Non-Catholic Exclusion of the Eucharist

[rcwitness]

Yep…

I think it was in this thread when I shared the story about how my SIL and wife were talking one evening and SIL said that I should just go up, no one would know.

I would never tell a Christian of a denomination to “just go up” and receive.

At my wedding, my dad received. And when my Lutheran sister and family visited with us, she asked right then, if she should receive. I said its up to you. But this was because I’m sure I’ve expressed that only members are to receive. And at a certain point, I’m not gonna police others.

I’ve discussed the Catholic faith and doctrines with all of my family. It’s in their hands.

As for Catholics who don’t go to confession anymore, it is too bad. They are missing out. Does it affect the whole Church? Definitely. We all affect the whole Church, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

We discussed what to do about others in the Church who are living/acting wrong. Jesus tells us to let the weeds grow together with the wheat. Paul says to cast out the wicked one from among us. I think we need to do what we are compelled to do as individuals. If we are directly confronted by someone and their wrong behavior, we should try to compell them to do what is right. If it is met with resistence, it may take stronger action. But it all depends on the severity of the wrong behavior, whether they belong to your own Communion or not, and whether you have a larger thing in your own eye.

 

[SyroMalankara]

You know, members of the LDS community have rituals and ceremonies that are Temple based and closed to all unworthy Mormons (and of course non-Mormons). You need your Temple recommend to get past the gates, as it were.

However, other worship services and gatherings are always open to the public.

I wonder if Communion were to be considered a parallel to the Temple rites, how that would work. Just thinking out loud here. Would there be a cordoned off space for Communion? Would non-worthy Catholics be asked to leave as Communion began? Other possibilities? Something to think about…

This is not a new problem. In the early church, up to the middle ages, those not fully Catholic would leave after the sermon. Those not in a state of grace, not properly fasted, those going in and out with children or just plain in a bad mood just stood or sat where they were when it came time for distribution. No Church or Divine law states everyone must receive at every Mass. There are plenty of good practical reasons for not receiving at every Mass

 

[TC3033]

After listening to what many non-Catholics said while attending Catholic mass, I can understand how you feel. If anything, it only highlighted our differences and that’s the reality.

From Catholic standpoint, you are not less of a Christian as a person because you can be a good person, a good Christian, but your belief, yes, it does not have the fullness of truth. The fact that you are excluded from receiving Holy Communion, in a way very much highlight this.

As I said to the OP in my post, there is nothing much that can be done here to make you feel better as far as the mass is concerned. It would be a point of difference. The only thing for you would be to accept the mass as it is – that you are not going to agree with it; it is exclusively a Catholic worship. And thus should you go for a Catholic mass together with family members who are Catholics, remember that you are attending a worship which is nothing according to your set of belief. I think that would help – knowing that you are going to a liturgy of a different religion.
The OP’s boyfriend has to come to term that Catholic mass is different from his set belief and then start from there. There is no two ways about it.

God bless.

You’re bolded kind of makes my point. I haven’t argued one way or another in this thread, just bringing to light the other side. Many non-denom, Evangelical, etc… don’t understand it’s a different religion. To all of us Christianity is the religion, and to us who grew up non-denom, etc. don’t/won’t understand. We see it as all Christians are all God’s children on an equal plane and that communion is when all of God’s children come together at His table.

It can be a real culture shock to be denied His table and learn how Catholics really feel about non-Catholics (your first line; you’re not less of a Christian, but you are less of a Christian) at first. How I was treated, I know it was for me, and that’s probably what the OP’s boyfriend is going through.

OP can’t expect this feeling to change overnight. It’s basically telling her boyfriend that his belief system is incorrect, wrong, and that (correct me if I’m wrong) we aren’t all part of God’s family. That is why I continue to bring up showing some compassion and understanding of his side.

Everyone here keeps saying that the boyfriend needs to do this, or he needs to do that. He does, but it would be nice to find a way for the OP to come down this two way street to meet him. It would go a long way if she cares about him. If not, then she can just pitch the advice.

What else would be sweet…if the OP actually came back .

 

[TC3033]

**I would never tell a Christian of a denomination to “just go up” and receive. **
At my wedding, my dad received. And when my Lutheran sister and family visited with us, she asked right then, if she should receive. I said its up to you. But this was because I’m sure I’ve expressed that only members are to receive. And at a certain point, I’m not gonna police others.

I’ve discussed the Catholic faith and doctrines with all of my family. It’s in their hands.

As for Catholics who don’t go to confession anymore, it is too bad. They are missing out. Does it affect the whole Church? Definitely. We all affect the whole Church, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

We discussed what to do about others in the Church who are living/acting wrong. Jesus tells us to let the weeds grow together with the wheat. Paul says to cast out the wicked one from among us. I think we need to do what we are compelled to do as individuals. If we are directly confronted by someone and their wrong behavior, we should try to compell them to do what is right. If it is met with resistence, it may take stronger action. But it all depends on the severity of the wrong behavior, whether they belong to your own Communion or not, and whether you have a larger thing in your own eye.

Through our conversations on here I understand that you wouldn’t (nor would pretty much anyone else), and in turn I never would either. It’s just my point that there are people out there who, even though confirmed, still don’t understand.

It gives off a little “do as I say, not as I do” and can just add to the confusion. Maybe 16 years ago when I started going to Mass with their family and she had told me to “just go” I would have.

 

[Padres1969]

You’re bolded kind of makes my point. I haven’t argued one way or another in this thread, just bringing to light the other side. ** Many non-denom, Evangelical, etc… don’t understand it’s a different religion. ** To all of us Christianity is the religion, and to us who grew up non-denom, etc. don’t/won’t understand. We see it as all Christians are all God’s children on an equal plane and that communion is when all of God’s children come together at His table.

It can be a real culture shock to be denied His table and learn how Catholics really feel about non-Catholics (your first line; you’re not less of a Christian, but you are less of a Christian) at first. How I was treated, I know it was for me, and that’s probably what the OP’s boyfriend is going through.

You know, growing up I remember hearing occasionally that Catholics weren’t really Christians (not in the way that other Protestant Christians are) as a derogatory thing toward Catholics. Heck I still hear it very occasionally when I encounter those reactionary street preachers outside conventions and places like Disneyland.

Obviously that message that Catholic’s aren’t Christians was and is wrong, and to be fair the number of people spouting it has been going down since Vatican II from what I can figure. Likely this is due to the RCC’s ecumenical efforts with other Christians focusing on the similarities between Catholics and other Christians rather than the differences. However maybe too much effort has been put forth by the RCC in highlighting just the similarities, so much so that many non-Catholics are no longer aware that while Catholics are Christians, there are some very big differences between Catholics and most other Christians. One of the biggies obviously being the Eucharist. As you say your biggest issue you’ve encountered is that feeling you’re less of a Christian due to years of teaching you’ve had in your own faith. Now obviously the RCC shouldn’t undermine their own ecumenical efforts, and other churches shouldn’t revert to the old hate that used to be directed toward Catholics. But there has to be some way to balance ecumenism with also making more clear that while we’re all Christian, Catholics aren’t the same.

And indeed it’s not just Catholics. Over the years I’ve learned a bunch about various denominations that are all professed Christian denominations, but which have significant differences in theology or practice. However those differences are never focused on only the core similarities that most Christian denominations have are focused on and indeed I wouldn’t have learned about them unless I dug deeper. And the cynical side of me wonders if that’s not on purpose in this age, particularly in the west, of struggling churchmanship. That it’s easier to focus on what we share as similarities to get folks in the door and into the pews every Sunday and worry about the particular differences later.

 

[TC3033]

You know, growing up I remember hearing occasionally that Catholics weren’t really Christians (not in the way that other Protestant Christians are) as a derogatory thing toward Catholics. Heck I still hear it very occasionally when I encounter those reactionary street preachers outside conventions and places like Disneyland.

Honestly, that was a new one to me. CAF was the first place I heard that one.

Obviously that message that Catholic’s aren’t Christians was and is wrong, and to be fair the number of people spouting it has been going down since Vatican II from what I can figure. Likely this is due to the RCC’s ecumenical efforts with other Christians focusing on the similarities between Catholics and other Christians rather than the differences. However maybe too much effort has been put forth by the RCC in highlighting just the similarities, so much so that many non-Catholics are no longer aware that while Catholics are Christians, there are some very big differences between Catholics and most other Christians. One of the biggies obviously being the Eucharist. As you say your biggest issue you’ve encountered is that feeling you’re less of a Christian due to years of teaching you’ve had in your own faith. Now obviously the RCC shouldn’t undermine their own ecumenical efforts, and other churches shouldn’t revert to the old hate that used to be directed toward Catholics. But there has to be some way to balance ecumenism with also making more clear that while we’re all Christian, Catholics aren’t the same.

We just never paid attention to it, just viewed Catholics as our brothers and sisters who would be more than welcome inside our doors. Nothing more, nothing less. I had only been told once that I couldn’t take communion at Mass, why, well, because you’re not Catholic. Nothing more.

I think I needed to explain to some of my in-laws that I couldn’t, so it isn’t just non-Catholics that don’t understand the difference. It was in my first few years of marriage and the first few years after my oldest was born that the Parrish(s) that my family went too didn’t take to keenly to non-Catholics attending. Honestly that threw may for way more of a loop than communion (that was just the first couple times while we were dating).

And indeed it’s not just Catholics. Over the years I’ve learned a bunch about various denominations that are all professed Christian denominations, but which have significant differences in theology or practice. However those differences are never focused on only the core similarities that most Christian denominations have are focused on and indeed I wouldn’t have learned about them unless I dug deeper. And the cynical side of me wonders if that’s not on purpose in this age, particularly in the west, of struggling churchmanship. That** it’s easier to focus on what we share as similarities to get folks in the door and into the pews every Sunday and worry about the particular differences later. **

Who knows. IMHO, I think today’s day and age of the mixed marriage becoming more common there is less focus on the differences (in some places).

 

[Padres1969]

Honestly, that was a new one to me. CAF was the first place I heard that one.

You didn’t grow up Catholic . Ran into it more than once growing up. Particularly when I’d be engaged with other kids who weren’t going to Catholic school who were of other faiths whose parents weren’t particularly fond of the RCC. What the parents believed clearly rubbed off on their kids. Ran into it even more as an idea that’s out there rather than a personal experience in college.

We just never paid attention to it, just viewed Catholics as our brothers and sisters who would be more than welcome inside our doors. Nothing more, nothing less. I had only been told once that I couldn’t take communion at Mass, why, well, because you’re not Catholic. Nothing more.

I think I needed to explain to some of my in-laws that I couldn’t, so it isn’t just non-Catholics that don’t understand the difference. It was in my first few years of marriage and the first few years after my oldest was born that the Parrish(s) that my family went too didn’t take to keenly to non-Catholics attending. Honestly that threw may for way more of a loop than communion (that was just the first couple times while we were dating).

I agree that it’s both Catholics and non-Catholics these days that don’t totally understand the differences, or even that there are differences. I mean my own education in the RCC did not go out of its way to really focus on any of the differences between other Christians and ourselves. I mean for example we knew the Episcopal Church across the street from our church/school wasn’t Catholic, but beyond that . We were never really explained what that meant except for maybe a mention that, “they don’t follow the pope.” But nothing more in depth was really ever explained, we were just told they were Christians, we are Christians, and Christians believe X, Y, Z… I didn’t even learn that if they’d come across the street to our church’s mass that they’d be unable to receive until I was in something like 5th or 6th grade and was absentmindedly reading the first page of the Roman Rite missal in church.

Who knows. IMHO, I think today’s day and age of the mixed marriage becoming more common there is less focus on the differences (in some places).

It’s a good theory. Focusing on the similarities is also a way to indirectly lessen distrust or even hate so it’s not a bad thing. But it can have some unintended side effects too. As you’ve discovered.

 

[PJM]

I’ll answer briefly since you asked but this thread is not about me so I will limit my answer to this one. But for the same reason that I believe the reasons come down to for anyone else who is not faithful. Irregardless of how learned one may be. It still comes down to lack of the required faith, beliefs, and views that are necessary in order to be. CAF actually has helped me confirm this. And even though the Catholic Church claims me as Catholic, if I didn’t use the adjective, I would be accused of causing confusion. None of which though should be misconstrued however as lacking faith or belief or views of course.

So then my friend *; BUT am I to understand your reason is that TRUTH need NOT be singular per defined issue:shrug:

Such is a too common position these days which I fins fascinating

Easter Blessings,

Patrick*

 

[utah_rose]

This Pastor isassuming a GREAT responsibility. Catholic Holy Communion as a RULE is not to be refused to anyone that presents themselves for Holy Communion; UNLESS the pastor has INFORMATION we may not have; such as a very public politician who PUBLICLY supports abortion; in which case that politician can be denied.

Or if someone presents themselves OBVIOUSLY not prepared to worthy our God, such as a drunk.

As for the improper holding of one’s hands to receive Jesus; this is a matter of catechesis; and OUGHT to be dealt with on an individual basis; NOT subject to refusal by the priest unless he had TRIED to correct the action previously.

The Priest IS responsible for the Souls of his parishioners, but ALSO for their RIGHT Faith-formation. So as stated, priest are NOT perfect, BUT the Church does go out of Her way to offer them guidance

We however are NOT to be judgmental; ONLY God has all of the facts. Just offer up a prayer for them. And certainly do not gossip…

THANKS for your testimony

Easter Blessings,

PJM

I was very interested in this as I’ve never heard of a bishop saying what you can do with your hands! As far as the Our Father is concerned, some of us attended a Bible Class last year and were told NOT to be holding pur hands up as this should be only a priest that does this. Some people hold hands but we were also told it’s better to just hold our hands together pointed toward the tabernacle. Some of us now also receive Communion on our tongue instead of the hands, and I’ve never seen a priest turn us away for that. I’ve also seen some people genuflect first . As someone who grew up in Cleveland some 70 years ago, never knew a bishop during that time that requested anything in a Mass.

 

[commenter]

Originally Posted by Padres1969 View Post
And indeed it’s not just Catholics. Over the years I’ve learned a bunch about various denominations that are all professed Christian denominations, but which have significant differences in theology or practice. However those differences are never focused on only the core similarities that most Christian denominations have are focused on and indeed I wouldn’t have learned about them unless I dug deeper. And the cynical side of me wonders if that’s not on purpose in this age, particularly in the west, of struggling churchmanship. That it’s easier to focus on what we share as similarities to** get folks in the door **and into the pews every Sunday and worry about the particular differences later. [end quote]
I remember the slogan “Not to decide, is to decide”. What I see happening in both Protestant and some Catholic parishes is making evangelism, just “getting them in the door”. The extreme emphasis on meeting social needs, psychological needs, and “spiritual needs” means omitting doctrine, especially anything having to do with conversion.

It is a kind of spiritual pride to assume that just allowing people to sit in your building frequently will help them.

 

[Memaw]

Agree (and my bad if I came off a bit coarse earlier, bad day) on most points. The Eucharist does have a significantly different character in the Catholic Church, but that doesn’t mean all Catholics treat it as so, which I think can add to any confusion.

Only if you let it. Sometimes we can stay confused because we put the emphases on the wrong people. Learn what the Church teaches, not what some people do! God Bless, Memaw

 

[TC3033]

Only if you let it. Sometimes we can stay confused because we put the emphases on the wrong people. Learn what the Church teaches, not what some people do! God Bless, Memaw

My point is when a Catholic brings a non-Catholic to Mass, the non-Catholic is going to go to their Catholic friend, loved one, etc… for that education. If they don’t know, in many cases, that will only add to the confusion.

 

[Reuben_J]

You’re bolded kind of makes my point. I haven’t argued one way or another in this thread, just bringing to light the other side. Many non-denom, Evangelical, etc… don’t understand it’s a different religion. To all of us Christianity is the religion, and to us who grew up non-denom, etc. don’t/won’t understand. We see it as all Christians are all God’s children on an equal plane and that communion is when all of God’s children come together at His table.

It can be a real culture shock to be denied His table and learn how Catholics really feel about non-Catholics (your first line; you’re not less of a Christian, but you are less of a Christian) at first. How I was treated, I know it was for me, and that’s probably what the OP’s boyfriend is going through.

OP can’t expect this feeling to change overnight. It’s basically telling her boyfriend that his belief system is incorrect, wrong, and that (correct me if I’m wrong) we aren’t all part of God’s family. That is why I continue to bring up showing some compassion and understanding of his side.

Everyone here keeps saying that the boyfriend needs to do this, or he needs to do that. He does, but it would be nice to find a way for the OP to come down this two way street to meet him. It would go a long way if she cares about him. If not, then she can just pitch the advice.

What else would be sweet…if the OP actually came back .

Okay I understand you and where you are coming from.

Not sure what you mean by on ‘an equal plane’ but I guess your religion does not differentiate the different denominations and that they are all equal. I think that is a good concept and I commend it.

However, it is good to try to understand other religions, if anything maybe just for the sake of information. Ignorance can bring problem sometimes, like embarrassment. If you attend a Catholic mass and thought you may want to speak the priest while he is presiding and you come up to the altar and enter the sanctuary, it can be very disruptive to them.

I am not familiar with non-Catholic Christian religions as I am a cradle Catholic and do not discuss religion with them. Of course as a Catholic, I see them as someone who has different belief than mine. I would not go to their worship but if I should for one reason or another, I would be cautious not to make assumption of what they are doing.

God bless.

 

[TC3033]

Not sure what you mean by on ‘an equal plane’ but I guess your religion** does not differentiate the different denominations **and that they are all equal. I think that is a good concept and I commend it.

Correct. I mean that we (general we, as there are always some outliers that don’t) don’t see Catholic, Lutheran, etc. We see Christians.

However, it is good to try to understand other religions, if anything maybe just for the sake of information. Ignorance can bring problem sometimes, like embarrassment. If you attend a Catholic mass and thought you may want to speak the priest while he is presiding and you come up to the altar and enter the sanctuary, it can be very disruptive to them.

Like I said to Memaw, many times we’re attend with other Catholic family and friends and look to them for guidance. Sometimes they can’t even answer our questions/explain what’s going on or why they do what they do.

I’m not sure why using an example of disruption service is even being used. Who does that anyway?

I am not familiar with non-Catholic Christian religions as I am a cradle Catholic and do not discuss religion with them. Of course as a Catholic, **I see them as someone who has different belief than mine. I would not go to their worship but if I should for one reason or another, I would be cautious not to make assumption of what they are doing. **

And that’s where the confusion can lie from the non-Catholic (in this case non-denom) they don’t understand/see Catholicism as different and my not have been properly prepared for Mass by the OP. We may never know though as the OP may never come back. Like I said in my case, my in-laws were taken back when I didn’t receive at Mass with them the first time. They didn’t (and really still don’t) understand that I’m not supposed to. I’ve been told to just go before.

 

[Reuben_J]

Correct. I mean that we (general we, as there are always some outliers that don’t) don’t see Catholic, Lutheran, etc. We see Christians.

Like I said to Memaw, many times we’re attend with other Catholic family and friends and look to them for guidance. Sometimes they can’t even answer our questions/explain what’s going on or why they do what they do.

If you try to speak to them during the mass, they may be seemed to be unfriendly. Some may be quite irritated to be talked to or having people talking among themselves while the mass is going on. Maybe if you identify yourself as a non-Catholic, then perhaps they would understand.

I’m not sure why using an example of disruption service is even being used. Who does that anyway?

I have not seen anybody would go up to a priest in the sanctuary while the mass is going on. However, I saw in Protestant worship, not sure which one, people could go up to the stage to dance or raise their hand in prayers. In Catholicism, the sanctuary, that is where the altar is, is out of bound for the congregation unless they are involved in the liturgy. So I thought, if you do not know what a mass is, it is certainly not like the worship that you usually have in your church. So it is good to find out first the do’s and the don’ts during the mass.

And that’s where the confusion can lie from the non-Catholic (in this case non-denom) they don’t understand/see Catholicism as different and my not have been properly prepared for Mass by the OP. We may never know though as the OP may never come back. Like I said in my case, my in-laws were taken back when I didn’t receive at Mass with them the first time. They didn’t (and really still don’t) understand that I’m not supposed to. I’ve been told to just go before.

I see it is quite a predicament there. I don’t know what to say because personally I have not encountered such problem with non-Catholics in a mass. My daughter once brought her boyfriend to the mass with us when he was visiting, and he said he liked it. There was no problem there.

 

[TC3033]

If you try to speak to them during the mass, they may be seemed to be unfriendly. Some may be quite irritated to be talked to or having people talking among themselves while the mass is going on. Maybe if you identify yourself as a non-Catholic, then perhaps they would understand.

I meant before and after, not during. I mean that some Catholics can have a hard time even telling a non-Catholic what to expect before going. My apologies for confusion.

I have not seen anybody would go up to a priest in the sanctuary while the mass is going on. However, I saw in Protestant worship, not sure which one, people could go up to the stage to dance or raise their hand in prayers. In Catholicism, the sanctuary, that is where the altar is, is out of bound for the congregation unless they are involved in the liturgy. So I thought, if you do not know what a mass is, it is certainly not like the worship that you usually have in your church. So it is good to find out first the do’s and the don’ts during the mass.

Kind of making my point again and what I stated above. We’re going to ask who we’re going with what the do’s and don’ts are, and sometimes they can’t even explain it (or they don’t tell us before hand). Like I said, I’ve been told to just go up.

 

[PJM]

After listening to what many non-Catholics said while attending Catholic mass, I can understand how you feel. If anything, it only highlighted our differences and that’s the reality.

From Catholic standpoint, you are not less of a Christian as a person because you can be a good person, a good Christian, but your belief, yes, it does not have the fullness of truth. The fact that you are excluded from receiving Holy Communion, in a way very much highlight this.

As I said to the OP in my post, there is nothing much that can be done here to make you feel better as far as the mass is concerned. It would be a point of difference. The only thing for you would be to accept the mass as it is – that you are not going to agree with it; it is exclusively a Catholic worship. And thus should you go for a Catholic mass together with family members who are Catholics, remember that you are attending a worship which is nothing according to your set of belief. I think that would help – knowing that you are going to a liturgy of a different religion.

The OP’s boyfriend has to come to term that Catholic mass is different from his set belief and then start from there. There is no two ways about it.

God bless.

Here’a a different perspective

For non-Catholics attending Catholic Mass & being unable to receive Communion with us

[1] For anyone to receive Catholic Holy Communion; JESUS who is God is any manner that is unworthy of this Grace; this GIFT is a blasphemy

[2] Whether it is lack of belief that it REALLY is GOD in our midst; or perhaps another serious condition, the compulsion to participate is often driven either by pride or greed. BOTH which might hi-light a deficiency of moral character; and therefore creating a “state” unworthy of actually receiving Christ where a sense of “personal-loss”, due to not “participating”: is thought to be able to trump the Moral Good. These self-imposed conditions impose a situation that under different circumstances might have been avoided, or at least better understood.

[3] The necessary exclusion for non-Catholics from Holy Communion flows from there prior worship-experiences that STRESS fellowship. … Not expecting less from Catholic Mass which is Divine Worship; where the reality of God’s actual Presence demands that GOD; not us, be the focus; the Glorified, the Center of all that takes place in His Presence.

IF one is aware of a non-Catholic in their midst; we should reach out in the Sign of Peace to REALLY make such a person feel welcomed.

[4] God is worthy of all the Best we can offer to him; this certainly must include both an understanding and a True Faith belief in His Divine Presence to be worthily received:

It is NOT the RCC being demanding or ungracious; NO, it is the Reality of of the Divine Presence that demands, only those who have thee Faith, have the “right” & are able to give the honor due to God, by accepting His call, His Offer of Himself in Catholic Holy Communion.

Cor.11 Verses 23 to 30

[23] For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, [24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [25] In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. [27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. [28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. [29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. [30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.{Spiritual death implied here}

[5] Therefore it is incumbent upon those who invite a fellow Christian, a non-Catholic to Mass to share the “Do’s & Don’t” BEFORE Mass so that they can understand WHY they are not invited to participate i Holy Communion. Such action is an ACT of charity.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

 

[Sy_Noe]

So then my friend *; BUT am I to understand your reason is that TRUTH need NOT be singular per defined issue:shrug:

Such is a too common position these days which I fins fascinating

Easter Blessings,

Patrick*

Good to know then that you’re not trying to speak for me.

 

[Padres1969]

Originally Posted by Padres1969 View Post
And indeed it’s not just Catholics. Over the years I’ve learned a bunch about various denominations that are all professed Christian denominations, but which have significant differences in theology or practice. However those differences are never focused on only the core similarities that most Christian denominations have are focused on and indeed I wouldn’t have learned about them unless I dug deeper. And the cynical side of me wonders if that’s not on purpose in this age, particularly in the west, of struggling churchmanship. That it’s easier to focus on what we share as similarities to** get folks in the door **and into the pews every Sunday and worry about the particular differences later. [end quote]
I remember the slogan “Not to decide, is to decide”. What I see happening in both Protestant and some Catholic parishes is making evangelism, just “getting them in the door”. The extreme emphasis on meeting social needs, psychological needs, and “spiritual needs” means omitting doctrine, especially anything having to do with conversion.

It is a kind of spiritual pride to assume that just allowing people to sit in your building frequently will help them.

You’re not wrong. I mean some of the worst offenders in this regard are many of the so called “non-denominational” churches, particularly the large ones. They are great at getting people in the door, but their retention rates are abysmal long term. They focus so much on the frosting of the proverbial cake, that there’s little substance below it for people to really dig into. But they’re by no means the only offenders. Sometimes I wonder if this “in the door” mentality which has pervaded both Catholicism and non-Catholic Christianity in the last 50 years hasn’t helped speed the decline of Christianity.

 

[PJM]

Good to know then that you’re not trying to speak for me.

Nice dance around answering my question

DOES Truth have to be singular per defined issue:shrug:

Easter Blessings,

PJM