Non-Catholic religions and abortion

[Verisimilitude]

that is the most crystal clear detailed answer i ever got in this discussion.

Only becasue you refuse to accect the simple and clear explaination of abortion under any circumstance is wrong.

All attempts should be made to save both the child and the mother- all the time- every time- without condition. If one or both die in the attempt to bring forth life there is no sinfullness or immorality in those actions. In fact if the mother dies and the child lives the mother should be remembered and honored as doing the most noble act of selflessness and charity of love.

But your position is still problematic as you have determined human life or personhood is not to be granted to the child in the womb because of some physical limitation be it underdevelopment or defect. You have taken upon yourself an authority you do not legitimately have.

Personal responsibility is within our jurisdiction to control and make decisions on in things like having sex or not. The authority to decide what actions we take in that regard is limited by civil law- not withstanding a persons moral law directed by faith. The responsibility and authority is limited to self, and as has been discussed before the self of the fertilized human egg is unique new human life and is to be protected.

 

[Jennifer123]

What about the case of the young girl who had an abortion and was able to complete college, got married, had two beautiful children, one of which enriched the lives of thousands as an outstanding doctor because her mother was able to send her to medical school. Is that a case proving that God does everything for a reason?

Well I guess it’s time for the ol false dichotomy. What makes you think this is impossible if a woman chooses to have her baby or give it up for adoption?

 

[wanner47]

What about the case of the young girl who had an abortion and was able to complete college, got married, had two beautiful children, one of which enriched the lives of thousands as an outstanding doctor because her mother was able to send her to medical school. Is that a case proving that God does everything for a reason?

Why couldn’t the young girl give her baby up for adoption instead? Same result and no one gets killed.

There are always other options than abortion.

 

[fierysword1920]

Valke2 I only contend that God takes evil and turns it to good. Because this woman had an abortion and went on to have a great secular life of money and as you say is an outstanding doctor does not make abortion right. The person aborted may have been far greater than that of herself. It comes down to responsibility and accountability and in this regard I would question how good a doctor this person is when they have so little respect or regard for life. Does not wash with me:shrug:

 

[estesbob]

What about the case of the young girl who had an abortion and was able to complete college, got married, had two beautiful children, one of which enriched the lives of thousands as an outstanding doctor because her mother was able to send her to medical school. Is that a case proving that God does everything for a reason?

What if the child she aborted was the person God had planned to cure AIDS?

 

[AgnosTheist]

if only Valk2 can tell us more about this girl. Why she aborted. What stage in pregnancy did she get the abortion.

the catholics are so quick to crucify her.

 

[AgnosTheist]

What if the child she aborted was the person God had planned to cure AIDS?

What if the child she aborted was the person God had planned to execute a catholic Holocaust?

Speculations on this issue is futile.

 

[fierysword1920]

Nobody is crucifying this fictional woman. All good catholics would and do pray for people that have abortion and we pray for eachother because we know we are sinners also. We simply don’t operate in moral gray areas like these that you suggest. It does not matter at what stage an abortion is carried out the only difference is the bloodiness and visual horror that takes place with late term abortions. Perhaps you should look at some diagrams of partial birth abortions if you have not already. It may spur a change in your thinking.
God Bless

 

[AgnosTheist]

Only becasue you refuse to accect the simple and clear explaination of abortion under any circumstance is wrong.

your point is crystal clear too but i admired the other for the clarity of its DETAILS.

 

[estesbob]

if only Valk2 can tell us more about this girl. Why she aborted. What stage in pregnancy did she get the abortion.

the catholics are so quick to crucify her.

Who crucifed her? Why would it matter what stage of preganancy she was in. The child is dead regardless

 

[church_mouse]

if only Valk2 can tell us more about this girl. Why she aborted. What stage in pregnancy did she get the abortion.

the catholics are so quick to crucify her.

What happened to you to make you so anti-Catholic? Have you even heard of “Rachel’s Vineyard”? It is an organization started by Catholics to help post-abortive women heal from the physical, emotional and psychological damage done by abortion. Catholics I know are very compassionate to post-abortive women.

 

[estesbob]

What if the child she aborted was the person God had planned to execute a catholic Holocaust?

Speculations on this issue is futile.

Well never know , will we? The OP specuated that it was a greqat thig that this women killed her child as it led to another of her children being a Dr-or so she says.

 

[AgnosTheist]

What happened to you to make you so anti-Catholic?

hey we are discussing abortion here, not catholicism. my secret agenda in saying ‘catholics’ was to remind the folks above not to cast the first stone.

 

[estesbob]

Nobody is crucifying this fictional woman. All good catholics would and do pray for people that have abortion and we pray for eachother because we know we are sinners also. We simply don’t operate in moral gray areas like these that you suggest. It does not matter at what stage an abortion is carried out the only difference is the bloodiness and visual horror that takes place with late term abortions. Perhaps you should look at some diagrams of partial birth abortions if you have not already. It may spur a change in your thinking.
God Bless

It is ironic that the only people who are there to help women who come to realize the horror of what they have done is those involved in the pro-life minsitry. The so called pro-choice clinics forget about them once their check has cleared the bank.

 

[estesbob]

hey we are discussing abortion here, not catholicism. my secret agenda in saying ‘catholics’ was to remind the folks above not to cast the first stone.

You are the only one who thinks anyone cast a stone.

 

[church_mouse]

hey we are discussing abortion here, not catholicism. my secret agenda in saying ‘catholics’ was to remind the folks above not to cast the first stone.

Your agenda really isn’t all that secret.

 

[fierysword1920]

Not one catholic has cast a stone here, only you agnostheist. You condemn us for supporting respect, accountability, truth and above all what God wants from us. My wife became pregnant when she was still only my girlfriend. I took the high road and did what a man is supposed to do and supported my wife and we had our daughter, she is the single greatest gift God has given us, even beyond our own lives. Men and women need to man up and start living for God and the world and not our own selfish desires all the time. Murder and selfishness is what you seem to peddle here and your flipant replys seem to express a real disdain for goodness, order and respect. So tell me what is the problem with what Catholicism teaches, only good comes from it, but what you preach only negativity and pain evolve. So what is yor problem with Catholics, seriously:shrug:

 

[Verisimilitude]

your point is crystal clear too but i admired the other for the clarity of its DETAILS.

Noted, but simplicity does not need such detail. That is why they are simple. Why make it harder than it is or need be?

Example:

To boil water- fill pan and heat.

or

To boil water- Research what pan would best heat water. Get quotes for pan. Select low bid and order pan. Research how water gets to faucet. Build faucet if required. Dig well if required. Get permit for building well and digging faucet. Test water for purity. Determine heat source. Start a war to get oil to heat water. Electric stove, gas stove, or camp fire?..

Back on topic:
Abortion- Do not do it at all ever.

or

Abortion- If… it’s not human, it’s not a person, it’s not fully developed, It has a birth defect, the mother might die, the baby might die, it’s unwanted, it’s poor, it’s a bother, it’s an accident, it’s expensive, it’s my personal choice, because I want to, …

 

[AgnosTheist]

Not one catholic has cast a stone here

thanks to my timely remarks.

these accusations:

“went on to have a great secular life of money”

“got killed”

were not much different from those folks who rounded up the woman (in Jesus’ time) shouting “whore!”.

 

[jmcrae]

thanks to my timely remarks.

these accusations:

“went on to have a great secular life of money”

“got killed”

were not much different from those folks who rounded up the woman (in Jesus’ time) shouting “whore!”.

They weren’t wrong to call her a whore - that’s exactly what she was.

They were wrong not to round up the man who was with her, since it states that she was “caught in the act” - well, she wasn’t doing the act by herself, was she?

Jesus was rebuking them for their hypocrisy; not because the woman was in some way innocent (she was clearly guilty) but because they wanted to stone her, while letting the man, who was equally guilty, get away - and also feeling smug that they hadn’t been caught in their own sins, as well.

When Jesus forgave her, he told her “Go, and sin no more.” Not “You didn’t really do anything wrong, so don’t worry about it.”