non-Catholics: defend your faith--please

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JonNC said:
I don’t recall any part of scripture saying that Christ thought the Church was an encumbrance. In fact, it is quite the opposite. It is the vehicle with which Christ chose to make His word known, and His sacraments available.

Jon
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Scripture doesn’t say that the church is an encumberance. That was me answering what I percieved you saying. That the reception of grace is tied to the church or the reception of sacraments. Perhaps my use of the word encumbered was unfortunate. My point was that the only thing necessary for our justification is faith in Jesus Christ. This justification is a very personal and intimate thing (between you and God) And is not contingant on a church or a sacrament.

As for the rest I guess we’re good to go.
 
I would like to know what Christian religions and branches, other than Catholicism, teach regarding the reality of Adam and Eve and if original sin is part of the belief system. It is all right to share from one’s childhood.

I would also like to know if a particular religion offers different views of the first parents of the human species. I have noticed that some kinds of Christian churches act independently.

I am not interested in a defense of a particular belief. I simply want to understand the belief. Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.
 
grannymh said:
I would like to know what Christian religions and branches, other than Catholicism, teach regarding the reality of Adam and Eve and if original sin is part of the belief system. It is all right to share from one’s childhood.

I would also like to know if a particular religion offers different views of the first parents of the human species. I have noticed that some kinds of Christian churches act independently.

I am not interested in a defense of a particular belief. I simply want to understand the belief. Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.
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because the topic of your question is different from this thread, it would be better to start a new thread with your question. then your question is more likely to get answered by more people. and it wont detract from the original posters purpose for this thread.
 
For me this question illustrates a basic misunderstanding of faith. Faith precedes any human belief system - Faith is consent or surrender to the divine reality before the experience of God is broken down into belief systems. The Catholic church points us to the truth, which is Christ. Your question is dualistic and aims, in my view, to highlight division, not unity. We, as Catholics, must avoid such righteous thinking. God is not in existence but is existence itself and his sun shines on ALL of his creation. Indeed God loves Satan as much as he loves the virgin Mary…Faith then, is the opposite of certainty.
 
michaeldaniels said:
Well…that was sort of my point…I apologize if what typed was short and pointed…I was trying to prove a point. You all hold traditions like you state that are approximately 2,000 years old…and if that is the case, you hold CATHOLIC traditions…that is all I wanted to point out. God Bless
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They are actually holding to ORTHODOX traditions, the one true Church, the only church the Holy Spirit could lead a Christian to, all the other members of other churches were not led by the Holy Spirit by by the spirit of error, right?

Who says the last 2000 years were YOUR years, the Orthodox sound like they have a MUCH better case than Catholics, but I think you are both wrong, so it does not matter.
 
firstmode said:
They are actually holding to ORTHODOX traditions, the one true Church, the only church the Holy Spirit could lead a Christian to, all the other members of other churches were not led by the Holy Spirit by by the spirit of error, right?

Who says the last 2000 years were YOUR years, the Orthodox sound like they have a MUCH better case than Catholics, but I think you are both wrong, so it does not matter.
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For a little over a thousand years, there was ONLY one Church. There was no distinction between Roman Catholic and Orthodox.

I see you caveated your statement about which one has the ‘better’ case. It is often Protestants will use the two to ‘swipe’ at one, or the other, but make such caveats to maintain their position in a very ‘new’ Church.

None of us can know exactly how the Holy Spirit works. It is hard to imagine that the Holy Spirit gives so many ‘different’ truths to so many different people. Who is in error? Again, it’s hard to imagine that the original Church Christ built can be in error. When you weigh the Orthodox against the Catholic Church, you don’t have near the descrepancies you will find with the thousands of denominations of Protestantism some of which claim to be the ONLY way. This is in error as some of the Protestants will aptly point out. Christ is the ONLY way. For me, I accept all that He gave/gives us, including His Church.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
For a little over a thousand years, there was ONLY one Church. There was no distinction between Roman Catholic and Orthodox.

I see you caveated your statement about which one has the ‘better’ case. It is often Protestants will use the two to ‘swipe’ at one, or the other, but make such caveats to maintain their position in a very ‘new’ Church.

None of us can know exactly how the Holy Spirit works. It is hard to imagine that the Holy Spirit gives so many ‘different’ truths to so many different people. Who is in error? Again, it’s hard to imagine that the original Church Christ built can be in error. When you weigh the Orthodox against the Catholic Church, you don’t have near the descrepancies you will find with the thousands of denominations of Protestantism some of which claim to be the ONLY way. This is in error as some of the Protestants will aptly point out. Christ is the ONLY way. For me, I accept all that He gave/gives us, including His Church.
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There is only one truth and thereore only one church (body of Christ)

Eph.4:1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

That Church is not the Catholic, Orthodox or 99% of Protestant Churche’s. It is discribed in Rev. 12:17 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
 
MyRdmrLvs said:
because the topic of your question is different from this thread, it would be better to start a new thread with your question. then your question is more likely to get answered by more people. and it wont detract from the original posters purpose for this thread.
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I do understand your reasoning. Thank you for your timely post.

I always thought that Sola Scriptura was a reason for a number of Protestant religions. Thus, defending one’s faith would have to include the Book of Genesis. Wouldn’t it? Maybe not, if Sola Scriptura is not always literal.

Perhaps what you are telling me is that Adam and Eve are a non-issue when it comes to choosing a particular Christian religion or branch. That being the case, my question certainly does not belong on this thread. Thank you for your kindness in pointing that out.

Blessings,
granny

The quest for truth is worthy of the adventures of the journey.
 
Richard_Kastner said:
There is only one truth and thereore only one church (body of Christ)

Eph.4:1I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

That Church is not the Catholic, Orthodox or 99% of Protestant Churche’s. It is discribed in Rev. 12:17 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
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Yes, there was one Church, which is the body of Christ, and it was Catholic, until the great schism of 1054, then more divisions started with the Protestant reformation that has produced thousands of different denominations.
 
grannymh said:
I would like to know what Christian religions and branches, other than Catholicism, teach regarding the reality of Adam and Eve and if original sin is part of the belief system. It is all right to share from one’s childhood.

I would also like to know if a particular religion offers different views of the first parents of the human species. I have noticed that some kinds of Christian churches act independently.

I am not interested in a defense of a particular belief. I simply want to understand the belief. Thank you.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is worthy of profound respect.
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Granny, I believe in a literal Adam and Eve who lived about 6000 yrs ago. I believe the Bible teaches we receive a sin nature from them.

I am a non-catholic, non-denominational Christian.
 
may_they_be_one said:
Adding rule upon rule to distinguish one set of believers in Christ from another set is not the answer to drawing all nations to the LORD. Any rules or laws that we MUST know will already be written on our hearts, and no man will need to teach them to us. Of course this sounds way to simple, but didn’t Jesus tell us to have faith as a child?

34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

AS ALWAYS,
Love, Joy, and Peace in Christ!
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May-they-all=be-one, I don’t think it is a matter of the Apostolic Church adding rules though, through- out the Gospel it tell us we must keep Christ’s commandments after we have been forgiven of our wickedness and sins.That begins when we are first justified in Baptism , the Holy Spirit fills us with the grace to become holy to please God, it is a life long process, Along the way when we fall back into sin, and filled with remorse because of it,we repent,then God in his mercy will forgive us and we are restored in his love.:)God bless us all and teach us the full truth, Peace, Carlan
 
grannymh said:
I would like to know what Christian religions and branches, other than Catholicism, teach regarding the reality of Adam and Eve and if original sin is part of the belief system. It is all right to share from one’s childhood.

I would also like to know if a particular religion offers different views of the first parents of the human species. I have noticed that some kinds of Christian churches act independently.
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The Adam and Eve myth is metaphor for the evolution of self awareness.
 
ElisabethM said:
From the thread on “non-Catholics; Why are you here?”

I’d be interested in reading why you have chosen and remain in the faith you profess–NOT why you’re “not Catholic” buy why you ARE pagan, LDS, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. Oh, and please avoid simplistic statements like “I am {blank} because it’s the true religion.”

Please leave out the “anti-anything” rhetoric . . . restrict yourself to a positive defense of your chosen faith. Please, PLEASE, re-read your proposed post before posting it to see if it contains anything negative, then edit it to keep it positive. Thanks!

Again, this is what I’m looking for:

And if I can add one more request, if Catholics or others not of the faith being presented have any questions about a post, could you please just ask questions for clarification so that we can all learn more about one another? Maybe then others will feel free to post without fear of getting hammered. Again, I thank you in advance.😃

em
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I am a Christian in the most generic sense of the word which in my view, consists of the true catholic (universal) church in which sinners have moved from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of His Son by the grace of God. I understand the labels created in Christendom which creates traditions and denominations… but believe that the true church members are only known by God in this life. I do attend a Protestant Church in which the Pastors loosely embrace the distinctives of the 16th Century Reformation. So, for the purpose of this thread, Catholics would consider me to be a non-Catholic Christian. In God’s eyes, I believe we are either Christians or sinners in enmity with Him… and our denominational and traditional separations are actually man made since humanity only really has two camps (believers and unbelievers).
 
cheese_sdc said:
The Adam and Eve myth is metaphor for the evolution of self awareness.
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The more I learned about the Bible, the apocrypha, other religions and faith traditions and myths, etc… the less faith I had in any “religion”. As you point out, there are stories in the Bible that can be viewed on multiple levels, many metaphorically. When compared to other faiths, many of the same themes arise (see Joseph Campbell and Bart Erman’s works for some examples).

I bring this up because as a result of my study of the above, combined with personal experiences and observations, etc., I came to the conclusion that there is no one “GOD”, no personal god at all. I believe in the paranormal, energies, etc. that may be classed as “gods” in polytheism and I’d have to say that while I’m still working this out in my own head, I’m an agnostic (in that I can’t be sure and don’t believe it is possible to me to KNOW for sure in this human state) leaning toward polytheism (my belief in energies/paranormal “gods” if you will). I guess you can say that instead of being told something and trying to make the evidence fit, I’m taking the opposite route. I was raised Protestant and was Catholic for some time as an adult, drawn I think to the mysticism.
 
Swan said:
The more I learned about the Bible, the apocrypha, other religions and faith traditions and myths, etc… the less faith I had in any “religion”. As you point out, there are stories in the Bible that can be viewed on multiple levels, many metaphorically. When compared to other faiths, many of the same themes arise (see Joseph Campbell and Bart Erman’s works for some examples).

I bring this up because as a result of my study of the above, combined with personal experiences and observations, etc., I came to the conclusion that there is no one “GOD”, no personal god at all. I believe in the paranormal, energies, etc. that may be classed as “gods” in polytheism and I’d have to say that while I’m still working this out in my own head, I’m an agnostic (in that I can’t be sure and don’t believe it is possible to me to KNOW for sure in this human state) leaning toward polytheism (my belief in energies/paranormal “gods” if you will). I guess you can say that instead of being told something and trying to make the evidence fit, I’m taking the opposite route. I was raised Protestant and was Catholic for some time as an adult, drawn I think to the mysticism.
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Hi everybody! Been off the list and dealing with other issues, but now I’m back.

I am a Pantheist at heart after being raised Lutheran as a kid. I totally get the New Age and believe the world is almost ready to abandon one sided, ego driven religious institutions as we move towards gnossis. I believe Jesus was a Master and that many Masters have existed and many more shall appear. We can all be Masters if we try hard enough. But we can be “Small Masters” at any time. I believe we are eternal. We are matter. Matter is energy. We are both. I believe we have what we call a Soul. Our souls are infinite through space and time. Take that simple thought and ask: “If all souls are infinite and exist in the same space and time, than wouldn’t they be one?” If all souls are independent in space and time, and all one, then need we look further for the source of God Energy? What is "God Energy? That is the feeling of something greater than ourselves that has existed since we attained consciousness. This feeling has occurred everywhere man has developed in wildly varied times and locations. That is what we call: “God.” Or Spirit, that’s my favorite!

I believe there is no such things as “Supernatural” or “Paranormal.” These are words for
observances that we can’t explain. Everything we observe or experience is a natural part of our physical world. Shockingly, there has never been a virgin birth and nobody has ever risen from the dead. That said, the belief in such things neither disproves nor proves the existence of God. In fact, our believe in God is totally independent of what “God” really is and how it actually works. Oh, I almost forgot, whatever happens to us as we pass this current physical plain, happens to all regardless of whatever it is we believe. Saint or sinner, Mother Theresa or Adolf Hitler, we all will go through the same process. There is no such place as “Hell, Purgatory, Limbo and… even Heaven!” All made up because we don’t actually know what happens! We will someday… LOL!

Lastly, I ran across this statement by Michael Shermer, editor of Septic Magazine in a piece in this month’s Scientific American:

“… The fact we cannot fully explain a mystery with natural means does not mean it requires a supernatural explanation. It just means that we don’t know everything. Such uncertainty is at the very heart of science and is what makes it such a challenging enterprise.”

Thank you for reading my words,

Blessed be, Doug
 
What is there in the Nicene Creed, which we recite at Mass, or the Apostles’ Creed, that is outlined in the Catechism, that Protestants do not believe? Aren’t we all Christians? Isn’t it time for the religious wars to be over? Are we distracted by the attempts of organizations to get a leg up in attracting members and bringing in money?
 
It’s hard to leave a faith when one is seeing, hearing or feeling the presence of the powers one worships almost daily not to mention experiencing miracles almost as often.

That is why I am a Pagan.
 
Swan said:
The more I learned about the Bible, the apocrypha, other religions and faith traditions and myths, etc… the less faith I had in any “religion”. As you point out, there are stories in the Bible that can be viewed on multiple levels, many metaphorically. When compared to other faiths, many of the same themes arise (see Joseph Campbell and Bart Erman’s works for some examples).

I bring this up because as a result of my study of the above, combined with personal experiences and observations, etc., I came to the conclusion that there is no one “GOD”, no personal god at all. I believe in the paranormal, energies, etc. that may be classed as “gods” in polytheism and I’d have to say that while I’m still working this out in my own head, I’m an agnostic (in that I can’t be sure and don’t believe it is possible to me to KNOW for sure in this human state) leaning toward polytheism (my belief in energies/paranormal “gods” if you will). I guess you can say that instead of being told something and trying to make the evidence fit, I’m taking the opposite route. I was raised Protestant and was Catholic for some time as an adult, drawn I think to the mysticism.
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This is close to my understanding as well. 😃
 
OriginalJS said:
What is there in the Nicene Creed, which we recite at Mass, or the Apostles’ Creed, that is outlined in the Catechism, that Protestants do not believe?
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Depends on who you are talking about. Many communions do use the Creeds. Lutherans, for example. In our confession - the Book of Concord - the Creeds are listed first, before the Augsburg Confession.
Aren’t we all Christians? Isn’t it time for the religious wars to be over? Are we distracted by the attempts of organizations to get a leg up in attracting members and bringing in money?
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I agree with your sentiments, here.
Jon
 
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