Non-Catholic reactions to Pope Benedict's resignation.

[crazzeto]

I respectfully disagree.

Indeed. I haven’t shared the details of the case. I am wondering if I should.

In what way does it hurt folks, since you disagree? Bare in mind, I live the doctrine (the good, bad & ugly). Not only do a I live it, but I acknowledge that all of Christendom (protestant included) lived the same doctrine until the Anglicans decided to be modern and tolerant.

 

[Bl_Pope_Pius_IX]

Mods, delete this post and ban me if it’s too mean, but the first thing I thought of was Atton Rand from SW:KotOR video game:
“I’m a deserter. It’s what I do.”
So no real surprise, and no special emotions.

I don’t know what SW:KotOR is or who this Rand fellow is, but how is the Holy Father a deserter, and how does that define him?

 

[FPerito]

Yes, I like the new translation better. But, would you like me to show you were there has been a distinct change in Catholic doctrine?

ok, humor me…

lay down here what Catholic doctrine of faith have had a distinct change…

 

[vsedriver]

I really have no thought or opinion on the event itself. No significance to my life.

I find the quote interesting as he seems to be asking Mary to do more than intercede to Christ, but to actually assist in the selection. Much different than I hear people say her role is here in this forum. “We just ask her to pray for us like.”

From his resignation.

*And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers *with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff.

If the pope is leaving it to the care of the supreme pastor, why does Mary need to assist.

“with her maternal solicitude” which means ‘assist them by interceding with her son’. So he is still asking Mary to pray for the Cardinals.

 

[smaneck]

I know I’m not a non-Catholic, but I just have to say and I never knew that a Pope could/would resign. I thought they had to die or become incapacitated.!

Actually it becomes harder for them to resign if they do become incapacitated because it must be clear they resigned of their own volition. I doubt if Pope John Paul II could even communicate his wishes towards the end.

The last Pope to resign was Pope Gregory XII who stepped aside in order to end the Great Western Schism. That was 600 years ago.

The problem is that we have found ways to unduly prolong people’s lives, including and especially Popes but we aren’t able to stop the aging process which enfeebles them. Since Popes are typically in their sixties or seventies when they take office, that means that if they don’t resign we can look forward to years if not decades of a papacy with just a figure-head who is too feeble to do anything.

Pope Benedict has not been my favorite Pope, partly because everything I know about him I learned directly from Hans Kung But I think this move on his part set an important precedent which hopefully future Popes will follow.

In the meantime, here’s rooting for Pope John XXIV! Or is that too much to ask?

 

[smaneck]

I never said “I” don’t think he can do the job. I thought he was doing just fine. I’ve never heard that he had any health condition.

His “health condition” is called old age and it happens to all of us whether we are guided by the Holy Spirit or not.

Well, there is one alternative to getting old . . .

 

[GaryTaylor]

. I wonder, with all due respect, if perhaps this isn’t an indication to Rome that the centralization around the papacy and the overwhelming responsibility and power assigned to it is not, ultimately, such a good thing.

The Primacy has evolved in its public role . The trans Atlantic travel and constant public appearance seems to be where the heath concern resides.

 

[smaneck]

Surprised. I’m not familiar with anywhere in papal history any pope voluntarily gave up his throne.

I don’t know whether you would say that Pope Gregory XII was coerced into resigning or not, but he certainly resigned on his own terms. Pope Celestine V (d. 1296) definitely resigned voluntarily, after only five months in office. The Cardinals had been trying without success for two years to elect a Pope when Pietro da Morrone sent them a letter threatening them with divine vengeance if they didn’t quickly elect a Pope. The College of Cardinals then elected Morrone himself! (Be careful what you ask for.) As Pope Celestine he basically did two things. He ordered the reinstatement of Pope Gregory’s decree that Cardinals meet to elect popes in secret conclaves so that they not be unduly influenced by outsiders (like himself?) He also decreed that Popes have the right to abdicate, right he himself would avail himself of in a few short months.

I have read where popes had been forced out & replaced and sometimes came back.

Your thinking of Pope Benedict IX, who was apparently elected to the office as a teenager and then shocked everyone by acting like a adolescent (go figure.) He got forced out at one time, came back and then sold his office.

I’d love to see Cardinal Arinze become the next Pope.

He’s nearly as old as the present Pope. If they are going to go African, Cardinal Peter Kodwo Appiah Turkson would be a better choice. Cardinal Angelo Scola might also be a good choice as he has done a lot in the area of Christian-Muslim dialogue.

 

[BernadetteM]

There is much speculation regarding why Pope Benedict has resigned. I wonder if it is because, as I recall, he was the closet one to John Paul the Great, and watched him in his last few months. It seems that during this period the enemies of JP were working against him, at least that is what I remember hearing. Pope Benedict made a statement a few years ago that he was not afraid of the “wolves” , probably in the Church and close to him. If he is sick and can’t continue to fight the good fight to bring back the Church to a more orthodox one, maybe he felt that it was time for someone else who has the strength to take over.

I also heard that he can no longer fly, which limits his visits at i.e. youth events, etc.

Just my thoughts and he will be dearly missed as I think he is a wonderful Pope and leader of the Church.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[smaneck]

Cardinal Arinze.is 80, by the guidelines set by JP-II he won’t be able to vote or be elected.

Cardinals over 80 can’t vote, but I think they can be elected. That would seem pretty silly given that age is the reason for the current Pope’s resignation.

 

[annaevers]

More thoughts/questions:

1. It seems to be a very humble thing to do, to give up the highest office within the Catholic Church. If so, should BPJPII be considered as one lacking humility while having many other wonderful qualities?

Jimmy Akin has given very interesting answer to that question:

1. It’s good that this happened “out of the blue,” rather than when there were calls for a papal resignation. The latter could encourage divisiveness (that is, if dissidents got the idea that all they had to do to oust a pope they don’t like is make a big enough stink).

We know that John Paul II thought about resigning repeatedly but didn’t, likely in significant part because there were calls for his resignation and it would have set a terrible precedent.

 

[smaneck]

I think that if he is named in the lawsuits that he cannot sidestep testifying.

Are you serious? In what court could he be sued? How could he be made to appear?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Cardinals over 80 can’t vote, but I think they can be elected.

I disagree, the Cardinal in question is retired also.

That would seem pretty silly given that age is the reason for the current Pope’s resignation.

What’s silly?

 

[Zairra]

I don’t know what SW:KotOR is or who this Rand fellow is, but how is the Holy Father a deserter, and how does that define him?

Rand is a shady character from Star Wars universe, whom I only remembered for the quote.
About the Pope:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351
In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[15] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[17] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family’s home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[18]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffenhelfer
While the official term was “Luftwaffenhelfer (HJ)”, the term more commonly used is “Flakhelfer” (“Flak-assistant”). The 1926-1929 births are commonly referred to as the “Flakhelfer-Generation”. In German ears the phrase associates with the collective and incisive experience of being torn out of conventional adolescent life (though under circumstances of total war) and being thrown into strict military service and extreme peril, when in the final phase of the war, the AA-batteries themselves became preferred targets of allied strafers.

 

[smaneck]

Margy1948;10346419\:

Besides, I thought any good Catholic male could be considered for the office of Pope, when did it become exclusive to Cardinals?

Theoretically, but since it is a conclave of Cardinals doing the electing it is unlikely anyone else would stand a chance. The last non-Cardinal to be elected was Pope Urban VI who died in 1398.

 

[smaneck]

Let me guess…you think homosexuals should be able to be “out” and marry in the Church

But they already do–its called ordination.

 

[smaneck]

Rand is a shady character from Star Wars universe, whom I only remembered for the quote.
About the Pope:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life:_1927.E2.80.9351
In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[15] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[17] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family’s home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist,]

Let me get this straight. You are accusing Pope Benedict of being a deserter because as a child-soldier he stopped fighting for the Nazis and now at 85 he wants to retire?

 

[smaneck]

What’s silly?

Electing an 80 year old man to replace Pope Benedict.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Theoretically, but since it is a conclave of Cardinals doing the electing it is unlikely anyone else would stand a chance. The last non-Cardinal to be elected was Pope Urban VI who died in 1398.

Right with 118 Cardinals attending and voting its unlikely anyone but one of them will be Pope. Pope Paul VI changed the rules for conclaves with the Apostolic Constitution Romano Pontifico Eligendo. He excluded all Cardinals 80 years old or over from the conclave. JP-II further affirmed and amended other areas in the Apostolic Constitution Universi Dominici Gregis.

There are currently 118 Cardinals under age 80 and thus eligible to vote, 67 of them appointed by Benedict the others JP-II. However, four will turn 80 before the end of March. Depending on the date of the conclave.

Pope Benedict at 78 was the oldest Pope elected in 300-years I believe. Nevertheless with all Cardinals chosen by either Benedict or JP-II its indicative that like thinking will likely prevail.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Electing an 80 year old man to replace Pope Benedict.

Right, I agree. Which isn’t a knock on their integrity.