NON CATHOLICS - Have the these forums helped you convert or consider converting?

[St.Eric]

BrianH:

I would shred you in a debate. You against me. Pick the topic
Start a post and just wait.
Lawyers are my speciality.
Two days prep time sufficient?
Just let me know know the topic. No cut and paste jobs either.

BH

Would you be so kind as to explain to us what an “independant Christian” is? I would appreciate it. Thank you.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I was watching World Over Live on EWTN and Fr. John Richard Neuhaus was the guest. I hadn’t realized he was a convert from being a Lutheran Minister, he just seems like such a natural Catholic.

Anyway, he gave a statistic about adult conversions in the US that just blew me away. Evidently, for quite a few years now, there have been an average of 200,000 adult converts to Catholicism each year. (And I thought I was special! I guess I’ll just have to get over myself! )

It seems that this is not just a phenomenon (sp?) in the US, but happening worldwide in unprecidented numbers. Think the Holy Spirit might just be up to something?

Of course, the Fundamentalists say it’s the devil leading us all astray. What they choose to ignore, is that our relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ becomes more real and precious than ever before. That devil sure doesn’t know how to do his job very well, now does he?

 

[Flopfoot]

BrianH:

I would shred you in a debate. You against me. Pick the topic
Start a post and just wait.
Lawyers are my speciality.
Two days prep time sufficient?
Just let me know know the topic. No cut and paste jobs either.

BH

Careful dude. Remember how Goliath (the huge guy) got thrashed by David (the little guy who just slung a rock at him)? It’s hard to win any fight when God is on the other guy’s side. Now, I have just checked your profiles. Ryan is ‘Catholic as the day is long’ while you are ‘independent Christian’ so I am guessing that you are some Christian other than Catholic? Hence it’s easy to see that God will be on Ryan’s side - god is always on the side of truth. If you are going to fight, my adivce to you is - watch out for flying rocks!

 

[Mickey]

BrianH:

I would shred you in a debate. You against me. Pick the topic
Start a post and just wait.
Lawyers are my speciality.
Two days prep time sufficient?
Just let me know know the topic. No cut and paste jobs either.

A man who is deeply wounded in his heart by provocation and abuse shows thereby that deep in himself he harbors the old serpent. If he bears the blows in silence or answers with great humility, he will render this serpent weak and powerless (or will kill it altogether). But if he argues with bitterness or speaks with arrogance he will give the serpent an added strength to pour poison into his heart.
St. Simeon the New Theologian

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[Mickey]

ScottH:

This site was a contributing factor in my conversion from Protestantism to Roman Catholicism. I’ll contend that it “helped”, but what really helped the most was seeing the “leadership” of several protestant churches from the inside.

…as well as being around many “charasmatic” worshippers.

But this site helped answer questions and knock down those “programmed brick walls” my parents put up to keep me Presbyterian.

Of course…me actually taking the chance and going to a RC mass was 50% of what did it. I was really taken by the singular focus on Christ, despite being told the opposite was true over the years.

But still, this site was quite valuable to me during that time.

HI Scott,

May the peace and love of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ be with you and your family always.
img441.imageshack.us/img441/7509/icnymphios1yu.th.jpg

 

[Jeanette_L]

A man who is deeply wounded in his heart by provocation and abuse shows thereby that deep in himself he harbors the old serpent. If he bears the blows in silence or answers with great humility, he will render this serpent weak and powerless (or will kill it altogether). But if he argues with bitterness or speaks with arrogance he will give the serpent an added strength to pour poison into his heart.
St. Simeon the New Theologian

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Thank you so much for this quote. I am struggling myself with how to deal with hostility, both coming at me from family and friends over my conversion, and also, coming up from inside of me in response to them. We know in our soul that these attitudes are not coming from the spirit of Christ. I have been made well aware by the Lord to turn these hurts over to Him, and I can be healed. It is a daily work in process, but these types of reminders make the process a bit easier.

Blessings,
Jeanette

 

[Alfie]

Jeanette L:

I was watching World Over Live on EWTN and Fr. John Richard Neuhaus was the guest. I hadn’t realized he was a convert from being a Lutheran Minister, he just seems like such a natural Catholic.

Anyway, he gave a statistic about adult conversions in the US that just blew me away. Evidently, for quite a few years now, there have been an average of 200,000 adult converts to Catholicism each year. (And I thought I was special! I guess I’ll just have to get over myself! )

It seems that this is not just a phenomenon (sp?) in the US, but happening worldwide in unprecidented numbers. Think the Holy Spirit might just be up to something?

Of course, the Fundamentalists say it’s the devil leading us all astray. What they choose to ignore, is that our relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ becomes more real and precious than ever before. That devil sure doesn’t know how to do his job very well, now does he?

Not to break your bubble to much but from what I have been reading on the internet there are more Catholics converting to the Protestant religions than visa versa. Even in that staid Catholic bastion “the Republic of Ireland” the number of Evangelicals is beginning to grow. Just think if the Reformation had started 500 years earlier than it did Catholism would be extinct by now.

 

[Eden]

Alfie:

Not to break your bubble to much but from what I have been** reading on the internet**

 

[RyanL]

Thank you, all, for your support.

BrianH was mainly responding to what he believed was a very personal attack by me (I would likewise have been offended if I was attacked in the way he perceived); we have resolved it as an honest misunderstanding, but have decided to go ahead with a discussion here.

Hopefully this thread can now resume the OP’s topic.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[Mickey]

Jeanette L:

Thank you so much for this quote. I am struggling myself with how to deal with hostility, both coming at me from family and friends over my conversion, and also, coming up from inside of me in response to them. We know in our soul that these attitudes are not coming from the spirit of Christ. I have been made well aware by the Lord to turn these hurts over to Him, and I can be healed. It is a daily work in process, but these types of reminders make the process a bit easier.

Blessings,
Jeanette

Yes Jeanette. It can be a difficult cross to bear. You are absolutely correct when you say that it is a daily struggle. Ironically, this forum has helped me immensely. When I first joined I would respond to hostile non-Catholics with hostility—and although I still slip up on occasion, I have learned to respond in a more charitable, loving, and understanding manner. God’s grace will protect you and give you the proper things to say at the proper time. Peace to you.

**It is no small struggle to be freed from self-esteem. Such freedom is to be attained by the inner practice of the virtues and by more frequent prayer; and the sign that you have attained it is that you no longer harbor rancor against anybody who abuses or has abused you. **
St. Maximos the Confessor

 

[Eden]

Alfie:

Not to break your bubble to much but from what I have been reading on the internet there are more Catholics converting to the Protestant religions than visa versa. Even in that staid Catholic bastion “the Republic of Ireland” the number of Evangelicals is beginning to grow. Just think if the Reformation had started 500 years earlier than it did Catholism would be extinct by now.

It seems to me that all of the ex-Catholics I have met have little understanding of what the Church actually teaches. So, are the uninformed easily persuaded to join man-made religions? Yes.

But look at the numbers “on the internet” of Protestant clergy coming the other way:

Conversions to Catholicism…

While reading an article at the Trinity Foundation website, I came across an excerpt from an interview with the Coming Home Network(CHN). CHN is a Catholic support institution for non-Catholic clergy considering moving to Catholicism. The except is reprinted below:

JR: How many Protestant clergymen have you helped to join the Roman Church?

CHN: Of these 839 ministers, 483 are now in full communion with the Catholic Church.

JR: What are the trends: Are the numbers increasing?

CHN: Yes the numbers are increasing. We have had a 34% increase of non-catholic clergymen contacting us this years as compared to last year.

JR: Is there any denomination that predominates in conversions?

CHN: The largest denomination is Episcopalian, the second largest are ministers from the Baptist tradition.

JR: Which seminaries have these men been educated in?

CHN: We have not kept a scientific record of the names of the seminaries in which the ministers were educated. They tend to be from all over the USA and the world.

www.jeremy.marzhillstudios.com/personal/archives/000020.html

 

[Jeanette_L]

Alfie:

Not to break your bubble to much but from what I have been reading on the internet there are more Catholics converting to the Protestant religions than visa versa. Even in that staid Catholic bastion “the Republic of Ireland” the number of Evangelicals is beginning to grow. Just think if the Reformation had started 500 years earlier than it did Catholism would be extinct by now.

Actually, besides the internet part ( ), my point was not to compare the numbers really, but to state that this mass migration to Catholicism has generally been unheard of until recently. We know that most Catholics who convert to Protestantism, have not ever known their Catholic faith well to begin with. They are very easily converted because of lack of knowledge and usually are making the move from an emotional encounter (and I’m not saying it was not a genuine encounter).

But those who convert from Protestantism to Catholicism generally do so after much soul searching (knowing the hardship they will endure for this decision) and long study and tend to make these decisions in a much more informed manner. That is what makes these numbers so astounding!

It also explains the extreme and sometimes frantic attacks on Catholicism we see coming from the Fundamentalists and many other Evangelical pupits these days. Much more hateful than they had been for awhile. I think a panic is setting in.

 

[Amadeus]

Originally posted by Alfie:

Not to break your bubble to much but from what I have been reading on the internet there are more Catholics converting to the Protestant religions than visa versa.

You almost convinced me of some veracity on your Internet sources until the bolded part of your assertion!

So, are you talking about Catholics or “Mastercard” holders?

 

[javelin]

Jeanette L:

We know that most Catholics who convert to Protestantism, have not ever known their Catholic faith well to begin with. They are very easily converted because of lack of knowledge and usually are making the move from an emotional encounter (and I’m not saying it was not a genuine encounter).

I have a great example of this, which only happened a couple weeks ago. I was out to lunch with some people from work on a Friday in Lent and ordered a fish sandwich while passing on every other item that was being passed around and shared (they all had meat). He asked what was up and I said I was Catholic and am abstaining from meat on Fridays during Lent. His response was something like “I’m so glad I don’t have to put up with that anymore since I left the Church.” I asked him what he was doing now, and he replied he was going to a new non-denominational church in town. I responded with something like “I considered leaving one time, too, but after I started learning what the Church really teaches, as I was not taught very well growing up, I just found that the Catholic doctrine makes a lot more sense. I honestly don’t understand how some big aspects of protestant doctrine are reconciled with the Bible.”

His response was: “I’m not protestant – I’m non-denominational.”

Me: “But non-denominational is ostensibly protestant.”

Him (exhasperated): “Oh, you’re not one of those ‘If your’e not Catholic, then you must be a protestant’ ones, are you?!?”

I honestly didn’t know exactly how to respond.

He then said “I didn’t come here to talk religion anyways, so this conversation is over.”

I can only pray for him. He did say that his wife has not left the Church and never will, so I hope she is praying for him, too.

On a side note, I told this story to a friend of mine who is a pastor at an evangelical free church, and he laughed. He said something like “Yes, by definition a non-Catholic christian is protestant.”

This is a good case-in-point of many (certainly not all) people who leave the Church.

Peace,
javelin

 

[Alfie]

Jeanette L:

Actually, besides the internet part ( ), my point was not to compare the numbers really, but to state that this mass migration to Catholicism has generally been unheard of until recently. We know that most Catholics who convert to Protestantism, have not ever known their Catholic faith well to begin with. They are very easily converted because of lack of knowledge and usually are making the move from an emotional encounter (and I’m not saying it was not a genuine encounter).

But those who convert from Protestantism to Catholicism generally do so after much soul searching (knowing the hardship they will endure for this decision) and long study and tend to make these decisions in a much more informed manner. That is what makes these numbers so astounding!

It also explains the extreme and sometimes frantic attacks on Catholicism we see coming from the Fundamentalists and many other Evangelical pupits these days. Much more hateful than they had been for awhile. I think a panic is setting in.

I think it was in the year 1860 that over 700,000 Protestants coverted to Catholicism in the US. The overwhelming numbers being of the Episcopalian persusion. As far as I am concerned they do not count because they are merely watered down Catholics.

Don’t be afraid of the Fundalmentalists and Evangelicals. They only make up about 5% of Protestants. Maybe they just sound louder than other people because they are speaking to your conscious. The truth is not always pleasant to the ears.

I have tried a number of times on this forum to explain that large church membership numbers do not mean squat in a church. If anything that is a danger signal that something is wrong in that church.

If you look at the numbers of Protestant converts in South America it is rather impressive. The reason that Evangelicalism started to catch on in S. America was because of alcohol. The women begain leaving the Catholic church because so many of their men had drinking problems and were neglecting their families. The protestant preachers spoke out against alcohol and closed down some of the bars. That is what attracted some of the women to the protestant church.

This may sound like a really cheap shot to you but I think some Protestants turn Catholic because there is no real condemnation in the Catholic church concerning the use of alcohol. Alcohol is an epidemic in this country and when preachers try to stop it in their churches their members don’t want to hear it. They want to go out and drink like everyone else and that is very sad. The same thing could be said of gambling and protestants. Gambling isn’t condemned in the Catholic church either. Yet, Catholics will claim their religion is more difficult to adhere to. Try not drinking in this society. Talk about frantic attacks. Fundalmentalists attacks are a drop in the bucket compared to the remarks you will get if you refuse to drink.

 

[javelin]

alfie:

Alcohol is an epidemic in this country and when preachers try to stop it…

Jesus drank alcohol, but not to excess. Why ban it completely, on supposed spiritual grounds?

Which do you think is a worse problem in American society today, alcohol abuse, or sexual abuse and promiscuity?

I think more people would say the latter, but bring up a discipline like a celibate life (be it priests or consecrated laypeople) and I guarantee you get more harrassing than if you gave up alcohol completely. Why the double standard?

Peace,
javelin

 

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

If you look at the numbers of Protestant converts in South America it is rather impressive. The reason that Evangelicalism started to catch on in S. America was because of alcohol. The women begain leaving the Catholic church because so many of their men had drinking problems and were neglecting their families. The protestant preachers spoke out against alcohol and closed down some of the bars. That is what attracted some of the women to the protestant church.

That is thier first problem, leaving the Church for an emotional reason, not the reason of truth. Truth comes before emotion.

The Catholic Church recognizes that beer and gambling are bad things if used in excess. Even Jesus drank, and was accussed of being a drunkard. They drank wine in the Bible CONSTANTLY, why is it a bad thing now? It isn’t.

I can spent 7.50 on a movie, or I can spend 7.50 on a slot machine. What is the difference? I spent 7.50 to entertain myself. Just so long as I realize that it is just entertainment. If I was selling my house to gamble with the money, then THAT is a problem, not the gambling itself.

If someone has a problem with drinking or gambling, they need help with that problem. There is not error in doctrine because they have a personal problem.

They closed down the bars? That is a fundamental problem with fundamentalism. Beer and spirits are not evil. Like most things, men make them evil through overuse and abuse. Those bars have just as much right to operate as the churches do.

 

[Alfie]

Unfinished:

That is thier first problem, leaving the Church for an emotional reason, not the reason of truth. Truth comes before emotion.

The Catholic Church recognizes that beer and gambling are bad things if used in excess. Even Jesus drank, and was accussed of being a drunkard. They drank wine in the Bible CONSTANTLY, why is it a bad thing now? It isn’t.

I can spent 7.50 on a movie, or I can spend 7.50 on a slot machine. What is the difference? I spent 7.50 to entertain myself. Just so long as I realize that it is just entertainment. If I was selling my house to gamble with the money, then THAT is a problem, not the gambling itself.

If someone has a problem with drinking or gambling, they need help with that problem. There is not error in doctrine because they have a personal problem.

They closed down the bars? That is a fundamental problem with fundamentalism. Beer and Spirits are not evil. Like most things, men make them evil through overuse and abuse. Those bars have just as much right to operate as the churches do.

What type of people usually gamble and go to bars and drink? The same ones that are having sex outside of marriage.

 

[Unfinished]

Alfie:

What type of people usually gamble and go to bars and drink? The same ones that are having sex outside of marriage.

I enjoy some spirits now and again. I am going to Vegas this summer to spend my hard earned money for some entertainment.

I DO NOT have sex outside of marriage.

Pu-leese. You are reducing the entire human race to irresponsible children.

 

[Alfie]

Unfinished:

I enjoy some spirits now and again. I am going to Vegas this summer to spend my hard earned money for some entertainment.

I DO NOT have sex outside of marriage.

Pu-leese. You are reducing the entire human race to irresponsible children.

Why do you want to economically support a town that was built by organized crime? The hoodlums still run Vegas.