Non Catholic Interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19

[PRmerger]

BTW, have you read their mind to know what they believe?

One need not read anyone’s mind to know what they believe.

I certainly have not read St. Paul’s mind but I am quite clear about his beliefs.

 

[Dokimas]

Doki,

I do not mean to gang up on you,but you did mention ‘essential’ beliefs and honestly I too have not read them here. If you did provide a list or simply mentioned a few,may you please post them?

Peace brother!

BTW: I am not going to attack your ‘essential’ beliefs, I just want to understand it from your Christian tradition…that is all…I promise.

Nicea, I’m not sure why you’ve changed you mode of communication with me, but thank you. I appreciate the respect you’ve shown me over the last several weeks. Thanks again.

Some of what I believe are essentials are found in my post to Elvis about what a true believer is. Let me see if I can find that response.

[SIGN]Object of a true believer’s faith: Jesus, God the Son, Creator of the Universe, died for our sins, raised from the dead, lives forevermore.

Response of a true believer: follow Jesus, be as obedient as one can, grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus.[/SIGN]

 

[Dokimas]

This is a man-made tradition not supported by Scripture.

[SIGN1]Scripture does NOT say that there are essential beliefs that make us true believers.[/SIGN1]

Well, you are right about this one, Dokimas.

And it has as much weight as if you said, “In my opinion brides ought to wear red instead of white.”

In your opinion, can a person who believes Jesus never existed be in Heaven?

 

[Dokimas]

No.

I already discussed that there are many different kinds of faith.

Then what was your point about demons believing in the context of the post you were responding to?

 

[Dokimas]

I want to know what verses in Scripture tell you it’s an essential belief.

Are we going to play this game again? Aren’t we past that, PR?

 

[Dokimas]

One need not read anyone’s mind to know what they believe.

I certainly have not read St. Paul’s mind but I am quite clear about his beliefs.

It’s easy to know what an honest man believes because you can take them at their word.

I’m not sure Jim, Charles and Dave can be taken at their word.

BTW, God knows their hearts and unless I’m mistaken, they don’t believe those things. Of course Charles could have repented and given his life to Jesus. If that’s so, he’d be a good illustration of my point. If he has not repented and given his life to Jesus, again, he’d be a good illustration of my point and bad for Elvis’ point.

 

[Dokimas]

May I add something to my answer of my understanding of the essencials of the Faith?

Those essencials are from the human point of view. From God’s perspective, He sees the heart of a person. The heart is the issue for Him. That’s why I cringe when anyone say’s, ‘but God knows my heart’ as they try to explain why they did this or that.

 

[PRmerger]

Some of what I believe are essentials are found in my post to Elvis about what a true believer is. Let me see if I can find that response.

[SIGN]Object of a true believer’s faith: Jesus, God the Son, Creator of the Universe, died for our sins, raised from the dead, lives forevermore.

Response of a true believer: follow Jesus, be as obedient as one can, grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus.[/SIGN]

Those are man-made traditions, Dokimas, ***for Scripture does not say that those are essential beliefs. ***

 

[Dokimas]

Those are man-made traditions, Dokimas, ***for Scripture does not say that those are essential beliefs. ***

Can a person go to Heaven and believe Budah is the Creator, not Jesus?

 

[Dokimas]

Those are man-made traditions, Dokimas, ***for Scripture does not say that those are essential beliefs. ***

I’m thankful for your opinion.

 

[PRmerger]

May I add something to my answer of my understanding of the essencials of the Faith?

Those essencials are from the human point of view.

Exactly. Which is another way to say it’s a man-made belief not found in Scripture.

From God’s perspective, He sees the heart of a person. The heart is the issue for Him. That’s why I cringe when anyone say’s, ‘but God knows my heart’ as they try to explain why they did this or that.

I, too, cringe when someone says, “but God knows my heart”. It’s absolutely true that God judges our hearts but somehow the “God knows my heart” phrase implies this: I can do whatever I want as long as I believe in my heart that I’m a good person.

 

[PRmerger]

In your opinion, can a person who believes Jesus never existed be in Heaven?

If he dies and meets Jesus and rejects His Divine Marriage Proposal, then no, he cannot be in heaven.

If he dies and meets Jesus and says, “Yes! I want to be with YOU forever!” then, yes, he can be in heaven.

 

[PRmerger]

Then what was your point about demons believing in the context of the post you were responding to?

To refute the statement that all you have to do is believe in the Lord Jesus and your sins are washed away, you’re in a state of perfection and you’re destined for heaven upon your death.

Even the demons believe. And shudder.

Belief is not enough. Clearly.

 

[PRmerger]

Can a person go to Heaven and believe Budah is the Creator, not Jesus?

No.

 

[Dokimas]

Exactly. Which is another way to say it’s a man-made belief not found in Scripture.

I, too, cringe when someone says, “but God knows my heart”. It’s absolutely true that God judges our hearts but somehow the “God knows my heart” phrase implies this: I can do whatever I want as long as I believe in my heart that I’m a good person.

You haven’t answered my questions about beliefs and Heaven. Could you please give answer?

BTW, I think God gives us essentials in His Word for our point of view so our point of view, for self, can lead to true faith and real relationship with Him.

 

[Dokimas]

No.

Is there a verse you base that belief of yours upon?

 

[PRmerger]

I’m thankful for your opinion.

It’s not an opinion. It’s a fact.

Unless you can refute that statement and show, chapter and verse, where in Scripture it says that those are essential beliefs.

I say: Scripture says no where what are essential beliefs.

If you disagree,*** then show where it says this. ***

 

[Dokimas]

To refute the statement that all you have to do is believe in the Lord Jesus and your sins are washed away, you’re in a state of perfection and you’re destined for heaven upon your death.

Even the demons believe. And shudder.

Belief is not enough. Clearly.

Where did I say that?

I’m with Paul and James on this issue cuz the Holy Spirit used them to give us directives of essential things for real saving faith.

Don’t look now but you’ve just stated an ‘essential’ - belief alone doesn’t cut it. That’s very evangelical of you.

 

[PRmerger]

Is there a verse you base that belief of yours upon?

I don’t base all of my beliefs on a verse in Scripture.

I base it on God’s Word, revealed to us through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

 

[Dokimas]

I don’t base all of my beliefs on a verse in Scripture.

I base it on God’s Word, revealed to us through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition.

So whether from the Bible or ST, there are essentials. One is that you can’t get to Heaven if you believe anyone but Jesus is the Creator. Now we’re getting somewhere. Good.