Nominees for worst hymn

[verdigirl]

Hello,

So the Church must become more Protestant or some may leave to become Protestant?

This reminds me of an episode of Frasier where he is wondering why he can’t make any relationship work. He discovers that it is because he fears the inevitability of being abandoned and left alone. And he exclaims:

So you’re telling me that I’m alone because I’m afraid of being alone!!!

It sounds as if you’re inferring that somehow use of the vernacular is Protestant.

Last time I checked, we have options. Vernacular or Latin, right?

 

[verdigirl]

Verdigirl, my beloved sister, two years ago, a member of the White Mass Committee (which was planning the Feast of St. Luke Mass for heatlhcare professionals) decided to do something different because the previous year’s Mass had horrid music (2004). What they did was incorporate traditional sacred music (English and Spanish–hymns such as "For all Your Saints Still Striving, I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say, I Received the Living God and Donde Hay Caridad y Amor, etc) and Latin for the Mass parts. The Latin was taken directly from Pope Benedict’s Installation Mass, most notably, the Great Amen.

The cantor did a really good job in leading everyone. She sang the Psalm Response from the ambo as well as the Alleluia (which was also taken from Benedict’s Installation Mass). Luckily, she can sing in English, Spanish, Latin and Italian (she studied opera). The choir, up in the loft, were incredible.

The reaction from the faithful was one of amazement, wonder and awe. One of the skeptics came away with a new appreciation for Latin (the Mass parts were actually not that hard). Needless to say, they kept up the momentum for 2006. No word on what happened in 2007.

Don’t underestimate Latin when it comes to the faithful. I don’t profess to know Latin very well. However, I can appeciate the hymns with my heart, especially when they are powerfully done. We need to come out of ourselves and experience the Wholly Other.

I was sick with the flu (really bad) and I could not go to Mass that Sunday. As I was drifting in and out of consciousness, I managed to fully awaken at about 3AM. I turned the TV onto EWTN and caught the Papal Mass for the closing of the Synod on the Eucharist. I stayed awake for the whole Mass (2+ hours). The music was incredible. The homily was a blessing. It was indeed a great cosolation for me to be a part of this Mass (it was broadcast live) because, as strange as it may seem, I really prayed. Yes, the music was in Latin and most of the Mass was celebrated in Latin (with some Italian), but it was, in my opinion, what Mass should be like. Okay, so I was sick, and folks like Jim-OCDS (or whatever his initials maybe) can say that it was the Mexican cold medicine (Desenfriol), but, even though I was thousands of miles, several time zones and an ocean away, I experienced something beautiful, courtesy of live TV.

Watching this Mass renewed my enthusiasm to try to do something to improve the liturgical life in my diocese. I have been met with more roadblocks than my city has potholes, but something needs to be done, especially with the music. That’s why this issue is so very important to me.

I’m totally with you, my dear. I’m just saying that we shouldn’t FORCE Latin on some people. It helps to keep in mind what the reality is in the small rural villages in Latin America. Sometimes those people don’t even see a priest for MONTHS, so they have no exposure to Latin on a regular basis, if at all.

When they come here, they can handle Spanish at Mass, and the English they learn on the job.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

Hello,

I understand fully what the Church teaches about the Eucharist. And the Church does not teach that during the Mass that we become the Bread of Life and Cup of Peace. We are not transubstantiated at the consecration.

This isn’t about us literally being transubstantiated. You are missing the point.

 

[benedictgal]

This isn’t about us literally being transubstantiated. You are missing the point.

I must not be too tired (or, perhaps I’m still upset with the USCCB and the Spurs losing ), but here are my two cents and change.

PaixGioiaAmor, I don’t think our friend is missing the point. The real heart of the matter is that the lyrics these days are so ambiguous that they don’t even reflect accurate Catholic teaching and liturgical theology.

While St. Augustine said “Be whom you receive”, I don’t think he would have taken his point to the extreme that the hymn in question takes it. This hymn now makes Us the focus, rather than Christ. This is another example of “celebrating ourselves.”

Our music needs to not be wishy-washy and floating all over the place when it comes to Catholic doctrine and liturgical theology. It’s funny, but the hymns written by St. Thomas Aquinas never had this kind of ambiguity. They, and ancient hymns like Attende Domine, Parce Domine and O Come, O Come Emmanuel are quite solid and were very clear on Catholic teaching.

 

[mercygate]

Brother Rolf, my problem is that there are some doctrinal issues with Amazing Grace, specifically the salvation and justification concern. Even though we do believe in adult conversion, the notion that we “receive grace the hour” we “first believe” runs contrary to the Catholic practice of infant baptism. That is the major bone of contention for me whenever I hear this song during Mass.

Protestant hymns do have nice melodies, but the lyrics are not suitable for Catholic worship if they contradict what the Church teaches.

Nah. “Amazing Grace” does NOT say we receive the grace when we believe. It just says that the hour of “first belief” was “sweet”.

This is SO true, even for people who have lived faithful lives from infancy. For those who experience a moment when we “get it”, it is a turning point in our spiritual walk. There’s no OSAS or any other such nonsense in “Amazing Grace.” After all, the guy who wrote that hymn was an Anglican and most likely baptized in infancy.

 

[mercygate]

I think you make a very good point. Some of the music - although I don’t think are great for mass, are good in settings like you mentioned or are perfect for broadway or something like that. I don’t really like that music outside of mass either, but that’s me.

Here! Here! Campfires, Youth group, hand-holding, shoulder-hugging, swaying, community building, Cornerstone or Cursillo retreats, . . . I’d just as soon sing “Pange lingua” for those events but there is no harm in religious-themed music, not liturgical in character, being sung just for the love of God and the love of the music. Not everybody (sigh) likes or responds to Gregorian chant. More’s the pity.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

How about “In the Garden”. Ever notice how often it repeats first person singular pronouns?

The singer never really wanders far from self in this one.

I come to the garden alone
While the dew is still on the roses.
And the voice I hear falling on MY ear
The Son of God discloses.

And He walks with ME and He talks with ME
And He tells ME I am His own…

And so it goes.

I like this old gospel number but am not sure about using it in the Mass.
A “personal relationship” with the Lord is OK & not against Catholic teaching & beats all the “Catholic Community” stuff you hear in modern hymnbooks.
Would it make any difference if the lyrics went “And He walks with US & He talks with US?”

 

[mercygate]

I like this old gospel number but am not sure about using it in the Mass.
A “personal relationship” with the Lord is OK & not against Catholic teaching & beats all the “Catholic Community” stuff you hear in modern hymnbooks.
Would it make any difference if the lyrics went “And He walks with US & He talks with US?”

I have never heard it at a Catholic Mass. It says NOTHING about aNYTHING that has to do with the Mass or with a theology of the Church/communion/community.

I used to spend my summers in a small town in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula. I was Episcopalian then, and one year the parish “star” was a sixteen-year-old girl, who had a beautiful voice but sang flat. We heard this solo EVERY Sunday all summer long!

Years later, when I was rolling my eyeballs about this song to a friend, an Anglican bishop with the BEST tenor voice you ever heard (and who was very High Church and would never have used it at Mass), he strongly disagreed with me and asked me to sing the air, while he sang the harmony. WOW! the harmony is BEAUTIFUL!

 

[pnewton]

I like this old gospel number but am not sure about using it in the Mass.

I always thought “In the Garden” mentions very little about God, period, even though I like that old gospel song. It could just as easily apply to someone going to meditate in the garden about her boyfriend, especially if his name was “Andy.”

 

[Cracker_Mom]

How about using Sacred Harp hymns at Mass? At least the ones that have lyrics that don’t contradict Catholic theology.
We already have a few in the hymnbooks(“What Wondrous Love Is This?”) but we don’t use the old timey notes or harmonies.
“Amazing Grace” sounds totally different sung that way. I bet most choirs could pull it off.
Speaking of choirs, if we do “Sing to the Mts.” one more time…

 

[Wolseley]

If we don’t adapt, we will lose them to the Evangelical sects. If we force Latin on them, we’ll lose them as well. No one really speaks Latin anymore, except for a few people here and there.

That’s what John Spong said----and look where he ended up. He “adapted” himself right out of the Christian Faith.

 

[mercygate]

That’s what John Spong said----and look where he ended up. He “adapted” himself right out of the Christian Faith.

PLEASE! You’re giving me PTSD flashbacks! The man was my bishop for 18 years. I’m counting on a gazillion years out of Purgatory for that!

 

[Wolseley]

Good heavens, mercy----you deserve a medal.

 

[mercygate]

Good heavens, mercy----you deserve a medal.

I dunno. If it weren’t for people like Spong and his ilk, I might have stayed happily under the umbrella of Canterbury because I would not have been forced to see the futility of all of that. I might never have heard the Lord whispering: Not without Peter! I likely NEVER would have forced myself to endure the weekly assault of things like “Voices That Challenge” and “Sing a New Church.”

So I owe Dr. Spong a debt of gratitude.

 

[Wolseley]

The Holy Spirit uses mysterious vehicles, His wonders to perform…

 

[jonkknox]

Our music director has a “music supplement” that contains about 40 songs, about 90% of which are “African-American Spirituals” or some other songs in Swahili. This is at the University of Florida, where the total population of African Americans is at 13%, and I’d venture to guess that the Black population of our parish is about 3-5% of the total. Yet every Sunday we get “Twelve Gates to the City” “Gabi gabi” or “Thuma Mina”. When it’s in English it’s “Sing a New Church” or some other dreadful song from “your light blue Gather book” (one of four books/supplements/music aids that we have to go through).

 

[mercygate]

Our music director has a “music supplement” that contains about 40 songs, about 90% of which are “African-American Spirituals” or some other songs in Swahili. This is at the University of Florida, where the total population of African Americans is at 13%, and I’d venture to guess that the Black population of our parish is about 3-5% of the total. Yet every Sunday we get “Twelve Gates to the City” “Gabi gabi” or “Thuma Mina”. When it’s in English it’s “Sing a New Church” or some other dreadful song from “your light blue Gather book” (one of four books/supplements/music aids that we have to go through).

My sincere condolences. One would dream that at a University, the motet choir of volunteers out of the Music Department would step up to the plate and give you something more substantial.

 

[twosweetgirls]

OMGosh, this post has me laughing! I agree with the clapping “Gloria” (In ex-chel-sees DAY-O!) {daylight come and me wanna go home} and “Gather Us In”. In fact, it’s been going nonstop in my head–“Gather us in, the rich and the haugh-ty–Gather us in, the proud and the strong”. . .

Make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!!!

 

[daeve]

I like this old gospel number but am not sure about using it in the Mass.
A “personal relationship” with the Lord is OK & not against Catholic teaching & beats all the “Catholic Community” stuff you hear in modern hymnbooks.
Would it make any difference if the lyrics went “And He walks with US & He talks with US?”

I think the objection is that the focus is on us humans instead of on God. You’ll see that mentioned here a lot, that much of the music is about us, rather than God.

 

[Wolseley]

OMGosh, this post has me laughing! I agree with the clapping “Gloria” (In ex-chel-sees DAY-O!) {daylight come and me wanna go home} and “Gather Us In”. In fact, it’s been going nonstop in my head–“Gather us in, the rich and the haugh-ty–Gather us in, the proud and the strong”. . .

Make it stop! MAKE IT STOP!!!

*“Gather Us In”, the choir is droning;
“Gather Us In” is our entrance song.
“Gather Us In” sounds just like groaning;
I notice no one is singing along.

“Gather Us In” is sung every Sunday;
“Gather Us In” is sung every Mass.
Give us a break and sing something different,
“Gather Us In” gets old really fast.*