Non-Catholic Communion

[faithfulservant]

boy, am i steamed or am i just over-reacting …i await feedback from my learned board brethren

i have been taking communion and leading the Rosary at an assisted living home…no problems there because i make sure those that receive communion are Catholic… but a deacon comes in the 2nd wednesday of every month to conduct a communion service…the format is that of the Mass…w/o the consecration of course

i had been told that anyone that showed up at the communion service received … Catholic or not … i decided i could not in good conscience be a part of that… so i have declined to attend the previous 2 services… today i had to, because the other lady that goes was going to a funeral service and couldn’t make it and someone who knew the people had to be there to let them know the service was going on…and bring them if necessary … she told me it would be no problem , because the people i would bring would be Catholic… all well and good… made sense to me

problem was , of the 8 people that showed up, 4 of them were not Catholic…and 3 received Holy Communion… one lady came and asked if this was a Catholic service and i told her it was…she told me she would not attend because she was episcopalian… the problem manifested itself when the deacon told me “that’s ok…episcopalians can come to our service” … well IMO, its one thing to “assume” everyone there is Catholic and to offer them Communion…it’s quite another to know there are those there of separated denoms and to give them communion anyway

so, what say you… do i write a note to my priest informing him of my decision to not take part in an ecumenical communion service or should i just suck it up and be a part of something that i know should not be taking place

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

First have you spoken with the Deacon? I mean specifically about the non-Catholics receiving Communion and showed him the Church documents that forbid it? The next time I would quickly stand just before Holy Communion and say

“We welcome all who are fully united to the Catholic Church to receive Holy Communion, if you are Episcopalian or of another denomination you cannot receive Communion and may ask for a blessing instead”

You could put this on a sign and post it on the wall or somewhere where all would see it.

It all this fails to get the message across then I would speak with the pastor and then the Bishop.

 

[faithfulservant]

thanks for the quick reply Br. Rich… i will be sending an email to the 2 deacons involved today … other than canon law 844, are there other documents i should use to support my position…

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

The most recent document would be Redemptionis Sacramentum, dated March 25, 2004, which states:

[84.] … - care should be taken lest out of ignorance non-Catholics or even non-Christians come forward for Holy Communion, without taking into account the Church’s Magisterium in matters pertaining to doctrine and discipline. It is the duty of Pastors at an opportune moment to inform those present of the authenticity and the discipline that are strictly to be observed.

​

This quote is specifically pertaining to large crowds, where it would be difficult to differentiate between who is Catholic and who is not.

For the Deacon to knowingly distribute Holy Communion to non-Catholics and fail to inform them of the Church’s disciplines in this regard, is very serious.

I do think that the Deacon and the pastor need to be informed, and documentation provided.

I’d be hesitant to step down, however. If you leave, his abuse may continue unchecked. If he knows that you know Church teaching and are determined to report abuses, he’ll more likely offer Holy Communion in a more appropriate manner in the future.

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Redemptionis Sacramentum can be found at the Vatican website by clicking on this link: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html

Also, same document, paragraph 85:

[85.] Catholic ministers licitly administer the Sacraments only to the Catholic faithful, who likewise receive them licitly only from Catholic ministers, except for those situations for which provision is made in canon 844 §§ 2,3, and 4, and canon 861 § 2.[166] In addition, the conditions comprising canon 844 § 4, from which no dispensation can be given,[167] cannot be separated; thus, it is necessary that all of these conditions be present together.

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[Servant1]

faithfulservant:

boy, am i steamed or am i just over-reacting …i await feedback from my learned board brethren

i have been taking communion and leading the Rosary at an assisted living home…no problems there because i make sure those that receive communion are Catholic… but a deacon comes in the 2nd wednesday of every month to conduct a communion service…the format is that of the Mass…w/o the consecration of course

i had been told that anyone that showed up at the communion service received … Catholic or not … i decided i could not in good conscience be a part of that… so i have declined to attend the previous 2 services… today i had to, because the other lady that goes was going to a funeral service and couldn’t make it and someone who knew the people had to be there to let them know the service was going on…and bring them if necessary … she told me it would be no problem , because the people i would bring would be Catholic… all well and good… made sense to me

problem was , of the 8 people that showed up, 4 of them were not Catholic…and 3 received Holy Communion… one lady came and asked if this was a Catholic service and i told her it was…she told me she would not attend because she was episcopalian… the problem manifested itself when the deacon told me “that’s ok…episcopalians can come to our service” … well IMO, its one thing to “assume” everyone there is Catholic and to offer them Communion…it’s quite another to know there are those there of separated denoms and to give them communion anyway

so, what say you… do i write a note to my priest informing him of my decision to not take part in an ecumenical communion service or should i just suck it up and be a part of something that i know should not be taking place

I think you have to make a differentiation between non-Catholics COMING to the service and non-Catholics knowingly being given communion by a Catholic ordinary minister of Holy Communion (which the deacon is).

There is no problem with the deacon telling the Episcopalian that non-Catholics can come to our service. And there is no hindrance at all in taking communion when non-Catholics are there.

I see the gray area as coming into play when the Catholic deacon (who knows better) knowingly gives communion to a non-Catholic. He shouldn’t do that. The non-Catholic should have enough respect to not do that. HOWEVER - do you sin by taking communion, validly consecrated by a Catholic priest, administered to you by an ordained ordinary minister of the sacrament? I don’t think so. HE has the problem if he gives wommunion inappropriately to someone. That imparts no sin to YOU.

BUT - if it grives your conscience so, that is a decision you alone can make as to whether or not you want to receive communion. You have to consider who is “sinning” against whom in this set of circumstances. Are you sinning against God by taking valid Catholic communion from a valid Catholic minister of communion? Remembering that his errors are not impugned to you if you’re in a state of grace? You can certainly decide to withhold yourself if you feel so called.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Very few exceptions are cited by the Church.

Here, in Ecclesia de Eucharistia, are paragraphs 45 & 46: (my emphasis added in bold)

1. While it is never legitimate to concelebrate in the absence of full communion, the same is not true with respect to the administration of the Eucharist* under special circumstances, to individual persons *belonging to Churches or Ecclesial Communities not in full communion with the Catholic Church. In this case, in fact, the intention is to meet a grave spiritual need for the eternal salvation of an individual believer, **not to bring about an intercommunion which remains impossible until the visible bonds of ecclesial communion are fully re-established.

This was the approach taken by the Second Vatican Council when it gave guidelines for responding to Eastern Christians separated in good faith from the Catholic Church, who spontaneously ask to receive the Eucharist from a Catholic minister and are properly disposed. This approach was then ratified by both Codes, which also consider – with necessary modifications – the case of other non-Eastern Christians who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church.

1. In my Encyclical* Ut Unum Sint* I expressed my own appreciation of these norms, which make it possible to provide for the salvation of souls with proper discernment: “It is a source of joy to note that Catholic ministers are able, in certain particular cases, to administer the sacraments of the Eucharist, Penance and Anointing of the Sick to Christians who are not in full communion with the Catholic Church but who greatly desire to receive these sacraments, freely request them and manifest the faith which the Catholic Church professes with regard to these sacraments. Conversely, in specific cases and in particular circumstances, Catholics too can request these same sacraments from ministers of Churches in which these sacraments are valid”.

These conditions, from which no dispensation can be given, must be carefully respected, even though they deal with specific individual cases, because the denial of one or more truths of the faith regarding these sacraments and, among these, the truth regarding the need of the ministerial priesthood for their validity, renders the person asking improperly disposed to legitimately receiving them. And the opposite is also true: Catholics may not receive communion in those communities which lack a valid sacrament of Orders.

The faithful observance of the body of norms established in this area is a manifestation and, at the same time, a guarantee of our love for Jesus Christ in the Blessed Sacrament, for our brothers and sisters of different Christian confessions – who have a right to our witness to the truth – and for the cause itself of the promotion of unity.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

All of these later documents restate what the Decree on Ecumenism from the Second Vatican Council said which very clearly specifies how a Catholic may participate in a non-Catholic liturgy and how a non-Catholic can participate in a Catholic liturgy.

The post by Panis would apply if say there was a person who was Eastern Orthodox who had no access to an Eastern Orthodox church or Sacraments present and requested to be able to receive Communion. The Deacon should ask the Pastor who is the person responsible for the Sacraments in his parish. Then he should request permission from the Bishop for this person. This generally does not apply to Protestant Christians.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

And finally, Canon Law: (my emphasis emboldened)

Can. 844 §1 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments only to catholic members of Christ’s faithful, who equally may lawfully receive them only from catholic ministers, except as provided in §2, 3 and 4 of this canon and in can. 861 §2.

§2 Whenever necessity requires or a genuine spiritual advantage commends it, and provided the danger of error or indifferentism is avoided, Christ’s faithful for whom it is physically or morally impossible to approach a catholic minister, may lawfully receive the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick from non-Catholic ministers in whose Churches these sacraments are valid.

§3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgment of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other Christians not in full communion with the catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.
(Bear in mind that if one or more of these conditions is not met, the sacrament should not be administered.)

Above all, Pray, pray, pray.
Then, as Dr. Laura would say, “Go do the right thing.”

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Br. Rich SFO:

All of these later documents restate what the Decree on Ecumenism from the Second Vatican Council said which very clearly specifies how a Catholic may participate in a non-Catholic liturgy and how a non-Catholic can participate in a Catholic liturgy.

Agreed. Holy Mother Church, like a good Mother, has to keep restating her position to her erring children.

The post by Panis would apply if say there was a person who was Eastern Orthodox who had no access to an Eastern Orthodox church or Sacraments present and requested to be able to receive Communion. The Deacon should ask the Pastor who is the person responsible for the Sacraments in his parish. Then he should request permission from the Bishop for this person. This generally does not apply to Protestant Christians.

True, just covering all basis, and want you to be certain of the few exceptions that do exist.

No telling what excuse the Deacon may give!

Pax Christi. <><

 

[Fullsizesedan]

" The non-Catholic should have enough respect to not do that. "

A non-Catholic can’t be expected to know the canons of the RCC, and might very well think they are disrespecting their Catholic hosts if they refuse to accept the Catholic communion.

If the rules are the rules, they have to be made clear, the vast majority out there wouldn’t have a problem with respecting clear and enunciated rules, and in fact would do so instinctively out of respect for themselves.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Br. Rich SFO:

The post by Panis would apply if say there was a person who was Eastern Orthodox who had no access to an Eastern Orthodox church or Sacraments present and requested to be able to receive Communion. The Deacon should ask the Pastor who is the person responsible for the Sacraments in his parish. Then he should request permission from the Bishop for this person. This generally does not apply to Protestant Christians.

Brother Rich,

No permission is required to provide the Sacraments to a member of the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox Churches [or the Old Catholic Churches of the Utrecht Confession or the Polish National Catholic Church (in the US) - the “other Churches” referred to in the Canon section referenced below].

Note Canon 844

§3 Catholic ministers may lawfully administer the sacraments of penance, the Eucharist and anointing of the sick to members of the eastern Churches not in full communion with the catholic Church, if they spontaneously ask for them and are properly disposed. The same applies to members of other Churches which the Apostolic See judges to be in the same position as the aforesaid eastern Churches so far as the sacraments are concerned.

However, most members of those Churches will not request or accept Sacraments from a Catholic priest or deacon, as it is not acceptable under the Canons of their own Churches

Many years,

Neil

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I was under the belief that the Bishops permission was required except in cases of emergency. For a Roman Catholic priest to administer the Sacraments on a regular and routine basis to a member of an Eastern Church not in communion with Rome.

 

[Makerteacher]

The people attending may or may not know that they are not supposed to take Communion. I had to inform my own parents that they were not to take Communion at my wedding, for I had converted and they did not.

The deacon, on the other hand, almost certainly DOES know better, and needs to be confronted.

 

[deogratias]

Recently we have had approved the Tridentine Mass in the Phoenix Diocese. I know some people who attended SSPX churches in the past receive communion there which would not seem contradictory. But I also see people who are “members” of an SSPX parish receive.

Someone, Melman I believe, asked me if they needed to go to confession (because they attended SSPX parishes) before they could receive. I really don’t know the answer to that.

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Br. Rich SFO:

I was under the belief that the Bishops permission was required except in cases of emergency. For a Roman Catholic priest to administer the Sacraments on a regular and routine basis to a member of an Eastern Church not in communion with Rome.

Brother Rich,

You may be thinking of Section 4 of the same Canon, which applies to “other Christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church” (i.e., Protestants or non-canonical/ independent “Orthodox” or “Catholics”). It allows administration of the same Sacraments in case of death or grave and pressing need - but in the latter instance requires judgement by the local Ordinary or the Episcopal Conference:

§4 If there is a danger of death or if, in the judgement of the diocesan Bishop or of the Episcopal Conference, there is some other grave and pressing need, Catholic ministers may lawfully administer these same sacraments to other christians not in full communion with the Catholic Church, who cannot approach a minister of their own community and who spontaneously ask for them, provided that they demonstrate the Catholic faith in respect of these sacraments and are properly disposed.

Or, you may have construed it from Section 5 of that Canon:

§5 In respect of the cases dealt with in §§2, 3 and 4, the diocesan Bishop or the Episcopal Conference is not to issue general norms except after consultation with the competent authority, at least at the local level, of the non-Catholic Church or community concerned.

This Section refers back to the Sections (3&4) that I quoted previously, as well as to Section 2 (which permits Catholics to receive these sacraments from the liturgical ministers of non-Catholic Churches which have been deemed by the Catholic Church to have valid orders and sacraments - the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox, Old Catholics of the Utrecht Confession, and Polish National Catholic Church (only the US jurisdiction of the PNCC).

Its purpose is not to require episcopal approval of individual instances, but to assure that the episcopal authority not issue blanket dictates that make it appear to their counterparts in these other Churches that we (Catholics) are sheep-stealing or prosletyzing among their faithful, using Sacraments as a drawing card. Thus, from what I understand, the Missalettes used in the parishes of many US Latin dioceses include a paraphrase of the Canon in the back, indicating that Eastern Orthodox are welcome to request Penance or approach and receive the Holy Eucharist, but that they should seek the counsel of their clergy or hierarchy and follow the Canons of their Church in deciding whether to do so.

An example of an instance in which such “general norms” might be issued would be in an instance where persecution, etc., made it impossible for the faithful of a non-Catholic Church to be served by its ministry (similar to the situation in the USSR during the years of the gulags, where Orthodox and Catholic clergy routinely provided pastoral care to each other’s faithful whenever circumstances dictated the need to do so.)

Many years,

Neil

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Br. Rich SFO:

First have you spoken with the Deacon? I mean specifically about the non-Catholics receiving Communion and showed him the Church documents that forbid it? **The next time I would quickly stand just before Holy Communion and say

“We welcome all who are fully united to the Catholic Church to receive Holy Communion, if you are Episcopalian or of another denomination you cannot receive Communion and may ask for a blessing instead”**

You could put this on a sign and post it on the wall or somewhere where all would see it.

It all this fails to get the message across then I would speak with the pastor and then the Bishop.

Servant,

Sorry, I disagree with Brother Rich on the point that I highlighted. It is not your place to stand and announce any such thing. Your responsibility is to bring the matter to the attention of the responsible parish priest (I would recommend that, out of respect for the man’s office, you first discuss it with the deacon, provided you feel it will be fruitful to do so). If speaking to the priest is not productive, then go to the diocesan level, but you are not empowered to prevent anyone from approaching and I think it would be over-reaching to make any such announcement on your own volition.

Many years,

Irish Melkite

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I agree Irish Melkite that doing this is not the best action to take on ones own. However after speaking with the Deacon and/or Priest, small and short directives can be interjected during the Mass or in this case a Communion service to help people understand what is going on or to guide them in what to do or not to do. Like when to stand ,sit, kneel, who may receive who may not. It would be best if the Deacon himself would do this to correct the situation.