Non-Catholic reactions to Pope Benedict's resignation.

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LisaA said:
Vatican II was fifty years ago while your statement indicated “various permutations” as if major changes in doctrine occurred regularly and recently.

I will admit we changed some wording in the Mass last year but it was to return to a more faithful translation of the original. No change in doctrine.

I’m anxious to know why you, Augustus24, recent member of CAF believe that you know more than all of the Cardinals and the Pope regarding what Catholic doctrine “should be?”
Why you, who do not claim to be a Catholic think that the Church “needs reform?”

Lisa
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Vatican II was fifty years ago while your statement indicated “various permutations” as if major changes in doctrine occurred regularly and recently.
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Yes it was, and for 50 years those dissenters like the ones I mentioned have been actively ignored or silenced by the powers that be. 50 years is pretty recent in church history reckoning.
I will admit we changed some wording in the Mass last year but it was to return to a more faithful translation of the original. No change in doctrine.
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Yes, I like the new translation better. But, would you like me to show you were there has been a distinct change in Catholic doctrine?
I’m anxious to know why you, Augustus24, recent member of CAF believe that you know more than all of the Cardinals and the Pope regarding what Catholic doctrine “should be?”
Why you, who do not claim to be a Catholic think that the Church “needs reform?”
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Yes of course. I think it needs reform because I have seen how Catholic rigidity on these issues have caused undue harm, and damage to people trying to live out the Catholic faith. A discipline or doctrine of the Church should never hurt someone or cause them damage in any way.
 
rbarcia said:
I really have no thought or opinion on the event itself. No significance to my life.

I find the quote interesting as he seems to be asking Mary to do more than intercede to Christ, but to actually assist in the selection. Much different than I hear people say her role is here in this forum. “We just ask her to pray for us like.”

From his resignation.

*And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers *with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff.

If the pope is leaving it to the care of the supreme pastor, why does Mary need to assist.
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If she’s interceding she is assisting is she not? Why would you pray for your friends if you honestly think you are providing no assistance at all to them?
 
exnihilo said:
First off I have great sympathy for my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church. For them the Pope is both the anchor and helmsman for their boat. Those are contrary analogies but both true I think. For my brothers and sisters they are not only experiencing the sorrow of a loss which accompanies any end of a papacy but also experiencing shock at resignation which is no doubt unusual.

I also feel sadness for Christendom. It seems to me that the Pope Benedict was a good Christian leader. In this time we seem to have a deficiency in good leadership. While so many churches are being led down a deadly path the Catholic Church has held steady to important moral truths. This may not be the result of one man, the Pope, but it is plainly true that he has been one of those who has helped maintained Truth in our day.

Since the Catholic Church does contain the largest number of Christians on the planet I pray for comfort for those in her who mourn and God’s guidance for those who select a new Bishop of Rome.
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Thank you for the kind word and thought. Even though you are not Catholic you share with us the immensity of this event. The Pope is one of the most learned Popes and is a great Christian.
 
Augustus24 said:
I like Pope Benedict’s books “Jesus Of Nazareth” etc.

I wish him and the Catholic Church well in this transition.

And I really hope they decide to elect a more progressive cardinal to the papacy.
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What do you mean by progressive?
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
More thoughts/questions:
  1. It seems to be a very humble thing to do, to give up the highest office within the Catholic Church. If so, should BPJPII be considered as one lacking humility while having many other wonderful qualities?
  2. Since it’s considered the Holy Spirit that guides the cardinals who elect a Pope, is a Pope resigning a rejection of the Holy Spirit? A rejection of God’s Will?
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re: #1. The media often urged Blessed JPII to resign because of his health and so that other more progressive Catholics could come to the fore. He wisely decided that the Church needed to see how to live with pain and suffering and to show the dignity of a man.

re: #2. Read Pope Benedict XVI’s statement. He prayed fervently about this decision.

Even though it grieves me it does not surprise me. If you had read his statements over the past few years you would realize that this thought has been there for a while.

He is in much pain every day and it is not getting better. I really started feeling concern for his health when he could no longer walk the aisle at Mass.
 
(name removed by moderator);10346450] The last Pope who was not already ordained at the time of his election came to the throne in1513 so I would not suggest anyone bet heavily on that possibility.
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Hi Jharek, the hi-lited words from your post re Jon, brings to mind the following thought:-

According to the book, “The Last Pope” by John Hogue, (published by Element Books Ltd 2000,) Benedict XVI was the penultimate pope (for what that’s worth). Personally, I view the prophesies of St Malachy as being somewhat in the same vein as those of Nostradamus. i.e. capable of being interpreted to suit ones’ paradigm. However, seeing that you have mixed feelings about that Bishop of Armagh what do you think about it (the statement in the book I mean)?

Protector
 
JonNC said:
Agree with my Lutheran siblings. Few popes have understood Lutheranism in the way Pope Benedict does. My prayers are with my Catholic friends in this time of transition, and I know the Spirit will guide the Cardinals in their decision.
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Agreed. We all should hold the Catholic Church in our prayers as it prepares for this transition in leadership. May God bless Benedict XVI as he enters into the next chapter in his service to our Lord.
 
october_baby said:
The majority of the BBC comments posts were callous and cruel. Still alot of hatred for
catholicism…
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What can one expect from an apostate secular society that, put in red neck language “ain’t got no couth”?
 
LilyM said:
I’d imagine being from the heartland and homeland of Lutheranism would be a help to him in that regard. Oddly enough Germans never AFAIK call themselves Lutherans, rather ‘Evangelische’ (Evangelical)
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When he was a professor at Tubingen he was colleagues with Heiko Oberman, perhaps the world’s leading scholar on Luther.
 
Augustus24 said:
Yes it was, and for 50 years those dissenters like the ones I mentioned have been actively ignored or silenced by the powers that be. 50 years is pretty recent in church history reckoning.

Yes, I like the new translation better. But, would you like me to show you were there has been a distinct change in Catholic doctrine?

Yes of course. I think it needs reform because I have seen how Catholic rigidity on these issues have caused undue harm, and damage to people trying to live out the Catholic faith. A discipline or doctrine of the Church should never hurt someone or cause them damage in any way.
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People are harmed by living out the Catholic faith? Actually I suggest they are harmed because they DONT live out their faith. They want to change it to suit their preferences, particularly with respect to sexuality.

The doctrine of the Church is not harming them, it’s their inner fight against what their fallen nature wants them to do vis a vis what provides health and happiness for themselves and for society.

Let me guess…you think homosexuals should be able to be “out” and marry in the Church and/or you want female priests?

Lisa
 
exnihilo said:
First off I have great sympathy for my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church. For them the Pope is both the anchor and helmsman for their boat. Those are contrary analogies but both true I think. For my brothers and sisters they are not only experiencing the sorrow of a loss which accompanies any end of a papacy but also experiencing shock at resignation which is no doubt unusual.

I also feel sadness for Christendom. It seems to me that the Pope Benedict was a good Christian leader. In this time we seem to have a deficiency in good leadership. While so many churches are being led down a deadly path the Catholic Church has held steady to important moral truths. This may not be the result of one man, the Pope, but it is plainly true that he has been one of those who has helped maintained Truth in our day.

Since the Catholic Church does contain the largest number of Christians on the planet I pray for comfort for those in her who mourn and God’s guidance for those who select a new Bishop of Rome.
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Thank you:thumbsup:
 
Mods, delete this post and ban me if it’s too mean, but the first thing I thought of was Atton Rand from SW:KotOR video game:
“I’m a deserter. It’s what I do.”
So no real surprise, and no special emotions.
 
LisaA said:
People are harmed by living out the Catholic faith? Actually I suggest they are harmed because they DONT live out their faith. They want to change it to suit their preferences, particularly with respect to sexuality.

The doctrine of the Church is not harming them, it’s their inner fight against what their fallen nature wants them to do vis a vis what provides health and happiness for themselves and for society.

Let me guess…you think homosexuals should be able to be “out” and marry in the Church and/or you want female priests?

Lisa
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People are harmed by living out the Catholic faith?
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Yes, in this case they were unduly harmed by doing what the church told them to do. If the couple in question would have been allowed to follow their own intelligence and conscience in this matter, the undue harm wouldn’t have happened.
 
  1. I appreciate B XVI’s serious approach to theology, his appreciation of the Church Fathers, and his seriousness towards repproachment with Orthodoxy.
  2. I pray for a like-minded successor.
  3. I wonder, with all due respect, if perhaps this isn’t an indication to Rome that the centralization around the papacy and the overwhelming responsibility and power assigned to it is not, ultimately, such a good thing.
 
Augustus24 said:
Rome’s intransigence regarding contraception within marriage.
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The Catholic doctrine of not permitting artifical contraception doesn’t hurt anyone. Most forms of contraception like the pill, norplant, iud, etc. Do hurt women and sometimes even kills them. There have been many studies that show the contracepting couples don’t have as good of relationships and their divorce rates are higher than non-contracepting couples.

As an Orthodox Christian, the Catholic position seems to be a little more lax than that of Orthodox Christianity by permitting couple on their own to decide if & when they should use NFP without spiritual direction. Spiritual direction can help uncover any underlying marital problems and help the couple work through those too.

I believe that you think that the Catholic position re: contraception “hurt” a couple, but I think that there’s more to the story than meets the eyes.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
The Catholic doctrine of not permitting artifical contraception doesn’t hurt anyone. Most forms of contraception like the pill, norplant, iud, etc. Do hurt women and sometimes even kills them. There have been many studies that show the contracepting couples don’t have as good of relationships and their divorce rates are higher than non-contracepting couples.

As an Orthodox Christian, the Catholic position seems to be a little more lax than that of Orthodox Christianity by permitting couple on their own to decide if & when they should use NFP without spiritual direction. Spiritual direction can help uncover any underlying marital problems and help the couple work through those too.

I believe that you think that the Catholic position re: contraception “hurt” a couple, but I think that there’s more to the story than meets the eyes.
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The Catholic doctrine of not permitting artifical contraception doesn’t hurt anyone.
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I respectfully disagree.
I believe that you think that the Catholic position re: contraception “hurt” a couple, but I think that there’s more to the story than meets the eyes.
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Indeed. I haven’t shared the details of the case. I am wondering if I should.
 
Miriam1947 said:
re: #1. The media often urged Blessed JPII to resign because of his health and so that other more progressive Catholics could come to the fore. He wisely decided that the Church needed to see how to live with pain and suffering and to show the dignity of a man…
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I suspect though that Pope Benedict’s own decision was at least in part a result of what he saw the Vatican go through as a result of Pope John Paul II’s illness and incapacity. In fact, I’ve always been under the impression that Ratzinger was running things behind the scenes all those years. I’m guessing he did not want to put someone else through what he went through.
 
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