C
Contarini
Guest
So is a Catholic priest.
Infallibility is much more complicated and much less relevant than simplistic Cathoilc Internet propaganda claims.
Edwin
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Infallibility is much more complicated and much less relevant than simplistic Cathoilc Internet propaganda claims.
Edwin
T
Tomster
Guest
Angel was referring to doctrinal error. Please explain the many differing beliefs within the many different Baptists “churches.” It’s plain enough for anyone to see that there is no unity among the Baptists. Why do think that is?
T
Tomster
Guest
Tell it to “Bishop Vicky.”
J
Janet1983
Guest
Well…
- What about speaking in Latin in a time when Latin was only spoken by the educated?
“So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.” 1 Corinthians 14:9
q.e.d. - What about the doctrine of Purgatory?
- What about Limbo?
- What about the high honors for the Pope?
“And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.” Acts 10:25-26 - What about the pope’s worldly power?
“Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.” Matthew 4:8-9 - What about the Rosary?
“And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” Matthew 6:5-7 - What about the scapular and the sabbatine privilege… I didn’t know about it until I came here (even though I was Catholic for most of my life). That whole idea…
- What about the immaculate conception? All men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior.
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” Romans 3:23
“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:” Romans 5:12
“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.” Luke 1:46-47
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Tomster
Guest
Ditto Contarini.
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DLClark
Guest
Romans 11:6; Eph 2:8-9; Titus 3:5; Is 64:6 says works and grace are mutually exclusive in relationship to salvation. We are saved by faith alone but then after salvation we are asked to do good works.
M
Mickey
Guest
Perhaps if you say this enough, you will begin to believe it.
Faith and works cannot be separated.
M
Mickey
Guest
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, it is not now by works: otherwise grace is no more grace.
“It is not now by works”… If salvation were to come by works, done by nature, without faith and grace, salvation would not be a grace or favour, but a debt; but such dead works are indeed of no value in the sight of God towards salvation. It is not the same with regard to works done with, and by, God’s grace; for to such works as these, he has promised eternal salvation.
drbo.org/chapter/52011.htm
M
Mickey
Guest
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God; Not of works, that no man may glory.
“Not of works”… as of our own growth, or from ourselves; but as from the grace of God.
drbo.org/chapter/56002.htm
M
Mickey
Guest
Titus 3:5
Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to his mercy, he saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost;
Saved by mercy.
M
Mickey
Guest
Is 64:6****
And we are all become as one unclean, and all our justices as the rag of a menstruous woman: and we have all fallen as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
“Our justices”… That is, the works by which we pretended to make ourselves just. This is spoken particularly of the sacrifices, sacraments, and ceremonies of the Jews, after the death of Christ, and the promulgation of the new law.
drbo.org/chapter/27064.htm
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Janet1983
Guest
Isaiah 64:6 (King James Version)
6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
There is no salvation for one trusting in his own righteousness to commend him to God, for such acts (without repentant faith in Christ’s death for our sins) are like “menstrual rags” in the sight of a holy God. “Not by works of righteousness” are we saved, but only by “his mercy” (Tit. 3:5)
M
Mickey
Guest
Now you are ready to debate Bible versions? What is your point, dear?
Any version you choose is interpreted the same way. Faith and works cannot be separated.
Sola fide is a protestant innovation.
J
Janet1983
Guest
No, I wasn’t planning to… Actually the KJV is really close to the version quoted earlier… I just put it as a support of the Bible verse, because they do say the same… I even relied to the previously mentioned version (note, I did not say “filthy rags” as in the KJV) in my explanation…Now you are ready to debate Bible versions? What is your point, dear?
Any version you choose is interpreted the same way. Faith and works cannot be separated.
Sola fide is a protestant innovation.
M
Mickey
Guest
Great…then we agree!
A
Angel7
Guest
Speaking Latin, is a part of the traditional mass. I don’t know the Our Father in latin. But i Can tell what it is. If they didn’t understand ALL of latin. they would understanding when they are praying.
Purgatory does exist. I here that the Protestant bibles omit 1 book in the bible and Half of another. Because in those 2 books, it delt with praying for the deceased. Something Protestants did not recognize, so they took out those sections of the Bible.
Limbo: When a Child is a aborted, (not baptised) where do you think it would go?
Original sin is still there, the child is un baptized. but no personal sins were pausible.
Limbo is the EDGE of hell.(its not an offocial doctrine of catholic Church eaither) this is only a theory, it is not dogma.People are free to dismis or believe in Limbo. Just because one is not baptised does it necesserilly mean that they are banished to hell? Limbo is a kinda suppressed state i suppose. The Church has to make a decision.
Also, it is possibly where the patriarchs of the Old testament were kept untill Jesus saved mankind.
The Holy Father is the leader of the church on earth, pray that he faithfully leads the church closer to Christ.
Worldly Power? (the quote you used was when Jesus was tempted in the desert, kinda of irreverent.) I don’t think the Pope has Worldy Power. He can only Lead church affairs on earth.
Sure he can excommunicate people, etc… but the office of Pope is a very humble position, not much pride in it to tempt him.
Rosary is one of the greatest weapons against the Devil.
We are not praying the same thing over and over, your only viewing the verbal part of it.
The 10 beads represent 10 parts of a mystery there are 15 (now 20) mysteries. Sorrowful, Luminous, Joyful, Glorious(5 mysteries per catagory). (They are prayed on a weekly schedule, for ex. Thursdays are luminous, sunday is glorious etc. Research the mysterys on your own. Every bead is a different part, we contemplate that mystery. So its not the SAME thing every decade (10 beads 1 decade) but 1 bead is a different part of ssaid mystery. we ask Mary for her Intercession, and her prayers for us. Mary also gave us 15 promises if we pray the rosary faithfully. Look em up.
The scapular and Rosary goes hand in hand, The Scapular helps strengnthen our prayers, and the Rosary itself is a strong prayer, the brown scapular is especially important. Mary gave a promise at Mt. Carmel, that those of the Carmelite order, and those lay people, which wear the Scapular and have it with them, when they die, they shall Suffer Eternal Fire.
(This is NOT like the Once saved always saved, theory that protestants believe, it is not a right for you to sin all you want, your supposed to be faithful AND wear a scapular, its not loophole.)
Well, think about it, of course G-d is everyone’s savior. Of course we need Christ to be saved. ALL just people, even the patriarchs of the Old Testament, could not enter heaven untill Christ was born, and died for our sins. Mary was Immaculate, born with NO sin, because she had the choice to accept G-d’s request to be the mother of our savior. She still had free will, could have said no. But she was immaculate, to.
I like how your asking all these questions, Catholicism doesn’t ask people to believe in what they don’t understand, they encourage you to seek answers, because trust in G-d above, the answers are there.
G-d Bless
K
kalt
Guest
And what if you refuse?
J
Janet1983
Guest
Today you might understand it, but you also have free access to everything you need to know and probably know every text anyways (well I did) and then translation is not hard. In the time of for example Martin Luther this was different. Not only that many people could not read, most did not understand Latin. (Not much different today concerning Latin, but we do have most pieces in our own language too, so that we do not have to guess… Well not all know much Latin anymore however… The look on a fellow altar servers face however was priceless when our pastor all of a sudden said “Introibo ad altare Dei.”)
There is no omission. The OT as accepted by Protestants were the Scriptures of the Jews as accepted by them. The Maccabees for instance are not part of this.
Heaven. I know it has recently been named a theory. I have 4 kids waiting for me when I get there because God took them back.
It is called “Head of State”. He has definite worldly power in the Vatican.
I know, I prayed it every day… Mostly all the same, except for exchanging less than one sentence in the Hail Mary. I should know, I used to know them all and when to “pray” which.
A
Angel7
Guest
The Vatican doesn’t really have Worldy Power. The Pope lives in the Vatican, it is a humbling office to serve the Lord. The Vatican is protected militarily by Italy. The Closest thing the Vatican has to an army is the swiss Gaurd, that Protects the Pope with their Halberds.
The Church is not a Medieval institution.
The Truth is not what you WANT the truth to be, truth is universal.
It is held as Deuterocanonical scripture by both the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Protestantism and modern-day Judaism holds it an Apocryphal book.
got that right off of Wiki.
Didn’t G-d warn people not to Omit, nor Add to, nor Alter the Bible?
I’m sure priests woudl speak in Vernacular, and Comman language as well as latin. One way or another people would here G-d’s word.
"Jews as accepted by them. The Maccabees for instance are not part of this."
The Modern-day Judaism holds it an Apocryphal book, your getting your view from Modern-day Judaism?
The Christian Church is the New Israel.
I pray the Jews Accept Jesus as their savior.
G-d Bless
The Church is not a Medieval institution.
The Truth is not what you WANT the truth to be, truth is universal.
It is held as Deuterocanonical scripture by both the Catholic and Orthodox churches. Protestantism and modern-day Judaism holds it an Apocryphal book.
got that right off of Wiki.
Didn’t G-d warn people not to Omit, nor Add to, nor Alter the Bible?
I’m sure priests woudl speak in Vernacular, and Comman language as well as latin. One way or another people would here G-d’s word.
"Jews as accepted by them. The Maccabees for instance are not part of this."
The Modern-day Judaism holds it an Apocryphal book, your getting your view from Modern-day Judaism?
The Christian Church is the New Israel.
I pray the Jews Accept Jesus as their savior.
G-d Bless
J
Janet1983
Guest
It does not matter whether or not you choose to base any theology on the apocrypha or not. They are not scripture and if it cannot be validly founded upon Scripture it is wrong. That is why I do not believe in a place called Purgatory for example.
The apocrypha consists of a set of books written between approximately 400 B.C. and the time of Christ. The word “apocrypha” (απόκρυφα) means “Hidden.” These books consist of 1 and 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, the Rest of Esther, the Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (also titled Ecclesiasticus), Baruch, The Letter of Jeremiah, Song of the Three Young Men, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, The Additions to Daniel, The Prayer of Manasseh, and 1 and 2 Maccabees.
The Protestant Church rejects the apocrypha as being inspired, as do the Jews, but in 1546 the Roman Catholic Church officially declared some of the apocryphal books to belong to the canon of scripture. These are Tobit, Judith, 1 and 2 Maccabees, Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (also known as Ecclesiasticus), and Baruch. The apocryphal books are written in Greek, not Hebrew (except for Ecclesiasticus, 1 Maccabees, a part of Judith, and Tobit), and contain some useful historical information.
Is the Apocrypha Scripture? Protestants deny its inspiration but the Roman Catholic Church affirms it.
First of all, neither Jesus nor the apostles ever quoted from the Apocrypha. There are over 260 quotations of the Old Testament in the New Testament, and not one of them is from these books.
Secondly Jesus referenced the Jewish Old Testament canon from the beginning to the end and did not include the apocryphal in his reference. “From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.” (Luke 11:51).
The traditional Jewish canon was divided into three sections (Law, Prophets, Writings), and an unusual feature of the last section was the listing of Chronicles out of historical order, placing it after Ezra-Nehemiah and making it the last book of the canon. In light of this, the words of Jesus in Luke 11:50-51 reflect the settled character of the Jewish canon (with its peculiar order) already in his day. Christ uses the expression “from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah,” which appears troublesome since Zechariah was not chronologically the last martyr mentioned in the Bible (cf. Jer. 26:20-23). However, Zechariah is the last martyr we read of in the Old Testament according to Jewish canonical order (cf. II Chron. 24:20-22), which was apparently recognized by Jesus and his hearers.
This means that the same Old Testament canon, according to the Jewish tradition, is arranged differently than how we have it in the Protestant Bible today. This was the arrangement that Jesus was referring to when he referenced Abel and Zechariah, the first and last people to have their blood shed – as listed in the Old Testament Jewish canon. Obviously, Jesus knew of the apocryphal and was not including it in his reference.
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