Non-Catholic Exclusion of the Eucharist

[Padres1969]

Is your wife also Catholic?

If so what grounds does her priest use to deny you the Eucharist?

 

[Padres1969]

Ah then yes you’re right. The Orthodox rule regarding who can receive is technically even more closed than the Catholic view. And it’s closed for much of the same reasoning that the RCC’s communion is closed in its way.

Makes me wonder if the Orthodox run into the same issue as often as it seems to come up for Catholics with regard to situations like the OPs where non-Orthodox attend mass and are confused/perturbed/put off by not being able to receive communion. Of if the Orthodox mass is so foreign from a Protestant perspective compared to the RCC and the Roman Rite that it just doesn’t come up.

 

[Reuben_J]

I meant before and after, not during. I mean that some Catholics can have a hard time even telling a non-Catholic what to expect before going. My apologies for confusion.

Okay. I get you know.

Kind of making my point again and what I stated above. We’re going to ask who we’re going with what the do’s and don’ts are, and sometimes they can’t even explain it (or they don’t tell us before hand). Like I said, I’ve been told to just go up.

You mean they do not bother to explain to you the do’s and the don’ts for non-Catholics during mass or they just do not know?

If it is the latter, I can only say, “Oh, my goodness…” I believe you but for a Catholic not to know this very simple, very basic principle of the mass, it is amazing that they go to the mass at all.

Well they can say something like this, which sometimes is announced at the beginning of the mass especially for wedding or funeral mass where many non-catholic friends and relatives are expected to attend. So it is not such a very difficult thing.

"During the mass, there may be standing and kneeling. For non-Catholics, you may not kneel but can remain sitting. The Holy Communion is for practicing Catholic only. For non-Catholic friends, they may remain sitting during the Communion."

You see, one does not have to be an all expert to know this. That is why it is just incredible a Catholic not to know this and as a result really did a disservice to their non-Catholic friends.

 

[Reuben_J]

Here’a a different perspective

For non-Catholics attending Catholic Mass & being unable to receive Communion with us

[1] For anyone to receive Catholic Holy Communion; JESUS who is God is any manner that is unworthy of this Grace; this GIFT is a blasphemy

[2] Whether it is lack of belief that it REALLY is GOD in our midst; or perhaps another serious condition, the compulsion to participate is often driven either by pride or greed. BOTH which might hi-light a deficiency of moral character; and therefore creating a “state” unworthy of actually receiving Christ where a sense of “personal-loss”, due to not “participating”: is thought to be able to trump the Moral Good. These self-imposed conditions impose a situation that under different circumstances might have been avoided, or at least better understood.

[3] The necessary exclusion for non-Catholics from Holy Communion flows from there prior worship-experiences that STRESS fellowship. … Not expecting less from Catholic Mass which is Divine Worship; where the reality of God’s actual Presence demands that GOD; not us, be the focus; the Glorified, the Center of all that takes place in His Presence.

IF one is aware of a non-Catholic in their midst; we should reach out in the Sign of Peace to REALLY make such a person feel welcomed.

[4] God is worthy of all the Best we can offer to him; this certainly must include both an understanding and a True Faith belief in His Divine Presence to be worthily received:

It is NOT the RCC being demanding or ungracious; NO, it is the Reality of of the Divine Presence that demands, only those who have thee Faith, have the “right” & are able to give the honor due to God, by accepting His call, His Offer of Himself in Catholic Holy Communion.

Cor.11 Verses 23 to 30

[23] For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, [24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [25] In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. [27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. [28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. [29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. [30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.{Spiritual death implied here}

[5] Therefore it is incumbent upon those who invite a fellow Christian, a non-Catholic to Mass to share the “Do’s & Don’t” BEFORE Mass so that they can understand WHY they are not invited to participate i Holy Communion. Such action is an ACT of charity.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

Thanks bro Patrick. Beautiful.

Hope you had a beautiful Easter too, as did mine.

God bless.

Reuben

 

[TC3033]

Okay. I get you know.

You mean they do not bother to explain to you the do’s and the don’ts for non-Catholics during mass or they*** just do not know***?

If it is the latter, I can only say, “Oh, my goodness…” I believe you but for a Catholic not to know this very simple, very basic principle of the mass, it is amazing that they go to the mass at all.

Well they can say something like this, which sometimes is announced at the beginning of the mass especially for wedding or funeral mass where many non-catholic friends and relatives are expected to attend. So it is not such a very difficult thing.

"During the mass, there may be standing and kneeling. For non-Catholics, you may not kneel but can remain sitting. The Holy Communion is for practicing Catholic only. For non-Catholic friends, they may remain sitting during the Communion."

You see, one does not have to be an all expert to know this. That is why it is just incredible a Catholic not to know this and as a result really did a disservice to their non-Catholic friends.

From what I remember, they didn’t really know.

 

[TC3033]

Here’a a different perspective

For non-Catholics attending Catholic Mass & being unable to receive Communion with us

[1] For anyone to receive Catholic Holy Communion; JESUS who is God is any manner that is unworthy of this Grace; this GIFT is a blasphemy

[2] Whether it is lack of belief that it REALLY is GOD in our midst; or perhaps another serious condition, the compulsion to participate is ***often driven either by pride or greed. ***BOTH which might hi-light a deficiency of moral character; and therefore creating a “state” unworthy of actually receiving Christ where a sense of “personal-loss”, due to not “participating”: is thought to be able to trump the Moral Good. These self-imposed conditions impose a situation that under different circumstances might have been avoided, or at least better understood.

[3] The necessary exclusion for non-Catholics from Holy Communion flows from there prior worship-experiences that STRESS fellowship. … Not expecting less from Catholic Mass which is Divine Worship; where the reality of God’s actual Presence demands that GOD; not us, be the focus; the Glorified, the Center of all that takes place in His Presence.

IF one is aware of a non-Catholic in their midst; we should reach out in the Sign of Peace to REALLY make such a person feel welcomed.

[4] God is worthy of all the Best we can offer to him; this certainly must include both an understanding and a True Faith belief in His Divine Presence to be worthily received:

It is NOT the RCC being demanding or ungracious; NO, it is the Reality of of the Divine Presence that demands, only those who have thee Faith, have the “right” & are able to give the honor due to God, by accepting His call, His Offer of Himself in Catholic Holy Communion.

Cor.11 Verses 23 to 30

[23] For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, [24] and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” [25] In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. [27] Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. [28] Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. [29] For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. [30] That is why many of you are weak and ill, and some have died.{Spiritual death implied here}

[5] Therefore it is incumbent upon those who invite a fellow Christian, a non-Catholic to Mass to share the “Do’s & Don’t” BEFORE Mass so that they can understand WHY they are not invited to participate i Holy Communion. Such action is an ACT of charity.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

I need to disagree with my two highlighted points.

1. Compulsion to participate normally isn’t driven by pride or greed. It’s a misunderstanding normally driven by the non-Catholic not knowing they’re not supposed to and then finding out at the last minute that they can’t and the person telling them they can’t many times can’t really explain why.
2. To say the actual worship-experiences stress fellowship definitely highlights misunderstandings. Yes, we do stress fellowship (and a lot of times this is why we believe many times that us non-Catholics aren’t welcome to Mass), but the worship itself isn’t fellowship centric.

 

[PJM]

Thanks bro Patrick. Beautiful.

Hope you had a beautiful Easter too, as did mine.

God bless.

Reuben

Yes we did, delighted you did too:thumbsup:

Thanks for the encouragement.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

 

[PJM]

I need to disagree with my two highlighted points.

1. Compulsion to participate normally isn’t driven by pride or greed. It’s a misunderstanding normally driven by the non-Catholic not knowing they’re not supposed to and then finding out at the last minute that they can’t and the person telling them they can’t many times can’t really explain why.
2. To say the actual worship-experiences stress fellowship definitely highlights misunderstandings. Yes, we do stress fellowship (and a lot of times this is why we believe many times that us non-Catholics aren’t welcome to Mass), but the worship itself isn’t fellowship centric.

Thank you! I truly respect your views

I still hold to my expressed views for those who FEEL excluded, my comments are valid. I Do agree that those who know and understand the reason for exclusion are NOT to be included in my comments.

And yes, I do agree that P’s DO worship God in their services, BUT also DO have a much more evident emphasis on Fellowship during their services. than is evident in Catholic Masses.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

 

[TC3033]

Thank you! I truly respect your views

I still hold to my expressed views for those who FEEL excluded, my comments are valid. I Do agree that those who know and understand the reason for exclusion are NOT to be included in my comments.

And yes, I do agree that P’s DO worship God in their services, BUT also DO have a much more evident emphasis on Fellowship during their services. than is evident in Catholic Masses.

Easter Blessings,

Patrick

I FEEL excluded because I grew up in a community of inclusion. Like I said a dozen times in this thread, it’s possible that this FEELING may never go away from some because it flies in the face of what they are taught. That doesn’t mean we don’t accept it.

I guess we’ve attended different services then. I’ve never been to one where fellowship is the emphasis during the service. 100% right up to, and 100% right after and 100% during the week (which is much different than the Catholic faith) but never the emphasis during.

 

[Padres1969]

From what I remember, they didn’t really know.

Yeah I’m actually amazed for the opposite reason, that there are Catholics that don’t know a large number of their fellow self professing Catholics are largely clueless (either through ignorance or willful disobedience), to the RCC’s mandates regarding the who and when of Eucharistic reception. I mean the number of people going to confession every week/month/year compared to the number of people going up for communion should be a dead giveaway that a great many Catholics aren’t following the key RCC mandate for Eucharistic reception in a state of grace.

 

[mattp0625]

Yeah I’m actually amazed for the opposite reason, that there are Catholics that don’t know a large number of their fellow self professing Catholics are largely clueless (either through ignorance or willful disobedience), to the RCC’s mandates regarding the who and when of Eucharistic reception. I mean the number of people going to confession every week/month/year compared to the number of people going up for communion should be a dead giveaway that a great many Catholics aren’t following the key RCC mandate for Eucharistic reception in a state of grace.

It’s true this is happening. Secularization of society has had an impact. It started in the 60s and 70s (as with many things).

Even the seminaries are reverting to more orthodox Catholicism to combat this

It’s not dead. One can still find people who practice in earnest and places of holiness.

 

[TC3033]

Yeah I’m actually amazed for the opposite reason, that there are Catholics that don’t know a large number of their fellow self professing Catholics are largely clueless (either through ignorance or willful disobedience), to the RCC’s mandates regarding the who and when of Eucharistic reception. I mean the number of people going to confession every week/month/year compared to the number of people going up for communion should be a dead giveaway that a great many Catholics aren’t following the key RCC mandate for Eucharistic reception in a state of grace.

My experience it was ignorance. I love my in-laws to death, but I’ll gurantee none of my BIL’s or SIL’s paid a lick of attention on Wed nights.

 

[Reuben_J]

From what I remember, they didn’t really know.

Okay. So that how it was. It makes sense then.

Personally for me, I just cannot imagine this ignorance coming from Catholics themselves. I would not say that it did not happen, but for a Catholic to hear this, it is just unbelievable.

It would be a rare anomaly and perhaps to show how far Catholics in certain places have become very unfamiliar with their own faith.

It is not about understanding the theology or even explanation behind the Holy Communion, that could be daunting for some, but a practicing Catholic would know who should and should not receive Holy Communion.

In any case, a Catholic should not receive the Holy Communion, without knowing what it entails. He/she should go for Sunday classes or some Catechism first.

Thus being born a Catholic is not an automatic path to Holy Communion. So a Catholic’s first Communion can be a memorable occasion for him/her after going through a period of training/course/teaching.

Reuben

 

[Padres1969]

Okay. So that how it was. It makes sense then.

Personally for me, I just cannot imagine this ignorance coming from Catholics themselves. I would not say that it did not happen, but for a Catholic to hear this, it is just unbelievable.

It would be a rare anomaly and perhaps to show how far Catholics in certain places have become very unfamiliar with their own faith.

It is not about understanding the theology or even explanation behind the Holy Communion, that could be daunting for some, but a practicing Catholic would know who should and should not receive Holy Communion.

In any case, a Catholic should not receive the Holy Communion, without knowing what it entails. He/she should go for Sunday classes or some Catechism first.

Thus being born a Catholic is not an automatic path to Holy Communion. So a Catholic’s first Communion can be a memorable occasion for him/her after going through a period of training/course/teaching.

Reuben

You’d be surprised. My mom and sister still receive on the very rare occasions they’re in church even though neither has been to confession in decades. Both went to Catholic grammar school and high school and were well catechized for their day.

 

[Reuben_J]

You’d be surprised. My mom and sister still receive on the very rare occasions they’re in church even though neither has been to confession in decades. Both went to Catholic grammar school and high school and were well catechized for their day.

I am not surprised already.

Guess it has become more of a cultural thing to go to mass and go for Holy Communion. So there are such Catholics and what can we say. It is definitely not right. Receiving Communion has become very trivial where its procedure is not adhered to anymore.

In some cases, such teaching should be repeated in the homilies to remind these category of Catholics, and priests should touch on this issue once in a while. The Holy Thursday mass is really an appropriate time to do this which is a celebration of the institution of the Holy Eucharist (the Last Super).

God bless.

 

[Memaw]

I would never tell a Christian of a denomination to “just go up” and receive.

At my wedding, my dad received. And when my Lutheran sister and family visited with us, she asked right then, if she should receive. I said its up to you. But this was because I’m sure I’ve expressed that only members are to receive. And at a certain point, I’m not gonna police others.

I’ve discussed the Catholic faith and doctrines with all of my family. It’s in their hands.

As for Catholics who don’t go to confession anymore, it is too bad. They are missing out. Does it affect the whole Church? Definitely. We all affect the whole Church, sometimes positively, sometimes negatively.

We discussed what to do about others in the Church who are living/acting wrong. Jesus tells us to let the weeds grow together with the wheat. Paul says to cast out the wicked one from among us. I think we need to do what we are compelled to do as individuals. If we are directly confronted by someone and their wrong behavior, we should try to compell them to do what is right. If it is met with resistence, it may take stronger action. But it all depends on the severity of the wrong behavior, whether they belong to your own Communion or not, and whether you have a larger thing in your own eye.

When your sister asked if she should receive, you should have said no and explained why. It is NOT up to her or you, it’s up to the Church and the Church says no. That is not policing, it is telling the TRUTH. The Church is protecting the Body Of Christ as well as the person who is not fully prepared to receive HIM. The Bible warns us against receiving the Body and Blood of Our Lord unworthily. We are supposed to be able to give a reason for what we believe and that was a very important moment for you to do so. Your misinterpreting scripture on that. Compel is not the right word, instruct would be a better one. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Memaw]

You’d be surprised. My mom and sister still receive on the very rare occasions they’re in church even though neither has been to confession in decades. Both went to Catholic grammar school and high school and were well catechized for their day.

Show them 1 Cor 11:23-29. Evidently they forgot what they were taught. You should tell them for their sake. I can’t imagine a Catholic not knowing they cannot receive Holy Communion in the state of Mortal sin. Missing Mass is just that. I only went to the 3rd grade to a Catholic School and I knew better than that. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Tommy999]

I FEEL excluded because I grew up in a community of inclusion. Like I said a dozen times in this thread, it’s possible that this FEELING may never go away from some because it flies in the face of what they are taught. That doesn’t mean we don’t accept it.

I guess we’ve attended different services then. I’ve never been to one where fellowship is the emphasis during the service. 100% right up to, and 100% right after and 100% during the week (which is much different than the Catholic faith) but never the emphasis during.

I agree with this, TC3033. That has been my experience as well. Lots of fellowship before and especially after service at my church, but it’s quiet and respectful during the worship service except for when you share the peace and shake hands with those around you, which I believe even most Catholics do. There are a few older people who sometimes sit by us who are a bit hard of hearing who sometimes talk in a loud voice during the service and say, “What did he just say?” or “Do you want a mint?” and stuff like that but it is not the norm.

By the way, when I was a teenager back in the mid-70’s, I attended Mass one time with a Catholic high school buddy and he told me I could take communion with him there provided I believed that the bread turned into the body of Christ and that the wine turned into the real blood of Christ. Being a sincere new Christian at the time, I truly believed in my heart what he told me was true and I loved the Lord, so I went up with him and partook.

Since then, I’ve learned that is not appropriate for a Non-Catholic to do that and I have not done so since on the few occasions I’ve gone to Mass because I’ve learned that you must be a Catholic who is in a state of grace. I respect that and abide by it. I just hope I did not sin against God by doing it when I was a teenager. As I’ve become more familiar with Catholicism, I’ve asked the Lord to forgive me for going up with my buddy as a teenager. I wish he had explained it to me better at the time and I would’ve remained in the pew.

 

[rcwitness]

When your sister asked if she should receive, you should have said no and explained why. It is NOT up to her or you, it’s up to the Church and the Church says no. That is not policing, it is telling the TRUTH…Your misinterpreting scripture on that.

I guess my point was that I had already shared this about the Catholic faith. My family is Christian, and they have been fairly positive about my Catholic faith. I’ve gotten into conversations with them all about some of these topics. I don’t specifically remember discussing “closed Communion” with her, but I was pretty sure, especially, at the time, that I conveyed it to her. That is, that Confirmed Catholics only, are to receive.

I’m not saying it was the boldest thing to do. But it was something I decided not to battle with her about. And saying, “it’s up to you” was leaving it to her decision.

I am not arguing with your position. It’s right. But I have “instructed” them as much as I could. At a point, you have to just focus on other matters. I don’t believe that she committed a Mortal Sin by receiving, though. So if that is what you are implying, we have strong disagreements! If you believe she would be growing in His grace better for refraining, then we agree. Because I was hoping she would listen to the Holy Spirit about the matter.

It was a quick reply I had to give her from an unexpected question. Maybe I felt she would have not accepted it well, and it is better to receive with ignorance than not receive with a stubborn heart?

Again, I’m not saying you are wrong, and I did the right thing. But it isn’t so simple. I am in a relationship with my family that is for the long road. And I have and do stand by what the Church Teaches. I simply left that moment into her hands, as opposed to setting her at the stumbling block.

 

[PJM]

I FEEL excluded because I grew up in a community of inclusion. Like I said a dozen times in this thread, it’s possible that this FEELING may never go away from some because it flies in the face of what they are taught. That doesn’t mean we don’t accept it.

I guess we’ve attended different services then. I’ve never been to one where fellowship is the emphasis during the service. 100% right up to, and 100% right after and 100% during the week (which is much different than the Catholic faith) but never the emphasis during.

Thank you