of LIfe)

Hrolf

Aside from the text, for me, I find the music so overused and so often poorly done that I literally cringe when it starts.

 

[brotherhrolf]

I think I made the point recently. You know, I think one reason we Catholics sometimes disagree on such things is that we attend different parishes with different problems. My parish has a large number of protestant converts. Believe me, there is no confusion at all about such doctrinal issues. We have a very conservative priest that hammers home points all that time about what the Catholic Church teaches, especially in ways we differ from our local protestant majority.

I will concede that such a song would not be prudent where the protestant influence affected the thinking of many of the parishoners.

Pnewton, I think you may have made a really good point. I’m over here in predominately Catholic south Louisiana where we have very deep roots - to the point of there is a cook book entitled "Who’s Your Mama, Is She Catholic, and Can She Make a Roux? I sometimes take for granted these things because we are so predominately Catholic in south Louisiana.

 

[Guitar]

Another point we need to consider: A lot of the music mentioned are good songs, and I enjoy them, but they are not appropriate for Mass. You can sing them at non-Mass prayer gatherings, around the campfire at camp, at retreats, wherever. We don’t have to give up everything but we should quit thinking that all religious music needs to be done at Mass. When I was younger, we sang St Louis Jesuit music at camp to the guitar and it was great. When I went home to my parish, they completely ruined it for me. You don’t do Blest be the Lord on the organ.

Two of my favourite points!

1. many of the inappropriate choices for Mass music are made by people who love a piece and have nowhere else to use it so they stuff it into the Mass rather than miss out on it.
2. one hears plenty about guitarists doing musically inappropriate things with music normally associated with the organ, but - newsflash - organists frequently do exactly the same thing to “piano music” and “guitar music” by completely missing the point of a piece’s style, thereby making not-real-good a heckuva lot worse. If I hear ONE MORE ORGANIST or keyboard player turn “City of God” into an oom-pah-pah waltz … it is a 6/4 piece in drop-D tuning with an alternative position chord progression that moves up the fingerboard, and, great hymn though it isn’t, it is certainly not improved as music by an organist turning it into a waltz and playing tonic bass notes instead of the D “pedal point”.

 

[lak611]

That was waaay too funny! You’re right, though. I should have included that song, along with another one that I used to like (until I read the lyrics): “I Myself and the Bread of Life.”

I myself, am the Bread of Life
You and are the Bread of Life
Taken and blest, broken and shared by all
that the world might live.

This bread is spirit,
gift of the Maker’s (which originally read Father’s) love
and we who eat it
know that we can become one
A living sign of God in us.

 

[verdigirl]

Wow, we have our own “tower of babel” right here in the church with all of these different translations. How ridiculous! I say, go with the original intent of the Latin in ALL the vernacular!

It’s just the reality of the Church in the USA. We have an increasingly migrant and Spanish-speaking body of Catholics, and it’s a new problem that we can solve, especially given the flexibility provided for in the post-Vatican II world.

If we don’t adapt, we will lose them to the Evangelical sects. If we force Latin on them, we’ll lose them as well. No one really speaks Latin anymore, except for a few people here and there.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

If we don’t adapt, we will lose them to the Evangelical sects.

So the Church must become more Protestant or some may leave to become Protestant?

This reminds me of an episode of Frasier where he is wondering why he can’t make any relationship work. He discovers that it is because he fears the inevitability of being abandoned and left alone. And he exclaims:

So you’re telling me that I’m alone because I’m afraid of being alone!!!

 

[verdigirl]

Now that Advent is coming fast upon us, I remembered another hymn in the “worst” category: Preparing the Way of the Lord (if you sing it, it reads: Preeee-paring the Waaay of the Lord). It wasn’t pretty to hear.

There is also a Mass setting (Verdigirl, if you can help me find this one) that is commonly played at Mariachi Masses (and sounds equally bad on the organ) that intones the Kyrie in Spanish with a joyful, bouncy tune. The Kyrie is asking God for his mercy because we have sinned. It shouldn’t be sung to a tune that makes you sway and clap your hands. It needs to be solemn.

One of the mariachi bands played at a wedding I was helping at and one of the songs they chose was “Spanish Eyes” for the preparation and incense of the gifts (and the couple). The priest sent the wedding coordinator up to the choir loft to tell them to stop.

Mariachis are the BANE of the Hispanic liturgical world. The setting you’re talking about is a composite Mass setting lumped together as the “Misa Hispana.” There are pieces put together from the Misa Panamericana, the Misa Popular, and more. It’s intended to be representative of the Ibero-american musical experience, since Panamericana comes from Central America (El Salvador, I think) and Popular is Mexican (I’m 99% certain).

This ends up being a “Mariachi” mass setting because it’s all easy to play.

If I’m not completely mistaken, Benedictgirl, I believe your new Archbishop was our former Auxiliary Bishop. Even though he his Mexican, he is adamantly opposed to using Mariachi groups at Mass. They were never intended to be liturgical music providers; rather, they were the band for the wedding reception. In fact, “mariachi” comes from the French word “mariage,” which of course means “marriage” or “wedding.” Your history will remind you that Napoleon III occupied Mexico at one time, hence the French connection (no pun!).

Mariachi are notorious for playing only what they know for Masses, and that ain’t much, since the caliber of those musicians is much lower than those in Mexico. Mariachi in Mexico is a very time-honored artistic musical tradition, and requires good operatic technique for singing over the brass instruments…on horseback, yet! The problem is that the groups we have in the USA are (dare I say it) the bottom of the barrel, with little-to-no formal musical training, and certainly no liturgical training!

I have had to deflect Mariachi ensembles as well, simply because their repertoire is not intended to support liturgies. They play Pescador de Hombres for EVERYTHING, because it’s one of the few songs they know. They also seemingly arbitrarily drop Eucharistic acclamations, or switch their order, because they just don’t know any better. I tell them what to play, and if they can’t play it, they are not allowed to play music at the liturgy. At best, they will be allowed to play the recessional, but only a sacred song.

 

[benedictgal]

It’s just the reality of the Church in the USA. We have an increasingly migrant and Spanish-speaking body of Catholics, and it’s a new problem that we can solve, especially given the flexibility provided for in the post-Vatican II world.

If we don’t adapt, we will lose them to the Evangelical sects. If we force Latin on them, we’ll lose them as well. No one really speaks Latin anymore, except for a few people here and there.

Verdigirl, my beloved sister, two years ago, a member of the White Mass Committee (which was planning the Feast of St. Luke Mass for heatlhcare professionals) decided to do something different because the previous year’s Mass had horrid music (2004). What they did was incorporate traditional sacred music (English and Spanish–hymns such as "For all Your Saints Still Striving, I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say, I Received the Living God and Donde Hay Caridad y Amor, etc) and Latin for the Mass parts. The Latin was taken directly from Pope Benedict’s Installation Mass, most notably, the Great Amen.

The cantor did a really good job in leading everyone. She sang the Psalm Response from the ambo as well as the Alleluia (which was also taken from Benedict’s Installation Mass). Luckily, she can sing in English, Spanish, Latin and Italian (she studied opera). The choir, up in the loft, were incredible.

The reaction from the faithful was one of amazement, wonder and awe. One of the skeptics came away with a new appreciation for Latin (the Mass parts were actually not that hard). Needless to say, they kept up the momentum for 2006. No word on what happened in 2007.

Don’t underestimate Latin when it comes to the faithful. I don’t profess to know Latin very well. However, I can appeciate the hymns with my heart, especially when they are powerfully done. We need to come out of ourselves and experience the Wholly Other.

I was sick with the flu (really bad) and I could not go to Mass that Sunday. As I was drifting in and out of consciousness, I managed to fully awaken at about 3AM. I turned the TV onto EWTN and caught the Papal Mass for the closing of the Synod on the Eucharist. I stayed awake for the whole Mass (2+ hours). The music was incredible. The homily was a blessing. It was indeed a great cosolation for me to be a part of this Mass (it was broadcast live) because, as strange as it may seem, I really prayed. Yes, the music was in Latin and most of the Mass was celebrated in Latin (with some Italian), but it was, in my opinion, what Mass should be like. Okay, so I was sick, and folks like Jim-OCDS (or whatever his initials maybe) can say that it was the Mexican cold medicine (Desenfriol), but, even though I was thousands of miles, several time zones and an ocean away, I experienced something beautiful, courtesy of live TV.

Watching this Mass renewed my enthusiasm to try to do something to improve the liturgical life in my diocese. I have been met with more roadblocks than my city has potholes, but something needs to be done, especially with the music. That’s why this issue is so very important to me.

 

[bpbasilphx]

How about “In the Garden”. Ever notice how often it repeats first person singular pronouns?

The singer never really wanders far from self in this one.

I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses.
And the voice I hear falling on MY ear
The Son of God discloses.

And He walks with ME and He talks with ME
And He tells ME I am His own…

And so it goes.

 

[benedictgal]

If I’m not completely mistaken, Benedictgirl, I believe your new Archbishop was our former Auxiliary Bishop. Even though he his Mexican, he is adamantly opposed to using Mariachi groups at Mass. They were never intended to be liturgical music providers; rather, they were the band for the wedding reception. In fact, “mariachi” comes from the French word “mariage,” which of course means “marriage” or “wedding.” Your history will remind you that Napoleon III occupied Mexico at one time, hence the French connection (no pun!).

Mariachi are notorious for playing only what they know for Masses, and that ain’t much, since the caliber of those musicians is much lower than those in Mexico. Mariachi in Mexico is a very time-honored artistic musical tradition, and requires good operatic technique for singing over the brass instruments…on horseback, yet! The problem is that the groups we have in the USA are (dare I say it) the bottom of the barrel, with little-to-no formal musical training, and certainly no liturgical training!

I have had to deflect Mariachi ensembles as well, simply because their repertoire is not intended to support liturgies. They play Pescador de Hombres for EVERYTHING, because it’s one of the few songs they know. They also seemingly arbitrarily drop Eucharistic acclamations, or switch their order, because they just don’t know any better. I tell them what to play, and if they can’t play it, they are not allowed to play music at the liturgy. At best, they will be allowed to play the recessional, but only a sacred song.

Well, I think something happened along the way because he allowed the temporary Cathedral administrator to bring the Mariachis back, much to my chagring and angst. It was all downhill from there.

I warned him that it was a serious mistake to bring the Mariachis back and I told him that there was a reason why they had been shown the door the first time around. Well, their second tour of duty was just as bad, if not worse. They played the same music week after week after week, irrespective of the Church’s liturgical seasons. The most embarassing thing was the fact that they played “Gloria al Senor” during the first and second Sundays of ADVENT!!! This was broadcast on the radio. I nearly had a wreck. They were also promoted by some secular folks as some sort of tourist attraction so that tourists could “experience” a Mariachi Mass Now, I don’t think that they ever told His Excellency about the tourist trap.

Mercifully, when the new director of liturgy for the diocese came in last year, the Mariachis were gone.

 

[Sarabande]

Another point we need to consider: A lot of the music mentioned are good songs, and I enjoy them, but they are not appropriate for Mass. You can sing them at non-Mass prayer gatherings, around the campfire at camp, at retreats, wherever. We don’t have to give up everything but we should quit thinking that all religious music needs to be done at Mass. When I was younger, we sang St Louis Jesuit music at camp to the guitar and it was great. When I went home to my parish, they completely ruined it for me. You don’t do Blest be the Lord on the organ.

I think you make a very good point. Some of the music - although I don’t think are great for mass, are good in settings like you mentioned or are perfect for broadway or something like that. I don’t really like that music outside of mass either, but that’s me.