Non Catholic Interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19

[Dokimas]

And what makes you believe you already have a one way ticket to heaven?

1 John 5:
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[PRmerger]

Those you speak about weren’t convicted of drunkedness but the crimes they did while drunk. I’m guessing the point of Beleevr was that drunkeness alone is not a crime. However God calls it sin, IMO.

No one here has said that drinking and carousing is a crime.

 

[Dokimas]

**Boy - you *certainly ***change your theological viewpoints pretty easily.
Earlier, you told me that ALL have sinned and now you’re saying that there may be exceptions. BUT YOU’RE limiting God to which exceptions he should allow.

As for Ezekiel 44 that is a prpophecy about Mary’s perpetual virginity and has nothing to do with her sinlessness.

My guess is that telling you he’d give you some latitude is NOT changing his position.

 

[Dokimas]

What’s so ludicrous about it? If we become perfect in God’s eyes through faith in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as the bible tells us over and over that it is not only possible but manditory. If Jesus sacrifice is truly enough to cover our sins, what is it that we must be purged of?

Eph 5:
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 **That he might sanctify and cleanse **it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

The church is people.

 

[Javl]

No, I am not SDA; and I did not totally misunderstand your post on purgatory. You were perfectly clear, it’s just that I don’t agree with it, that’s al! And I threw in the part about the Sabbath, because you affix yourself to Jewish customs, which may or may not have died on the Cross as well, beings as they were instituted in the Old Covenant! And why is the remark about the Jews not believing in Jesus so far off base? Not being in Christ, or beliving in Him would render these souls in the holding place hopelessly lost and disconnected!

Whatever the Jews believe is given them by God for they would not believe anything else. As for Jewish customs you forget that the origin of Christianity is Jewsh and Christianity is a continuation of Judaism. What you call customs is Sacred Tradition. As for present day Jews I gather you do not belive that they are still God’s Chosen People. He made a covenant with them which they have broken but He did not. He does not and can not go back on His word or promise(s). Whatever He has in store for them has not been revealed to us and is not ours to know. Also, read Paul’s letters concerning the Jews.

By the way, many Messianic Jews, who accept and believe in Jesus, still hold to their ethnic and cultural identity and still hold to Jewish customs. There is nothing wrong in this.

PAX DOMINI

 

[Dokimas]

What’s so ludicrous about it? If we become perfect in God’s eyes through faith in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as the bible tells us over and over that it is not only possible but manditory. If Jesus sacrifice is truly enough to cover our sins, what is it that we must be purged of?

Doen’t Paul tell us in Romans 7 that true believers have two natures unlike non-believers. One nature (the old one which is of the flesh) sins. The other nature is the new nature given to us by Jesus and this nature does not sin. Paul said in his flesh dwelled not good thing; he also said it was no longer him that sinned but sin that dwells within him.

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[Dokimas]

No one here has said that drinking and carousing is a crime.

That was my response to your statement:

[SIGN]Do you know how many of those in prison were impaired by alcohol when they committed a crime?[/SIGN]

 

[PRmerger]

That was my response to your statement:

[SIGN]Do you know how many of those in prison were impaired by alcohol when they committed a crime?[/SIGN]

Again, no one here is saying that drinking and carousing is a crime. :dts:

The above statement I made clearly shows that being impaired by alcohol is ***separate ***from committing a crime, eh?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Doen’t Paul tell us in Romans 7 that true believers have two natures unlike non-believers. One nature (the old one which is of the flesh) sins. The other nature is the new nature given to us by Jesus and this nature does not sin. Paul said in his flesh dwelled not good thing; he also said it was no longer him that sinned but sin that dwells within him.

14 ¶ For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

I think that you are right. But I think that we need to be very catious here. In no way is Paul saying that sin will not be imputed to us because we are in Christ. When we take on Christ, We take on His sinless nature and we CHOOSE not to sin BECAUSE we love Jesus. If we CHOOSE to sin that sinless nature is no longer sinless Right? so we need to repent and go through the justification process all over again.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Jim Dandy, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: everything I’ve posted on this topic, including the material from that tract, is in support of the Catholic interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19. Yes, of course, if it’s not infallibly defined one can never be absolutely certain it’s true. I hope you actually read the posts you are responding to, without any preconception that I would be trying to refute Catholic doctrine.

Pax, zdon

You state your affiliation as Anglican. I’m sorry I offended you.

Pax et bonum, Jim Dandy

 

[PRmerger]

If we CHOOSE to sin that sinless nature is no longer sinless Right? so we need to repent and go through the justification process all over again.

So what happens if we die after CHOOSING to sin, but before repenting? Like, let’s say we choose to steal a pack of gum. Then we die. In your paradigm do we go to hell or heaven?

 

[Jim_Dandy]

What’s so ludicrous about it? If we become perfect in God’s eyes through faith in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as the bible tells us over and over that it is not only possible but manditory. If Jesus sacrifice is truly enough to cover our sins, what is it that we must be purged of?

Is your interpretation of the Bible infallible? No? Then why should anyone accept it? You and thousands of other Protestants hold thousands of conflicting and competing interpretations. Which is true, if any? Except where you are in agreement with the teaching of the Catholic Church, It’s mere opinion.

 

[PRmerger]

Being perfect has nothing to do with how well you can type.

Well, yes and no.

Typing imperfectly is clearly an example that you are not how God intended you to be. God did not create you intending that you make this typing error:

I think that you are right. But I think that we need to be very -]catious/-] here…

That is an example that you are not perfect, even if you are a Christian. It’s not a sin to make a typing error, but it’s clearly an example that you’re NOT perfect. Not perfect enough for heaven, that’s for certain! (No disrespect intended.)

We become acceptable to God through nothing that we did. But PERFECT in the eyes of God, through FAITH in what He did.

Having FAITH is, of course, something that we DO.

 

[PRmerger]

What’s so ludicrous about it? If we become perfect in God’s eyes through faith in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus as the bible tells us over and over that it is not only possible but manditory. If Jesus sacrifice is truly enough to cover our sins, what is it that we must be purged of?

I find the “in God’s eyes” part peculiar. How can God see anything but that which is true? We can’t be perfect “in God’s eyes” unless we actually ARE perfect, right?

That is, God does not “see” us as perfect when we profess belief in Him, even if we actually aren’t. He does not do this. Nor can He do this. It’s against His nature to see that which isn’t true.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Well, yes and no.

Typing imperfectly is clearly an example that you are not how God intended you to be. God did not create you intending that you make this typing error:

You really going to play this silly game. Count me out.

That is an example that you are not perfect, even if you are a Christian. It’s not a sin to make a typing error, but it’s clearly an example that you’re NOT perfect. Not perfect enough for heaven, that’s for certain! (No disrespect intended.)

Wow!

Having FAITH is, of course, something that we DO.

Faith is a gift from God
Ephesians 2:8
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—

 

[PRmerger]

You really going to play this silly game. Count me out.

As you wish.

It’s an imperfect response, though.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I find the “in God’s eyes” part peculiar. How can God see anything but that which is true?

Are you saying that God cannot see us when we sin?

We can’t be perfect “in God’s eyes” unless we actually ARE perfect, right?

That’s right, and we are perfect IN GOD’S EYES when we accept the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. I don’t know are you playing with me PR?

2tIM.3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I guess the question for you PR is do you BELIEVE THIS.

That is, God does not “see” us as perfect when we profess belief in Him, even if we actually aren’t. He does not do this. Nor can He do this. It’s against His nature to see that which isn’t true.

See that’s just it PR. When we accept the perfect sacrifice of Jesus. He becomes our propitiation and it is true. We become PERFECT. Not by anything that we do but by what He did.

 

[PRmerger]

Are you saying that God cannot see us when we sin?

I don’t understand. I thought you don’t even believe you, a Christian, *do *sin.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

I don’t understand. I thought you don’t even believe you, a Christian, *do *sin.

I don’t get it PR. Do you really think it is appropriate for you to be playing these silly little games with the most important question that you will ever come across?

I asked you a quetion before.

2Tim.3
15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I guess the question for you PR is do you BELIEVE THIS.

Why don’t you answer it.

 

[PRmerger]

I guess the question for you PR is do you BELIEVE THIS.

Why don’t you answer it.

LOL!

I think, to be fair, I ought to ask you: why don’t YOU answer my question,here, as I asked it first.

(I’m pretty sure that post #426 gets priority over post #432, yes? )